It's the same with AWE 64 Value and AWE 64 Gold, very little difference in practice (especially on the AWE64's as very few uses the RAM to load soundfonts when everyone have SC55's)

Well that's a relief... Looks like I'll use this thing after all, much thanks for clarifying.

I hope I can get some sort of MIDI out of it's gameport, since I read online you can make a MIDI interface work though gameports but I'm not sure getting such things going smoothly over DOS.

I have a couple of Vibra16's with a real OPL3 and think they're a great card, but I shelved them because of the hanging note bug, which all of the Vibras seem to have. So yes you can get MIDI going out of the game port, but be aware that you might get the odd stuck note.

It's not a big deal really and I hope I haven't complicated things unnecessarily, but personally I prefer a CT2230 or CT2290 when I'm in the market for a SB16. But also be aware that creative cards in general have an issue with their MPU interface which causes stuttering in some games, like build engine games, tie fighter, etc.

I have complicated things haven't I? I'm sorry! Hopefully those issues don't impact ImpulseTracker.

Not at all. I just think it'd be more convenient to use a MIDI keyboard controller within the tracker but I've been using the usual QWERTY keyboard for it for years so if I can't get MIDI-IN to work at all, oh well. What matters is if I can actually use the SB16 driver it has with it.

I have two cards and they work very well. The installation is somewhat easier. Although they don't have jumpers they don't need CTCM. The cards can be easily reconfigured by running DIAGNOSE or whatever that utility is called that ends up in the C:\SB16 folder 😀

Here you can change IRQ and DMA or turn of the MPU401 if you use another one.

vetz wrote:

It's the same with AWE 64 Value and AWE 64 Gold, very little difference in practice (especially on the AWE64's as very few uses the RAM to load soundfonts when everyone have SC55's)

bad analogy
the AWE64 standard, AWE64 value, and AWE64 Gold all do not use the Vibra16 chip, they use the old style CT1745A DSP, but the AWE64 Gold uses the better "SBP" variant and no amplifier (both of which contribute to the better SNR), gimicky gold plated connectors, RCA audio out instead of 3.5mm mini jack, SPDIF output, and 4MB RAM... AWE64 standard has 1MB, and I believe the value has 512k or no RAM, regular 3.5mm mini jack output, normal tin plated connectors, no SPDIF output

there's a big difference between the vibra16 and SB16... the vibra16 is a smaller form factor, is more integrated, designed and works well as on board audio... because it is a newer design, it also has a better SNR (cleaner audio)... yes, there's no treble and bass control, but people don't really miss that when they have good speakers with discrete EQ controls... yes, it is stripped down and doesn't allow you to upgrade... but if you're going to upgrade nowadays, you wouldn't be because you'll just get a better creative ISA card with the features you want and be done with it... it's not the 90s any more where sound cards were expensive and upgrading was an attractive feature

there are some early vibra16 cards that are non-PnP... those are hard to come by because creative didn't make those for long before jumping on the PnP bandwagon... personally, I prefer to avoid ISA PnP or anything PnP from the 90s for that matter because they are a pain to set up right and there's all sorts of configuration headaches because 95/98 is just stupid dealing with them

The model number on my VIBRA16 is CT2260, and the YMF262 chip says: Yamaha OPL YMF262-M 9502 FABC so I suppose this is a legit OPL3. The DAC for the OPL3 chip is: YAC512-M 504CC

I'm only going to be booting MS-DOS 6 on the machine I'll be putting this in, so does PnP even still matter to me? PnP was a windows deal wasn't it?

I also see three Phillips electronics chips two big ones and a smaller one, I don't suppose these are the gameblaster chips are they?

I would upload a photo of the card but I'm on really awful internet right now...

The configuration procedure differs for true PnP cards in DOS - you have to run the creative PnP config stuff first or DOS won't be able to 'see' the card. From memory it's called CTCM.

Hopefully you won't need that though, my Vibra16's only need a SET BLASTER line, followed by a call to diagnose.exe.

And no, game blaster functionality was long gone by the time these cards were produced.

Don't be scared by PnP. The prcoedure is not difficult, you need to files from the Creative site: CTCM and SBBASIC

Und INSTALL.EXE from SBBASIC and off it goes.

To change resources you later go into C:\CTCM and run CTCU

I made a video guide about this a while ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9GSYgarPs4

Don't forget there's also different revisions of the Vibra 16 chip. I'd steer well clear of any card with the Vibra 16xv. That chip just sounds awful with everything.

Some Vibra based cards have daughterboard header. CT2940 being one of them.

While CT2940 is good otherwise (really clean output and some cards have discrete OPL, probably the best of the vibra cards) it unfortunately suffers badly from hanging note issues.

By hanging notes does this also affect MIDI-IN? since that's all I'm going to attempt to use in impulsetracker, not MIDI-OUT.

If that's the case is there any way I could get a much more reliable MIDI-IN, through the UART on a PC or something? Or do I really need to get a MPU-401?

Good question! I'd imagine it'll probably be fine, let us know how you get on.

If it does turn out to be an issue you could get an AWE64 or a Yamaha YMF card, both are cheap bug-free options.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Don't be scared by PnP. The prcoedure is not difficult, you need to files from the Creative site: CTCM and SBBASIC […]
Show full quote

Don't be scared by PnP. The prcoedure is not difficult, you need to files from the Creative site: CTCM and SBBASIC

Und INSTALL.EXE from SBBASIC and off it goes.

To change resources you later go into C:\CTCM and run CTCU

I made a video guide about this a while ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9GSYgarPs4

meh
I'd take a non-PnP SB16 any day... resources are precious in DOS and the last thing I need is to load yet another driver to initialize a PnP card

I disagree as with PnP you can have several devices in the machine and initialise whatever card you need when you need it. I'm also not sure what resources you talk about. Initialisation <> loading a driver.

badmojo wrote:

I have a couple of Vibra16's with a real OPL3 and think they're a great card, but I shelved them because of the hanging note bug, which all of the Vibras seem to have. So yes you can get MIDI going out of the game port, but be aware that you might get the odd stuck note.

It's not a big deal really and I hope I haven't complicated things unnecessarily, but personally I prefer a CT2230 or CT2290 when I'm in the market for a SB16. But also be aware that creative cards in general have an issue with their MPU interface which causes stuttering in some games, like build engine games, tie fighter, etc.

I have complicated things haven't I? I'm sorry! Hopefully those issues don't impact ImpulseTracker.

The hanging note happens only when you play digital audio and midi at the same time.
Also, the hanging note happens only in certain DSP revesions. DSP 4.11, 4.12, and 4.13
DSP revision can be checked via diagnose.exe in DOS. It will show the revision.

DSP 4.13 isn't as prone of hanging notes as 4.11 and 4.12, but it still can happen

I looked everywhere on VOGONS and I can't seem to find an answer to my question.

This may be a stupid newbie question but here it goes...how do I tell what DSP revision my SB card is? Can I tell by just looking at it or will I have to install it and run some program?

Thanks in advance