VOGONS


A tale of two PSUs

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Reply 220 of 472, by keropi

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^ excellent!

here are a bunch of pics of the psu inside the Hyundai XT clone , it really looks an overkill and quality psu. The only damage I see is in the insulation coating of a cap next to the power input. I don't think I'll have to recap this one.

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Reply 222 of 472, by keropi

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yeah, this PSU only needs the fan replacing 😁
I also got a Delta DPS-250AB psu , 250W of ATX power - sadly no -5v line installed . Seems like it has a passive pfc block , I will remove it. The thing is HEAVY and crammed, I can't get good pics of it. Uses Chemicon and Nichicon caps. I think it's a great p4 era psu, I may just use it with a 440BX build or something.

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Reply 224 of 472, by 133MHz

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My guess is that keropi wants to improve airflow (and maybe weight), and since residential customers aren't charged extra for bad power factor by the energy companies, removal of the coil won't make a difference on his monthly electric bill.

http://133FSB.wordpress.com

Reply 226 of 472, by TELVM

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@ Carlostex: Nice recap job on the SS-300FS. respect-048.gif

@ Keropi (Hyundai XT): I don't know if you can trust those Daewoo caps after such a long time. That red polyester cap besides the fuse doesn't look good at all.

@ Keropi (250W): In Delta style that thing is built like a tank! Even the bulk caps are overkill @ 250V rating. 😎

PPFC coils generate extra heat (close to the output filtering caps in this case) and obstruct airflow.

Let the air flow!

Reply 227 of 472, by keropi

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^ hmm... you think the Daewoos need replacing eh? I suppose I don't want low-esr caps there like chemicon KZH/KYA , right?
Also I don't understand what polyester cap I need in order to replace the damaged one... 😒 there weren't any coating pieces in the PSU, I think it's been like that since the beginning 🤣

I've been removing the PFC coils whenever possible, it is my understanding that they don't really offer anything other than adding to the electricity bill...

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Reply 228 of 472, by TELVM

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keropi wrote:

^ hmm... you think the Daewoos need replacing eh?

Wouldn't be surprised if they're not in full health after so much time. I'd put that capacitance/ESR meter of yours into action to be sure.

keropi wrote:

I suppose I don't want low-esr caps there like chemicon KZH/KYA , right?

There's a chance it may oscillate with too low-ESR caps.

keropi wrote:

Also I don't understand what polyester cap I need in order to replace the damaged one...

I spot another red polyester cap, right in front of the rectifier bridge, that might be identical to the damaged one.

Let the air flow!

Reply 229 of 472, by wave

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PPFC has no negative or positive impact on PSU efficiency. APFC on the other side produces heat and lowers efficiency. I have never come across a psu with Passive PFC coil getting noticeably hot.

Reply 230 of 472, by keropi

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I did a test measurement of the old Daewoo caps , a 3300uf/16v (RS series? maybe) one:

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how do you judge it?

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Reply 232 of 472, by keropi

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yeah, it seems I won't have to mess with this PSU... I just replaced the fan with a quiet one and called it a day. I doubt this PSU was even stressed, the 8088 machine only had an ATI cga card and 2x Floppies.
Thanks again for the info TELVM!

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Reply 233 of 472, by TELVM

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An unusual PSU I've just got, Antec CP-850.

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This PSU has the 120mm PWM fan located externally at the front of a wider and taller PSU case (Antec's proprietary CPX format). The combination of large PWM fan enfilading the heatsinks, and low power density from the bigger PSU case makes for superb cooling.

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This thing was manufactured by Delta, so it looks, weighs and is built like a tank, dwarfing standard-size ATX PSUs:

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Manufacturer · · · · · · · · · · · Delta
Certification · · · · · · · · · · · ATX12V 2.3 · EPS12V 2.91 // 80 Plus

PRIMARY__________________________________________________________________________

Topology · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Two-Transistor Forward
Transient Filter · · · · · · · · · · 6x Y-caps, 3x X-caps, 2x ferrite beads, 3x CM chokes, 1x MOV
Bridge Rectifier · · · · · · · · · · 1x LL25XB60 (25A, 600V)
Inrush Current Protection · · · 2x NTC Thermistors (SCK-2R512) with relay (793-P1-A)
PFC · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Active PFC
PFC MOSFETS · · · · · · · · · · · 2x 24N60C3 MOSFETS
PFC Controller · · · · · · · · · · · ICE1PCS02
Bulk Caps · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·3x Elite GM 450V 220uF (85ºC) 22x45mm for 660uF total
Main PWM Switchers · · · · · · ·2x 24N60C3 MOSFETS
PWM Controller · · · · · · · · · · UC3845B

SECONDARY________________________________________________________________________

Independent Regulation
Passive diodes rectification:
+12V · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 5x S60SC6M Schottky 60A
+5V · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 3x STPS30L45CT Schottky 30A
+3.3V · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 3x STPS30L45CT Schottky 30A
-12V · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1x L7912CV Voltage Regulator
Filtering Capacitors:
+12V · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1x Ltec LZG 16V 3300uF 12.5x35mm + 2x Chemicon KZH 16V 2200uF 10x25mm
+5V · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1x Rubycon YXG 16V 2200uF 10x23mm + 1x Ltec LZG 10V 2200uF 10x28mm
+3.3V · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 2x Chemicon KZH 6.3V 3300uF 10x25mm
-12V · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1x Nichicon PW 25V 330uF 8x15mm + 1x Nichicon PW 25V 220uF 8x11.5mm
Supervisor ICs · · · · · · · · · · · · AS339AP-1 LM339AN MC1455P1 LM393N
Fan · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1x 120mm PWM MGT12012XB-W25 (2800rpm, 93cfm, 42dBA, 12V, 0.52A, Ball bearing)

+5VSB_____________________________________________________________________________

PWM/Switching Transistor · · · · Probably from the TinySwitch TNY274-80 family, with heatsink
Rectifier Diode · · · · · · · · · · · 1x STPS2045CT Schottky 20A
Filtering Caps · · · · · · · · · · · · 1x Rubycon ZLH 10V 3300uF 12.5x30mm + 1x AISHI CD288Z 10V 2200uF 10x25mm

Inside there is a two PCB layout, with most of the input filtering, the inrush protection and the APFC coil on the smaller top PCB:

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I love this piece of attention to aerodynamics, a well profiled airflow guide to force the flow down into the heatsinks so that no cool air is wasted:

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The input filtering. Two ferrite beads, six Y-caps, three X-caps, three chokes, two NTC thermistors in series controlled by a relay, and one oversized rectifier bridge:

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The main PCB, about the size of an aircraft carrier's flying deck 🤣 :

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Topology is relatively classic and simple. Double transistor forward, old style independent regulation (three toroid coils on the secondary), and passive rectification with Schottky diodes.

The three bulk caps are 22mm 'Elites' rated for only 85ºC, definitely mediocre stuff but they should last a while inside this particular PSU with its great cooling:

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The PFC and PWM main switchers on the primary heatsink:

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I've seen gutless wonders whose main transformers were not as big as the one this PSU uses for +5VSB 🤣 :

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^ Underside that 'S' shaped aluminium heatsink just above the white glue blob resides the +5VSB PWM/switching controller, probably from the TinySwitch TNY274~280 family. As long as the PSU is plugged to the wall and switched on, the +5VSB rail will be always hot, and when the computer is turned off the fan is stopped and the +5VSB stuff can only be cooled by whatever passive convection is available, so placing a heatsink on the +5VSB controller makes a lot of sense if we think about it ...

50V Panasonic FCs have replaced the small Taicon and Ltec caps on the +5VSB circuit:

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+5VSB output filtering came with one 12.5mm Rubycon ZLH 10V 3300uF and one 'AISHI CD288Z' 10V 2200uF. I've replaced the late with a Panasonic FR 10V 2200uF:

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Subtle example of Delta over-engineering, there are THIRTEEN items on the secondary heatsink:

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^ Five Schottky rectifiers (in TO-247 size) for +12V, three each for +5V and +3.3V, one for +5VSB, and one voltage regulator for -12V.

The +12V output is filtered by one 12.5mm 16V 3300uF cap (originally Ltec LZG), two PI coils, and two Chemicon KZH 16V 2200uF:

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^ One 12.5mm Panasonic FM 16V 3300uF has replaced the Ltec.

On the +5V rail there were one Rubycon YXG 16V 2200uF, one PI coil, and one Ltec LZG 10V 2200uF, the latter having been replaced by one Panasonic FR 10V 2200uF:

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+3.3V is in charge of two Chemicon KZH 6.3V 3300uF:

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Finally the -12V rail is filtered by two Nichicon PW, one 25V 330uF and one 25V 220uF:

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Again courtesy of Delta, voltage regulation and ripple were exceptional for 2009 and still very good by today standards.

This PSU is rated a plain 80+, but up to 80% load behaves like an 80+ Bronze, and on 230VAC efficiency peaks at about ~88%.

Back in the day reviews of the Antec CP-850 by Hardware Secrets, JonnyGURU and SPCR.

Let the air flow!

Reply 235 of 472, by Skyscraper

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Here are 4 pictures showing the inside of a 25 year old Moretec MP-200W AT PSU from a 12 MHz Moretec 286 system.

As Im going to use the Moretec case for a 486 build Im leaning twords using this PSU aswell. If anyone can spot some reason why this is going to end in tears (or sparks/flames/white smoke) please tell and I will use one of my other probably just as bad but a few years newer crusty AT PSUs instead.

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Last edited by Skyscraper on 2015-10-17, 15:47. Edited 1 time in total.

New PC: i9 12900K @5GHz all cores @1.2v. MSI PRO Z690-A. 32GB DDR4 3600 CL14. 3070Ti.
Old PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6GHz, EVGA SR-2, 48GB DDR3R@2000MHz, Intel X25-M. GTX 980ti.
Older PC: K6-3+ 400@600MHz, PC-Chips M577, 256MB SDRAM, AWE64, Voodoo Banshee.

Reply 237 of 472, by Skyscraper

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wave wrote:

I see Rubycon and Panasonic capacitors there! This is definitely a decent psu of its age...

After some some quick Googling from what I can tell it seems Moretec actually built their own PSUs. The whole system was made up of quility parts, the HDD was a Kyocera 40MB IDE unit, the floppy drives were both Mitsumi and the motherboard used the well-regarded "Neat" chipset.

Im going to put some load on PSU and see if the rails hold up. With low load everythng looked fine when poking around with my multimeter. 😀

New PC: i9 12900K @5GHz all cores @1.2v. MSI PRO Z690-A. 32GB DDR4 3600 CL14. 3070Ti.
Old PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6GHz, EVGA SR-2, 48GB DDR3R@2000MHz, Intel X25-M. GTX 980ti.
Older PC: K6-3+ 400@600MHz, PC-Chips M577, 256MB SDRAM, AWE64, Voodoo Banshee.

Reply 239 of 472, by PCBONEZ

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Nahkri wrote:
I bought this Antec EarthWatts 380 w from a flea market,but it doesn't work,i opened it up,the seal was intact,it doesn't seem […]
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I bought this Antec EarthWatts 380 w from a flea market,but it doesn't work,i opened it up,the seal was intact,it doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it no bulging caps,no burn marks or smell,nothing.
It's weird i had cheaper powersupply with bulging and even liquid flown out of the caps and the ps still worked,this 1 seems ok and it doesn't run.
Only two things i spotted different from usual it's the colour of the fuse,usually they transparent,this 1 is white and there is also a cable missing from the 20 pin atx conector.
Here are some pics.

~~ I removed the images to save space in the thread - refer back to Nahkri's post. » 2014-7-29 @ 07:55 ~~

You photos show that PSU is loaded with OST caps.
OST caps are famous for failing without bloating or leaking.
Bad caps is a common problem with the Earthwatts 380w and 430w models. I've seen inside 8 or 10 and recapped some for use.
Often the 380w/430w are full of CapXon rather than OST caps and those are just as unreliable.
These work fine with a re-cap using good caps although some of the can sizes are tough to find in caps with appropriate ESR.

I have not found an Earthwatts 500w (up) model that shares that problem.
I've looked inside all three 500w versions and probably 25 units in total.
The 500w Earthwatts have been problem free for me and I've used many of them.

I've seen 3 or 4 of the 650w and 1 or 2 of the 750w. While I don't remember caps issues I don't care for them.
The 650w in particular seems suffer from an inductive kick. (When it shuts-down IIRC.)
Basically at some point (starting or shutting down I don't recall) there seemed to be a voltage spike on the +12v rail which 'kicks' the fan.
(Don't recall for sure if the 750w did that too but I think it did. The 750w just didn't seem 'heavy enough' to me to be a good 750w.)

I've never seen inside one of the newer 550w Earthwatts so I can't say anything about that one.

The Earthwatts 500w (and occasionally Earthwatts 380w-430w with the caps replaced) are the only Antecs I'll use.
(When I need more juice I usually choose specific Corsair models.)

In general I've never been impressed with Antec. Either their products or the company.
I've had or have seen too many bad experiences with them including a company hired troll who called himself "Antec-Rep" (or something like that).
He/she frequented enthusiast social media sites (mostly forums like this) to promote Antec PSU's.
I ran into him at Badcaps.net and at Experts-Exchange among other places.
.

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