VOGONS


Reply 20 of 27, by mr_bigmouth_502

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rgart wrote:

I use my PCI based 486 daily. Socket 3 all the way.

grab a Cyrix 5x86 100 and a proven quality ISA/PCI motherboard. Try a bunch of PCI video cards and find one that works well in that particular motherboard.

There is plenty of room to tinker with cyrix enhancements and an ÒC or if your not that way inclined with a bit of tinkering you can have a machine that will play old games like Leisure suit larry EGA plus newer titles like Quake extremely well.

That is pretty much my goal. I wonder though, how does the Cyrix 5x86 stack up against the Am5x86-133 and the Pentium Overdrive? About all I know about it is that it's essentially a 486-level processor with a few Pentium instructions for added compatibility.

Reply 21 of 27, by rgart

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You should read Feipoa's thorough documentation.

there's plenty of documented and proven statistical evidence here on vogons to give you the numbers.

I have found a Cyrix 5x86 120-GP to be faster than the AM5X86 133 ADZ and ADW variants even with an Overclock on the AMD up to 150mhz

The AMD 133 is more convenient because its easier to find and potentially cheaper!

Without referring to Feipoa's PDF files I imagine a Cyrix 5x86 100 with no OC and with btb_en and fp_fast turned on in DOS would stack up closely behind an AMD 133. ( I say closely behind but with branch prediction turned on I don't know)

When you turn branch prediction and fp fast on in dos you are flying.
You'll have a system that can play games as far back as the late 80's all the way through to 1996 + 8/16 bit EMU + MP3's.

I have no experience with POD's though sorry.

=My Cyrix 5x86 systems : 120MHz vs 133MHz=. =My 486DX2-66MHz=

Reply 22 of 27, by mr_bigmouth_502

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I have a box in storage with an Am5x86-133, and honestly the performance on it isn't all that great. I blame it on the motherboard though, since it has some off-brand deal that doesn't even properly support CPUs made past the DX2. I mean, I got the AM5x85 working with a voltage adapter, but the BIOS doesn't recognize it at all, and I distinctly remember another 486 box I had with a DX2-66 running Doom much more smoothly. I did pick up an actual socket 3 board (not a PCI one though) some time ago though, so once I can get back to my grandparents place I'll be able to see what it can actually do.

Come to think about it, aside from a PCI motherboard and a CF card reader, I already have some of the stuff I need. I could sort of do a "test build" using the non-PCI socket 3 board I have, and just throw in the 5x86, a VLB video card, and a random hard drive. I'll need to find an AT power supply too though, or just take an old ATX one and mod it.

Reply 23 of 27, by sunaiac

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Unless you actually want to use a 486 to play MP3 (where a DX4-100 would be enough for 128kbps anyway), early glide games and quake (the three being more academic than useful, since any pentium starting at 90-100MHz will be much cheaper and easier, but I can understand the fun behind it 😉), the DX5 will be as fast as a Cyrix 100, and at 160MHz as fast as a cyrix 133.

That would make it the "easy" way, since its much more common and cheap.
Plus, it's actually a 486, which is important if your goal is to run a 486, not a socket 3.

Last edited by sunaiac on 2013-09-09, 21:51. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 24 of 27, by mr_bigmouth_502

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How would I OC my 5x86 to 160MHz though? I know it can be done, I just don't know how it's done. 😜 As well, I remember reading somewhere that there's an ADZ model and an ADW model, and that the ADZ was better for overclocking. As far as I know though, I think the one I own is an ADW.

MP3 playback would be cool, but I would see no point in doing it on a 486 since it wouldn't be able to support a hard drive large enough for my collection. 🤣 Instead, I think I'll just stick to good old audio CDs. I own plenty of those, and the sound quality is much better than MP3 while requiring only a fraction of the processing power. 😁

Reply 25 of 27, by rgart

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sunaiac wrote:

Unless you actually want to use a 486 to play MP3 (where a DX4-100 would be enough for 128kbps anyway), early glide games and quake (the three being more academic than useful, since any pentium starting at 90-100MHz will be much cheaper and easier, but I can understand the fun behind it 😉), the DX5 will be as fast as a Cyrix 100, and at 160MHz as fast as a cyrix 133.

That would make it the "easy" way, since its much more common and cheap.
Plus, it's actually a 48-, which is important if your goal is to run a 486, not a socket 3.

Unless winamp is lying to me I am playing 256kbps and 320kbps without issues on my 5x86. Possibly downsampling is selected?

Dosamp is pickier with what it can and cant play.

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

How would I OC my 5x86 to 160MHz though? I know it can be done, I just don't know how it's done. 😜 As well, I remember reading somewhere that there's an ADZ model and an ADW model, and that the ADZ was better for overclocking. As far as I know though, I think the one I own is an ADW.

MP3 playback would be cool, but I would see no point in doing it on a 486 since it wouldn't be able to support a hard drive large enough for my collection. 🤣 Instead, I think I'll just stick to good old audio CDs. I own plenty of those, and the sound quality is much better than MP3 while requiring only a fraction of the processing power. 😁

I'm using a 16.95GB SCSI Drive and Windows 98 in my Socket 3 machine. I've also used a 73GB Drive.

I'm not advocating using a 486 or socket 3 machine as an mp3 player. But its good to have that versatility...

I also think you need to clock your AMD 133 @ 200mhz to get close to a Cyrix 5x86 133 in DOS with branch prediction turned on.

I believe some people claim the ADZ variants are best for overclocking while others say the ADW version handles it better.

You just need to change one jumper for the FSB (Front Side Bus) and that will give you an overclock.

I have had a VLB/ISA board with the bus running at 50mhz x 3 CLCK_MUL = 150mhz and the system was amazingly stable!

=My Cyrix 5x86 systems : 120MHz vs 133MHz=. =My 486DX2-66MHz=

Reply 26 of 27, by sunaiac

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rgart wrote:

Unless winamp is lying to me I am playing 256kbps and 320kbps without issues on my 5x86. Possibly downsampling is selected?

Dosamp is pickier with what it can and cant play.

I don't know about the 5x86, that might be possible without downsampling at 133MHz with improvements, since its FPU is buffed.
But the DX4 is OK with 128kbps, more is out of reach without lowering quality somehow. (75-80% CPU usage)

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Reply 27 of 27, by mr_bigmouth_502

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I wonder, are there any good music visualization programs for DOS, like something that will generate visuals from an audio CD or an external audio source?

Also, as cool as it would be to have a "pure" 486 box, I'm going more for the overall "feel" of a 486 machine rather than strictly limiting it to just using a 486-class CPU (though some people may say I'm stretching that thought with a CF card reader 🤣). It's a very subjective thing, but I think that in that case a Cyrix 5x86 might just be a good compromise instead of going with an Am5x86 or a Pentium Overdrive. Again though, I could just keep a few different CPUs around and swap them around depending on feel like doing, at least until I find one that I want to keep in my machine for a longer period of time.

Another thing I just thought of, the Gravis Ultrasound essentially provides hardware acceleration for audio, right? Would there happen to be any programs out there that can play MP3s with the assistance of a GUS?