VOGONS


Reply 440 of 543, by ahyeadude

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mockingbird wrote on 2023-10-27, 19:51:
ahyeadude wrote on 2023-10-27, 19:21:

To close this loop. I gave up on this particular 386sx motherboard and am using another. The interposer works fine, but just have problems with using ps2suppc.com and the 5434 as referenced above.

I am building a GD5434 ISA and will report back if I have this issue with my 386. I flashed it to Mr. BIOS, so I don't need ps2suppc, but nevertheless.

So, I followed the instructions to modify the AMIBIOS in this thread...

AMI Color BIOS (1993 and earlier) modification in hex editor

Involves flipping a couple of bits. Easy. Works great. No more ps2suppc.com and it works perfectly fine with a 5434!

EhrZoWI.jpg

Reply 443 of 543, by ahyeadude

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maxtherabbit wrote on 2023-10-28, 01:33:

That microid branded KBC is very aesthetic

Haha, it does look pretty cool. But, so does the super slick interposer you designed!

I have parts/boards to make 9 more. Trying to figure out what to do with them. I probably don't have time to build all of them, at least not any time soon.

Reply 444 of 543, by feipoa

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I've been slowly putting together a digikey order and figured I would assemble one of Max's units. Are the latest gerbers and BOM in this thread somewhere?

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 445 of 543, by maxtherabbit

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maxtherabbit wrote on 2023-05-12, 17:34:
Paar wrote on 2022-03-28, 17:01:

In that case it could be better to place all the components on the bottom of the board to get another mm or so. Will probably need to modify it to be usable with my board. The prospect of getting native PS2 support with 486 is a strong one.

I just did a version like that. Passes DRC but hasn't been prototyped yet, so caveat emptor
ps2 interposer v3.zip

These are the latest, I have build a bunch of them since posting that and they are confirmed working

Resistors and caps are 0805 inductors are 1210 inverter is 14-SOIC

Reply 446 of 543, by feipoa

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From the drawing, I see you are using machine pins for the connection to the KBC socket. Did you ever look for something with thinner leads?

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 447 of 543, by ahyeadude

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feipoa wrote on 2023-10-29, 13:33:

From the drawing, I see you are using machine pins for the connection to the KBC socket. Did you ever look for something with thinner leads?

The only other choice I've found is something like this.

http://oshchip.org/products/Flip-Pins_Product.html

They are pricey though. Another option is to replace the DIP-40 socket on the motherboard to a machine pin one.

Reply 448 of 543, by maxtherabbit

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feipoa wrote on 2023-10-29, 13:33:

From the drawing, I see you are using machine pins for the connection to the KBC socket. Did you ever look for something with thinner leads?

No, why would I? 0.50 dia leads fit any socket perfectly without any damage

Last edited by maxtherabbit on 2023-10-30, 15:06. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 449 of 543, by feipoa

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It is difficult for me to gauge if your reply was meant only as snappy rhetoric, or if you really want me to answer why. The objective of my question was to see if you, or anyone, had found some thinner headers, to save myself some effort, regardless of the reasons.

I have not done research on these DIP sockets to see how much deflection they can tolerate and not degrade their spring force. There was a comment in one of the threads that using a square header into a DIP socket is 'way too much deflection'. Not having looked into this, the simplest approach for me is to use headers of thickness similar to the intended use of the keyboard DIP socket. DIP sockets normally anticipate a rod thickness of 0.25 mm. So, if I am using a header of that thickness, I don't have to bother my mind and think any further. Thus, I posted the question.

The thinner machine pins are about 0.50 mm, which is twice the anticipated typical use characteristic of the DIP socket. Some machine pins are thicker, at about 0.62 mm, and square headers are 0.66 mm. Well, someone previously commented that 0.66 mm will deform the spring.

Another characteristic which crossed my mind are that machine pins are round, while DIP sockets are squared. Inserting a round rod into a square, or parallel planer socket will reduce the surface contact area.

It is for these two reasons, that is, rod thickness, and contact geometry, that I have asked if you had sourced thinner headers. The use of 0.5 mm headers may be just fine for you and anyone else, but since I was putting together a digikey order, why don't I look for some thinner ones and of the correct mating geometry. I remember I have some Arduino headers from about 15 years ago; I just measured them and they are 0.38 mm and flat-planar. If I can find them on digikey, I'll order them.

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 450 of 543, by maxtherabbit

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I've tried the flat ones in the past and they did not offer satisfactory mechanical retention. Feel free to do your own research, but once I've found a cost effective product that works effectively in practice I tend to stop there rather than continue down the path of what may be better in theory.

Reply 451 of 543, by mockingbird

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feipoa wrote on 2023-10-30, 07:36:

It is difficult for me to gauge if your reply was meant only as snappy rhetoric, or if you really want me to answer why. The objective of my question was to see if you, or anyone, had found some thinner headers, to save myself some effort, regardless of the reasons.

The short of it is: no. Nothing like that exists, or at least not through the usual channels (for example, checking Newark's pin headers catalog shows nothing of the sort).

What you can do if you want a motherboard with a reversible option (i.e. remove the KBC pcb and go back to just a KBC) is remove the two swipe socket and install a machined hole socket. Then build the KBC PCB with machined pin headers... This way the socket will take both the original KBC and the PCB.

That said, some regular sockets are better than others when it comes to tolerating square pins... On one of my sockets, the double swipe contacts spring back, on another, they are loose like the sleeve of a wizard.

mslrlv.png
(Decommissioned:)
7ivtic.png

Reply 452 of 543, by rasz_pl

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I dont understand the desire for revertability, but if you really worry about original socket on motherboard just sandwich another sacrificial one in between.

Open Source AT&T Globalyst/NCR/FIC 486-GAC-2 proprietary Cache Module reproduction

Reply 453 of 543, by ahyeadude

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mockingbird wrote on 2023-10-30, 22:00:
The short of it is: no. Nothing like that exists, or at least not through the usual channels (for example, checking Newark's pi […]
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feipoa wrote on 2023-10-30, 07:36:

It is difficult for me to gauge if your reply was meant only as snappy rhetoric, or if you really want me to answer why. The objective of my question was to see if you, or anyone, had found some thinner headers, to save myself some effort, regardless of the reasons.

The short of it is: no. Nothing like that exists, or at least not through the usual channels (for example, checking Newark's pin headers catalog shows nothing of the sort).

What you can do if you want a motherboard with a reversible option (i.e. remove the KBC pcb and go back to just a KBC) is remove the two swipe socket and install a machined hole socket. Then build the KBC PCB with machined pin headers... This way the socket will take both the original KBC and the PCB.

That said, some regular sockets are better than others when it comes to tolerating square pins... On one of my sockets, the double swipe contacts spring back, on another, they are loose like the sleeve of a wizard.

Haha, "loose like the sleeve of a wizard". Haven't heard that one before. I'm with you though, I just replace the socket with a machine pin one. Fits new boards and the original DIP pin ICs if you choose to go back.

Reply 454 of 543, by feipoa

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I have something on order that I think will satisfy my requirement. I'll report back when I've assembled a unit, probably within the next 6 weeks.

Re: machine pins
I'd prefer not to desolder the DIP on all my KBC-PS2 suitable motherboards. Also, the female part tends to wear out with multiple insertions, not like that matters much for this scenario. But for PGA CPUs, I've quite a few motherboards with very loose holes from too much of the ole in-and-out.

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 456 of 543, by feipoa

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Three options turn up on eBay for "PGA 168", but they are all LIF.

For ZIF's, I normally pull the top cover and replace the damaged pins from donor boards. I wouldn't mind knowing a source for cheap 486 ZIF's.

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 457 of 543, by maxtherabbit

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feipoa wrote on 2023-10-31, 01:27:

Three options turn up on eBay for "PGA 168", but they are all LIF.

For ZIF's, I normally pull the top cover and replace the damaged pins from donor boards. I wouldn't mind knowing a source for cheap 486 ZIF's.

Thanks. That Polish seller has this type, which is far and away my favourite type of LIF socket

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Reply 459 of 543, by maxtherabbit

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feipoa wrote on 2023-10-31, 02:41:

It is hard to distinguish from the photo if the female contacts are gold plated or tin.

Good catch, they're not. Guess I'll have to go with that segpart guy in USA who has the same style of socket with gold contacts.