VOGONS


Reply 21 of 73, by leileilol

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I always thought "Quake3 supports HW T&L" to be a myth, IMO. It does use complied vertex arrays if you use r_primitives 2 however. Perhaps that's where the whole T&L placebo comes from, and I never had any miraculous performance jump with that...

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Reply 22 of 73, by LunarG

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Been having some funny behavior from my K6-2 system, and it appears to be caused by using 80-lead UDMA66 ribbon cables. I just swapped to older style 40-lead ribbons, and the system appears to behave better. We'll see. Hopefully I'll be able to run some UTBench tonight.

WinXP : PIII 1.4GHz, 512MB RAM, 73GB SCSI HDD, Matrox Parhelia, SB Audigy 2.
Win98se : K6-3+ 500MHz, 256MB RAM, 80GB HDD, Matrox Millennium G400 MAX, Voodoo 2, SW1000XG.
DOS6.22 : Intel DX4, 64MB RAM, 1.6GB HDD, Diamond Stealth64 DRAM, GUS 1MB, SB16.

Reply 23 of 73, by rick6

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Well i'm already doing the new chart and i'm doing the benchmark that noshutdown advised, and God it's a real cpu hog. Actually it is a all system hog. Just for fun i tried first on my main computer which is a i5 750 at 3,8ghz with an ATI 7870 at stock and i only scored 129,9 fps with everything on high at 1920x1080. On the AMD k6-2 with the Geforce SDR (drivers 28.32) with everything at low i could only get 5,9fps 😁
Can't wait untill the chart is done. Might take a bit more time since and playing "Burial at the Sea episode 2" at night and i work at day, so give me a week or so to finish it 😀

My 2001 gaming beast in all it's "Pentium 4 Williamate" Glory!

Reply 24 of 73, by LunarG

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I got some results for UT on Voodoo 2 12MB and Matrox Millennium G400MAX. I think the 350MHz CPU is bottlenecking them both quite severely though, but I'll post my results tomorrow.
Going to see if I can do Q3A benchmarks as well tomorrow.

WinXP : PIII 1.4GHz, 512MB RAM, 73GB SCSI HDD, Matrox Parhelia, SB Audigy 2.
Win98se : K6-3+ 500MHz, 256MB RAM, 80GB HDD, Matrox Millennium G400 MAX, Voodoo 2, SW1000XG.
DOS6.22 : Intel DX4, 64MB RAM, 1.6GB HDD, Diamond Stealth64 DRAM, GUS 1MB, SB16.

Reply 26 of 73, by Putas

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leileilol wrote:

I always thought "Quake3 supports HW T&L" to be a myth, IMO. It does use complied vertex arrays if you use r_primitives 2 however. Perhaps that's where the whole T&L placebo comes from, and I never had any miraculous performance jump with that...

I thought the transformations go to hardware automatically, and perhaps even the vertex lighting, if lightmaps are disabled like low quality setting should done. perhaps the Nvidia's high poly level would show biggest difference.
I remember Radeons had a registry to disable TCL, should be easy to test.

Reply 27 of 73, by LunarG

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Here are some preliminary results from UT on stock speed K6-2 350MHz. It seems to be running happily on 400MHz though, so I might just go through these tests again to see if there is any notable improvement.

UT_K6_2.png

The 1024x768 tests can not, as most people probably know, be run on a single Voodoo 2.
My G400MAX scored a bit over 3300 in 3DMark2000 on my Pentium III 800 (EB), so clearly the K6-2 is holding it back.

WinXP : PIII 1.4GHz, 512MB RAM, 73GB SCSI HDD, Matrox Parhelia, SB Audigy 2.
Win98se : K6-3+ 500MHz, 256MB RAM, 80GB HDD, Matrox Millennium G400 MAX, Voodoo 2, SW1000XG.
DOS6.22 : Intel DX4, 64MB RAM, 1.6GB HDD, Diamond Stealth64 DRAM, GUS 1MB, SB16.

Reply 28 of 73, by NitroX infinity

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If your K6-2 is up to it, may I suggest 450MHz? That way you can compare it at equal speeds to the fastest Pentium 2 and slowest Pentium 3, should you want to do that some time.

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Reply 29 of 73, by LunarG

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NitroX infinity wrote:

If your K6-2 is up to it, may I suggest 450MHz? That way you can compare it at equal speeds to the fastest Pentium 2 and slowest Pentium 3, should you want to do that some time.

I'm not sure my cooling is adequate. I also don't have any way of checking the temperature of the CPU, so I'm a bit worried about overclocking it much, but I might give it a go.

WinXP : PIII 1.4GHz, 512MB RAM, 73GB SCSI HDD, Matrox Parhelia, SB Audigy 2.
Win98se : K6-3+ 500MHz, 256MB RAM, 80GB HDD, Matrox Millennium G400 MAX, Voodoo 2, SW1000XG.
DOS6.22 : Intel DX4, 64MB RAM, 1.6GB HDD, Diamond Stealth64 DRAM, GUS 1MB, SB16.

Reply 30 of 73, by noshutdown

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NitroX infinity wrote:

If your K6-2 is up to it, may I suggest 450MHz? That way you can compare it at equal speeds to the fastest Pentium 2 and slowest Pentium 3, should you want to do that some time.

3dfx is the only savior of k6-2. with nvidia and ati cards, even my k6-3+550 got smoked by celeron300a oc 450.

Reply 31 of 73, by Firtasik

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leileilol wrote:

if you use r_primitives 2.

I've discovered recently that Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory is running slow on my Radeon HD 5770 without this command.

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Reply 32 of 73, by LunarG

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Tried running it at 450MHz with stock voltage, and got no signal to the screen. Switched it back down to 400MHz and can't get beyond POST. Turn it off, unplug it, press power switch to discharge caps. Replug and switch on. Boots at 400MHz. I could try to turn the voltage up, but since this is old hardware and might be difficult to replace should something go wrong (at least the nice motherboard), I'm not sure I'm too happy about starting the whole overvolting trial and error process. I'm happy running it modestly overclocked at stock voltage, but not sure I wanna go beyond that.

WinXP : PIII 1.4GHz, 512MB RAM, 73GB SCSI HDD, Matrox Parhelia, SB Audigy 2.
Win98se : K6-3+ 500MHz, 256MB RAM, 80GB HDD, Matrox Millennium G400 MAX, Voodoo 2, SW1000XG.
DOS6.22 : Intel DX4, 64MB RAM, 1.6GB HDD, Diamond Stealth64 DRAM, GUS 1MB, SB16.

Reply 33 of 73, by rick6

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LunarG wrote:
Here are some preliminary results from UT on stock speed K6-2 350MHz. It seems to be running happily on 400MHz though, so I migh […]
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Here are some preliminary results from UT on stock speed K6-2 350MHz. It seems to be running happily on 400MHz though, so I might just go through these tests again to see if there is any notable improvement.

UT_K6_2.png

The 1024x768 tests can not, as most people probably know, be run on a single Voodoo 2.
My G400MAX scored a bit over 3300 in 3DMark2000 on my Pentium III 800 (EB), so clearly the K6-2 is holding it back.

Great work! I would really like to see the difference from 350mhz to 400mhz, that is if you're willing to risk it. Doing it at 450mhz won't be all that relevant i think and isn't worthy the risk of killing your hardware (i also can't monitor my cpu temperature with this board so i won't go beyond 500mhz)!
By the way, i'm getting some results from the driver 28.32 and got some very interesting differences from my first results. Problem is that i can't disable vsync at driver level, i just can't find the option anywhere! If this persists i'm only going to run vsync off on UT since it's is easy to disable vsync by modifying the UnrealTournament.ini file (eitherway i don't really believe results from synthetic benchmarks and quake3 would change much with vsync off at driver level).

My 2001 gaming beast in all it's "Pentium 4 Williamate" Glory!

Reply 34 of 73, by LunarG

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I got Q3 sorted today, had to find the right patch to make it run on Windows 98se. For some reason it won't let me swap from "default" rendering and to Voodoo. Not sure why.
Going to get some benchmarks done tomorrow. I'll re-run the UT ones at 400MHz, which seems to be running completely stable.

WinXP : PIII 1.4GHz, 512MB RAM, 73GB SCSI HDD, Matrox Parhelia, SB Audigy 2.
Win98se : K6-3+ 500MHz, 256MB RAM, 80GB HDD, Matrox Millennium G400 MAX, Voodoo 2, SW1000XG.
DOS6.22 : Intel DX4, 64MB RAM, 1.6GB HDD, Diamond Stealth64 DRAM, GUS 1MB, SB16.

Reply 35 of 73, by swaaye

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G400 Max is faster than Voodoo3 3500 and TNT2 Ultra with enough CPU behind it (say a P3 600). It's entertaining to see Voodoo2 beating it. Good work, AMD K6-2.

Firtasik wrote:
leileilol wrote:

if you use r_primitives 2.

I've discovered recently that Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory is running slow on my Radeon HD 5770 without this command.

You can also rename the game's exe to quake3.exe to fix this. This must enable an AMD app profile for quake3. I guess they didn't bother to set something like that up for other Quake3-based games. This has been a problem for several years.

Reply 36 of 73, by gerwin

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swaaye wrote:

You can also rename the game's exe to quake3.exe to fix this. This must enable an AMD app profile for quake3. I guess they didn't bother to set something like that up for other Quake3-based games. This has been a problem for several years.

I found using "MOHAA.exe" (Medal of Honour - Allied Assault) works well for Call of Duty 1 on XP. One has to remember these things...

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Reply 37 of 73, by swaaye

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gerwin wrote:

I found using "MOHAA.exe" (Medal of Honour - Allied Assault) works well for Call of Duty 1 on XP. One has to remember these things...

Or just buy a NVIDIA card. I run a 560 Ti and a 6950 and really you want NVIDIA if you're gonna play any OpenGL game (old or new).

Reply 38 of 73, by gerwin

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Maybe, but after several days of being annoyed by particular AMD drivers, Eventually I found a driver combination and some tweaks that made the Radeon 6000 series work very well with the whole bunch of old games. XWA/UT99/COD1/IL2-FB/Populous3/SF1/SF2... I nearly gave up though, it was not pleasant.
Back then the nvidia solder debacle was also still fresh in my memory. I recall the XWA fixes only applied to AMD, not to Nvidia.
There is also Intel HD, but for some reason the intel HD drivers have zero options.

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Reply 39 of 73, by leileilol

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LunarG wrote:

I got Q3 sorted today, had to find the right patch to make it run on Windows 98se. For some reason it won't let me swap from "default" rendering and to Voodoo. Not sure why.

Try manually setting r_glDriver to 3dfxvgl (or 3dfxogl in some cards).

All versions of Q3 should work on 98se. Ioq3 doesn't and would need KernelEx to run (because of PSAPI usage and Winsock2 getprocaddr usage making it require XP at the minimum) - and by the way, that engine removes r_glDriver, WGL_3dfx_gamma_control and vendor-specific fixes so it's not really optimal or recommended on older hardware - so I hope you're not using Ioq3.

Last edited by leileilol on 2014-03-27, 21:11. Edited 1 time in total.

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