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First post, by rgart

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After much indecision I have made an Intel 486DX2-66mhz system. I do have some fond memories of using my 486 back in the early 90's. I loved the early sierra EGA games and the VGA revisions....played the Ultima's to death....

Anyway the hardware is as follows.

Intel 486DX2 66 WB CPU
FOREX 486 (REV. VL3H) VLB/ISA Motherboard
256k 25ns Cache
4 x 4MB (16MB) 30 pin simms Fast Page Ram
S3 805i VLB Video Card 2MB DRAM
Tekram DC-680C Cache Controller with 16MB of DRAM with a 286 CPU (crazy fast)
Gold Star 16-Bit Controller Card (with everything disabled except IDE1 and Com1+Com2)
Creative Sound Blaster 16 CT-1750 (CDROM interface disabled)
Creative Infra CD4820E 48x Cd-rom
400 MB Connor Hard Disk (Master with OS)
Seagate Medalist Jumpered to 2.1GB
Seagate Medalist Jumpered to 2.1GB
Roland MT-32 Sound Module

Here are some photo's of the PC in a modest looking case + hardware.

jKWZWQJ.jpg
jgYPuJi.jpg
2AXAXvu.jpg
c6F3gMC.jpg
ringLlY.jpg
U7M68Bg.jpg
g8FvuOg.jpg

The Tekram card is incredible! It has its own CPU and there is basically no HDD loading at all. The S3 VLB video card is a really solid performing card with excellent compatibility and the 66 MHz CPU runs most games perfectly. This PC is working great ......but there's a couple of things I'm having problems with. Here's the manual:

http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/motherboards/F/FO … ml#.Ue0Utaxc3Fk
http://www.t-zero.org/archive/old_jumpers_pin … m/txt/34238.txt

Two problems as I see it.

1) I'm using a WB 486DX2 66 CPU. However I cant find a WB jumper on the board or a WB setting in the bios. So the L1 is on WT as you can see below.

2) Creative CT-1750 (what a headache) The only reason I use it is because Its connected to a Roland MT-32 and doesn't have any hanging note bugs. The sound card itself is terribly noisy it crackles and clicks.... WORSE than that.......Three of my favorite games are having issues and I can't work out why.....

Monkey Island sounds all messed up. I load it with "monkey v r" for VGA and ROLAND. Every time I load it it sounds different. One day it works. The next it doesn't. Lately the Roland MT-32 doesn't start accepting midi messages until I enter the pirate bar...then it starts receiving and its messed up. I don't hear anything in the intro. (by the way all other games work great)

Serpent Isle Ultima 7: I select Roland and Sound Blaster - Intro plays great. Start the game and when I click "Journey Onwards" I get "Internal stack overflow, System halted"

Ultima Underworld 1 and 2 ..............When I select Roland and Sound Blaster "Internal Stack Overflow"

If I change the Sound Blaster CT1750 for anything else. The games work with the Roland perfectly but I don't have any other Creative cards that work with the Roland Mt32. For example I swapped the CT1750 for a Yamaha YMF18 and connected that to the Roland and I never saw the stack overflow messages - The games worked flawlessly.

It makes no difference if "stacks=0,0" or "stacks=64,512" in config.sys : if its the latter I don't get the stack error...but it still crashes.

The BIOS:

SE4ovX7.jpg
XrlM317.jpg
PyOslq3.jpg
KmMNIHb.jpg

Ultima Underworld

RISg6uV.jpg

Ultima 7 : Serpent Isle

af2uohK.jpg

Hoping you guys can throw some ideas around - help find a solution to both those problems or give me other options. Does anything look out of the ordinary in those pics? A setting perhaps?

Apologies this is long winded.

Last edited by rgart on 2016-05-03, 21:28. Edited 9 times in total.

=My Cyrix 5x86 systems : 120MHz vs 133MHz=. =My 486DX2-66MHz=

Reply 1 of 25, by DonutKing

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I belive write-back cache mode is a feature of the chipset - perhaps your chipset just doesn't support it.

For your problems with Monkey Island, they may be speed related - try disabling turbo mode, or use a utility to disable your cache.

That Tekram card is nice. What does it do exactly, just a caching UDMA IDE controller? Adds LBA mode support? Does it have its own BIOS?

If you are squeamish, don't prod the beach rubble.

Reply 2 of 25, by rgart

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I tried copying monkey island onto the HDD thats not connected to the Tekram....and using the turbo button. Didnt work.
When I had a 33mhz CPU in there the turbo button fixed monkey island. But now with a 66mhz it doesnt.....

I thought monkey island ran fine on my old DX4-100?? Am I mistaken???

The Tekram DC-680C has its own bios and quite a few options. You can mirror drives and it copies a whole hard disk very quickly.
The best part is you can select Primary or Secondary in the Tekram Bios so you can still use other controller cards.

I do a 600mb "xcopy /e" and it takes less than a minute.

Games that smash the hard disk and do a lot of loading like Ultima 7 barely stop to use the hard disk.

It supports 4 Hard Drives but the C revision does not support Cdroms which is a real pain. Hence why I had to use another controller card.

Yes it also supports large drives. It has an option to remap the tracks for drives over 500mb.]

Out of the 2 seagate medalists in there one is a little faster.

5FLrKWU.jpg
ISmxBuI.jpg

Last edited by rgart on 2016-05-01, 21:48. Edited 4 times in total.

=My Cyrix 5x86 systems : 120MHz vs 133MHz=. =My 486DX2-66MHz=

Reply 3 of 25, by GL1zdA

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Very nice. I also own a caching Tekram, took me years to acquire one in Poland. Now I will have to finally put together my VLB/DX2 build.

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Reply 4 of 25, by Anonymous Coward

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Are you using a voltage regulator with your board? WB enhanced chips are all 3.3V, and your board looks like the 5V type.

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V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 5 of 25, by rgart

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haha dont tell me that, no voltage regulator but....its definitely a 5V board. Before installing the CPU I just checked cpu-world for the correct voltage.

Heres the CPU: http://www.cpu-world.com/sspec/SX/SX955.html

SX955 .....5 Volt right?

Last edited by rgart on 2016-04-21, 09:02. Edited 1 time in total.

=My Cyrix 5x86 systems : 120MHz vs 133MHz=. =My 486DX2-66MHz=

Reply 6 of 25, by badmojo

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The Ultima games require intelligent mode MPU-401 don't they? If so then how are you driving the MT-32 with a Sound Blaster? SoftMPU? Ultima patch?

Could that have something to do with the stack overflow?

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Reply 7 of 25, by rgart

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badmofo wrote:

The Ultima games require intelligent mode MPU-401 don't they? If so then how are you driving the MT-32 with a Sound Blaster? SoftMPU? Ultima patch?

Could that have something to do with the stack overflow?

It seems your absolutely right Badmofo!

Update:

When I run day of the tentacle using soundblaster and roland mt-32 it is PERFECT - No drivers
When I run day of the tentacle using SOFTMPU with soundblaster and roland mt-32 ...STACK OVERFLOW

From that Im taking a leap and deducing the STACK OVERFLOW is related to the Roland MT32 Interface.

Monkey Island works perfectly with SOFTMPU.

So this is a bloody Roland Interface issue...

Im going to need a real Roland MPU-401 Interface before I am happy with this.

Am I correct in thinking I need a "MIF-IPC-A" + a breakout box.

Badmofo what are you using to interface your roland MT-32?

=My Cyrix 5x86 systems : 120MHz vs 133MHz=. =My 486DX2-66MHz=

Reply 8 of 25, by badmojo

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rgart wrote:

Badmofo what are you using to interface your roland MT-32?

I have a Roland card (with a breakout box) and a Music Quest MQX32M, both work with Ultima 7.

It took me a while to track them down, but they both came quite cheaply (~15 bucks each) from AU eBay.

Life? Don't talk to me about life.

Reply 9 of 25, by rgart

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CMS CMS-401
CMS CMS-444

Midiman MM-401

Music Quest MQX-16(s)
Music Quest MQX-32(m)

Voyetra V-4000
Voyetra V-4001
Voyetra OP-4001
Voyetra V-22/24

If anyone see's any of these cards for sale on any auction site please let me know.

=My Cyrix 5x86 systems : 120MHz vs 133MHz=. =My 486DX2-66MHz=

Reply 10 of 25, by Mau1wurf1977

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None of the Lucasarts games ever needed an Intelligent Mode MPU401 😀

But I admit that I, and likely nobody else, has tested SoftMPU compatibility with games that work on UART interfaces anyway.

Make sure you post this in the SoftMPU thread.

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Reply 11 of 25, by rgart

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Just for documentation sake; the stack overflow errors were because I didn't use SBMPU401.EXE prior to running the games.
I did end up dropping the CPU speed on this machine to 33mhz for the perfect Ultima 7 experience. Love the Tekram cards - wish mine supported CDROM.

=My Cyrix 5x86 systems : 120MHz vs 133MHz=. =My 486DX2-66MHz=

Reply 12 of 25, by chrisNova777

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sorry whats the purpose of this tekram card??? is it acting as a RAM DRIVE?? im not sure i understand

http://www.oldschooldaw.com | vintage PC/MAC MIDI/DAW | Asus mobo archive | Sound Modules | Vintage MIDI Interfaces
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Reply 13 of 25, by dogchainx

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chrisNova777 wrote:

sorry whats the purpose of this tekram card??? is it acting as a RAM DRIVE?? im not sure i understand

Its a CACHE controller, so the RAM on the card allows caching of data from the hard drive. I'm trying to diagnosing my own Tekram DC-680CD controller and an exact Buslogic version of the card.

386DX-40MHz-8MB-540MB+428MB+Speedstar64@2MB+SoundBlaster Pro+MT-32/MKII
486DX2-66Mhz-16MB-4.3GB+SpeedStar64 VLB DRAM 2MB+AWE32/SB16+SCB-55
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Reply 14 of 25, by soviet conscript

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dogchainx wrote:
chrisNova777 wrote:

sorry whats the purpose of this tekram card??? is it acting as a RAM DRIVE?? im not sure i understand

Its a CACHE controller, so the RAM on the card allows caching of data from the hard drive. I'm trying to diagnosing my own Tekram DC-680CD controller and an exact Buslogic version of the card.

I'm not terribly familiar with these either...so are these just IDE controllers with cache or do you use one of these along side a separate IDE controller to improve performance?

Reply 15 of 25, by ODwilly

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IDE controller with cache. Super fast transfer rates!For a 486 machine at least.

Main pc: Asus ROG 17. R9 5900HX, RTX 3070m, 16gb ddr4 3200, 1tb NVME.
Retro PC: Soyo P4S Dragon, 3gb ddr 266, 120gb Maxtor, Geforce Fx 5950 Ultra, SB Live! 5.1

Reply 16 of 25, by HighTreason

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Indeed. Though I do wonder what their performance advantages are on a machine with an otherwise good IDE interface and a drive capable of exceeding the maximum throughput of the VESA Local BUS at all times. One would imagine that the caching controller would then offer no real advantage (Other than a slight negation of seek wait times)... Could be an interesting test for somebody?

Looks like a pretty nice machine, I'd probably rock something a lot like that if I didn't already have one in that class. The only note I can make regarding your issues are that your L2 Cache chips are a little on the slow side, or they appear to be 25ns to me anyway. The general rule is 15-20ns with 15 being the most common and well behaved. 12ns and even 10ns chips exist but are hard to find and usually expensive, but if you have issues you might be able to score some 15ns ones easily or maybe grab a dead motherboard and steal them from it if you have to resort to extremes for some reason.

* I sure hope that measurement is nanoseconds and not microseconds, or else, in my tired rambling, I have made myself look like an idiot - oh, well, I'm quite good at that by now I expect.

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Reply 17 of 25, by Maraakate

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That case looks great! What is the utility you are using? The monitor looks like it has a nice output too judging from those few pictures as well. How big is it?

Reply 18 of 25, by jesolo

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As for the cracking noises on your Sound Blaster 16, try disabling the high DMA channel (usually channel 5) and only use the low DMA channel (usually channel 1).

Reply 19 of 25, by ynari

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badmojo wrote:

The Ultima games require intelligent mode MPU-401 don't they? If so then how are you driving the MT-32 with a Sound Blaster? SoftMPU? Ultima patch?

Could that have something to do with the stack overflow?

I'm pretty certain I've had Ultima VII running off an AWE32 with an MT32 - I believe it's only some Sierra games that need an intelligent MPU?

edit: see https://github.com/bjt42/softmpu/wiki/Compati … gent-Mode-Games

Ultima VI is the one that needs an intelligent MPU, everything before that doesn't use MIDI, PC speaker only. There are third party patches that add the music from other ports that did have a score back in, but they're comparatively new, so shouldn't need an intelligent MPU either.

Ultima VI didn't use a funky memory manager, so I'd imagine SoftMPU should work..