I think you got the GS part wrong, I doubt that any DOS game used this extension.
You can really use whatever high end devices you may have as long as they are GM compatible. I don't see what is supposed to be complicated here.
My guess is that it would just call it sound canvas in game even if in reality it's using the GS extensions, similar to how some games would ask if you had a voodoo 2 card yet work with later cards, or say soundblaster 16 even if it works with the AWE32. This is a really specific question i'm aware, i'm hoping there's an SC-nut who has this info on here. What seems to be important is that the GS standard is designed to be backwards compatible with the SC55 triggering information - or this is how it is in the X68000 world anyways, the 'high end ticket' is a MU2000EX putting out tunes originally set up for the SC55, which is not the same as general midi. Here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsAQQzuSmpw
I know I can use 'high end devices', but that's more general midi. As to why this is just an exploration to understand it better... my 'thing' is extreme fidelity gaming, meaning best possible presentation, similar to how THX home theater setups are trying to create an optimum experience.
is there any way to get MUNT or the Virtual Sound Canvas to work with X68000 emulators and similar?
Munt Reloaded, BASSMIDIDRV, VSC, etc. operate as MIDI drivers in Windows, and any other software (such as emulators) that can interface with host OS MIDI drivers will be able to use them.
Okay, so that provides another option then, provided that whatever emulator I want to run can provide MIDI output. (I think one atari ST one will, not as sure on the others)
I'm wondering if any games on the PC side actually took advantage of the extra sounds and channels
I don't know about CM-64, but there are games that take special advantage of features that the CM-32L has but the MT-32 doesn't.
Yes that's an example, but could you give an example, esp if any are online to hear? I didn't see any remarks to that effect in the wikipedia list.
For the Roland SC-55 my understanding is that it's the support of "Roland GS" that is the important part
No. As far as PC games go, the model is important. This is because game developers of the time were composing MIDI soundtracks on that exact synthesizer, so any quirks or deviations in other supposedly-compatible synthesizers will result in a reproduction that differs from the intention of the composer.
I understand that part, i'm aware there would be a difference, what I meant was whether it should respond to the same triggers. Opposite to how the MT-32 features were NOT emulated in the SC-55, my understanding (based solely upon what I understand from the X68000 boards) is that it was merely a programming of Roland GS commands, along with the specific wavetables in the SC-55. Ie there weren't other "hidden and unemulated commands" like there seems with the MT-32 track playing on a SC-55 because it was not a complete implementation. It SHOULD be a complete implementation on any other Roland GS compatible unit - even if the wavetables differ. Whether those wavetables sound better or not i'm aware will be a matter of personal preference just like it will be with General MIDI, but my point is that there wasn't some unemulated pitch bend command for instance that, given the SC-55 samples, would still sound different.
Not many games used GS-specific features. I'm sure there are some out there, though. Most are probably backwards-compatible with General MIDI to some degree.
But some did. (and i'd love a list of those that did just to test in the future and post my results) And at least on the X68000, the use of those features should work on any sound module with GS-support, not just an SC-55. I'm just trying to find out if there's a reason to believe that the PC or other computers should be different than that.
My setup is:
MIDI: PC USB -> USB-MIDI interface -> SC-88 -> MT-32
Audio: MT-32 -> SC-88 -> PC Line In
I'm assuming that's under DOSBOX which i'd imagine could reroute, what i'm wondering is whether it will be the case under a real DOS PC. But since I remember fiddling around in config screens on old DOS games choosing IRQ's and memory addresses for MIDI configuration I would assume yes - the basic question i'm hoping to verify is on a real DOS PC, hooked to a real hardware MT-32, can I just use any MIDI interface and MIDI cable?
However i'm strongly guessing yes - if SysEx is how all the special programming occurs on the MT-32. (here's an odd thought, could a real DOS PC output MIDI, to a second PC running MUNT? 😜)
I'm pretty sure plugging that into my Kurzweil K2500 will be the best such games have ever sounded.
You should make some recordings and share them with us!
I will! 😀 Just don't currently have the PC working in the studio room, once I get a chance to reinstall stuff to it I thought it'd be neat to do some really high quality renderings to see how they come out. (I have access to some other high end music hardware too but i'm guessing they wont have better general MIDI patches, it's all specialized things like Nord Leads, Moog micromodulars, and and yamaha formant synthesis stuff) Any requests for the soundtracks people would most want to hear? Those who helped me on stuff get first dibs of influence. 😀 (dont turn this into a giant request thread just send me a PM if you remember helping me on X project in any thread you've seen me do, when I eventually get those done i'll set up a requests thread if they turn out well)
The PCM part of the CM-64 doesn't get used in DOS games. As you found, there are Japanese computers that do though. […]
Aaiiiee the whole thread has taken on a life of it's own of opinion! ^@_@^
The PCM part of the CM-64 doesn't get used in DOS games. As you found, there are Japanese computers that do though.
These extra sounds can cause issues in some games, requiring a hacked driver or sending a SySex file to mute the channels.
All in all it's a compromise and you need several modules and versions to be 100% authentic. With the LA synths before General MIDI you really need two: The MT-32 (Old) and CM32-L.
I haven't explored the topics of SC-55 vs SC-55MKII much although I do have both versions. From the forum posts that pop up in my mind I believe the SC-55 "just works" in all games, whereas with the MKII there are a few games that have issues. But again, I haven't looked more closely into this issue.
So a CM-64 might actually cause problems then? Are 'hacked drivers' available for all games where this occurs or no? Does the CM-64 (except for the problems) do all the sounds of the CM32-L or would the pursuit for total perfection require a CM32-L for DOS? (even if I get a CM-64 for x68k)
Yes 100% authenticity is what i'm curious, even if it's overkill, i'm just wondering what would be required. Also curious about enhancements that work which is why i'm not against using a MU2000EX for instance. Are there sounds or options in the SC55 mk2 supported by games which dont exist in the first? If there's issues i'm curious why one would want an mk2 I mean.