Well, I'm pretty sure someone (like StarTech) will build a VGAtoDP scaler or something like that. The only problem is that something like that could produce more input lag.

5u3 wrote:

jwt27 wrote:

120 and 144Hz IPS panels are already available: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/acer_xb270hu.htm http://www.tftcentral.co.uk […]
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120 and 144Hz IPS panels are already available:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/acer_xb270hu.htm
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/news_archive/33.htm
http://www.blurbusters.com/overclock/120hz-14 … p-ips-monitors/

I'm curious to see how these perform in 320x200@70Hz.

No analogue VGA input 😢

True.. though the Asus screen has a HDMI port, which ought to work with a passive DVI-I -> HDMI adapter plug.

I was paging through the ROG SWIFT PG278Q's manual and this caught my eye:

Looks like DOS gamers are out of luck... Although, we won't know unless we try.

Yeah, you can forget about G-Sync monitors for retro purposes, because the G-Sync module replaces the input logic and scaler found in a traditional monitor.

It's got to have a VGA port. But they are disappearing fast. Smaller and cheaper screens still have them. Some very screens still come with only VGA, so we still have a bit of time 😀

But it seems that the latest and greatest screens are ditching VGA.

Well, when you consider how much better quality output you get with digital connections, you can't really blame them.

5u3 wrote:

Yeah, you can forget about G-Sync monitors for retro purposes

Well, not for emulators. I've heard some really great things on the MAME and MESS front with G-Sync monitors, for instance. But hooking up to retro computers? yeah not this time.

Evert wrote:

Well, when you consider how much better quality output you get with digital connections, you can't really blame them.

On the monitor side, yes. But I don't see what Ati had to gain by entirely removing VGA from their graphics cards.

jwt27 wrote:

On the monitor side, yes. But I don't see what Ati had to gain by entirely removing VGA from their graphics cards.

You got me there... I don't know.

So, I decided to do a bit of contributing to the thread. I connected my Socket 7 PC (it has an AGP Radeon 7000VE) to my Dell U2713HM through a DVI connection and I decided to play a bit of Blood. Well, strangely enough, through the DVI connection the monitor seems to render 320x200, 320x240, 640x400, 640x480 and 1024x768 at 1280x1024@75Hz. I took some photos, pardon the quality:

Blood:

Windows 98SE Desktop (1024x768):

Stiletto wrote:

5u3 wrote:

Yeah, you can forget about G-Sync monitors for retro purposes

Well, not for emulators. I've heard some really great things on the MAME and MESS front with G-Sync monitors, for instance. But hooking up to retro computers? yeah not this time.

Hmm. Never considered this, but makes a lot of sense!

philscomputerlab wrote:

Stiletto wrote:

5u3 wrote:

Yeah, you can forget about G-Sync monitors for retro purposes

Well, not for emulators. I've heard some really great things on the MAME and MESS front with G-Sync monitors, for instance. But hooking up to retro computers? yeah not this time.

Hmm. Never considered this, but makes a lot of sense!

Yep. MAME/MESS went through a lot of work to ensure that it generates the exact video signal timings of the arcade/console/computers it emulates. Still a bit to do but many output video at not just proper resolution but also the refresh rates, etc. Sometimes this is really bizarre refresh rates, which can cause some sort of lag when on a mismatched computer monitor. You'd have to use some unofficial build to get exact 60Hz (or whatever) output, which often messes with video or audio accuracy. There are some custom builds that do what they can to nullify this lag too (GroovyMAME, RetroArch etc.) but with a G-Sync monitor or something like it (ATI seems to be instead pushing forward some VESA extension - maybe the wrong acronym - which will be embraced industry-wide) you can have exact refresh rates, essentially.

At the same time, MAME/MESS tends not to support platform-specific hacks or patches so explicit G-Sync support is probably not a thing. As far as I know, though, there's not much you have to do to make an app G-Sync supported, it just automagically is. As far as G-Sync's signal detection, it should in theory work okay without explicit support. That's about all I know, there's some end-user-level discussion in the past over at MAMEWorld Forums.

I always struggled to get applications to set a certain refresh rate. I believe in modern Windows, unless there is a custom resolution / refresh rate defined, an application can't just, on it's own, output at a certain resolution and refresh rate.

Because modern monitors have no issue displaying a range of refresh rates. For example my Samsung monitor can do 75 Hz at Full HD, but needs a custom resolution for this.

So not sure how MAME, as an example, outputs let's say 60.2 Hz. It's easy to create a custom resolution doing this, but you would have to create one for each possible refresh rate that MAME could use. I'm sure that's not how it's done. But I haven't been doing much with MAME lately to be honest.

I miss the old emulators that ran under DOS. It outputted at whatever refresh rate it needed to 😀

Some monitors have a built-in setting called "aspect" to stretch any resolution to the maximum allowed size, while maintaining the correct aspect. And being built into the monitor, it does not depend on video drivers, and works for every application, every OS, and even BIOS and DOS.

My DELL U2410 has such a setting. I just verified that it displays the correct aspect for the BIOS screen, the DOS command prompt, as well as two select games - Skyroads, and DOOM. The image fills the screen vertically, without stretching horizontally (centered, with black bars at both sides).

I know some other DELL monitors that are considered "high-end" have this "aspect" feature. U2413, U2711 and U3011 come to mind. Some others do not have an automatic "aspect" setting, but do have individual settings for 4:3 (and sometimes even 5:4). The downside is that the setting has to be manually adjusted every time the aspect of the displayed image changes.

IMPORTANT EDIT:
It has been discovered through a sad experience that what I said here may not be accurate. While the monitor's aspect setting does work, the culprit is that some video cards may not actually output a 4:3 resolution in DOS/BIOS,making this feature useless. The conclusion is that it is actually better, for DOS, to get a monitor that has the ability to force 4:3.

For more details consult this post:
Re: Widescreen monitors and 4:3 aspect ratio compatibility thread

dr_st wrote:

Some monitors have a built-in setting called "aspect" to stretch any resolution to the maximum allowed size, while maintaining the correct aspect. And being built into the monitor, it does not depend on video drivers, and works for every application, every OS, and even BIOS and DOS.

Unfortunately, this is not true for many screens, even those which have "aspect ratio correction" on their feature list. In many cases the aspect ratio correction only works for VESA SVGA modes, but not in standard EGA/VGA/text modes. Some monitors only support aspect ratio correction on video inputs (composite/S-video/RGB/HDMI), but not on connectors designed for computer input (VGA/DVI), because nowadays you are supposed to use the aspect ratio correction offered by modern video card drivers. It is generally rather difficult to find out about the true capabilities of a monitor without trying it out yourself.

Bit of an update. Now I don't have such a monitor, but when browsing around the net I noticed that Benq gaming monitors have extensive display and scaling mode options. Of particular interest is not the "aspect ratio" mode, which many other brands have, but the 1:1 mode. Now I couldn't test it, so I asked on another forum for help, and someone tested this on a XL2410T.

With VGA and at various resolutions, the monitor can indeed display a 1:1 pixel mapped image with black bars all around. Now on a 27" model this might actually be usable for 1024 x 768 for example.

Anyway, just something that might be worth checking out and worth considering if you happen to be in the market for a new Monitor.

I've got a Benq XL2420T and I can vouch for it. I've been using it set as a 19" 4:3 monitor for DOS games using modes that do not have square pixels. The only thing I miss is a bigger 4:3 option. 19" is as far as it goes (for forcing 4:3), and it still leaves some black bars all around.

alexanrs wrote:

I've got a Benq XL2420T and I can vouch for it. I've been using it set as a 19" 4:3 monitor for DOS games using modes that do not have square pixels. The only thing I miss is a bigger 4:3 option. 19" is as far as it goes (for forcing 4:3), and it still leaves some black bars all around.

Is it possible for you to do some photos of the monitor in action? Ideally with the 1:1 mode and various resolutions (1024 x 768 especially). That would really interest me 😀

For some big boy wide screen and 4:3 support - AOC e2795Vh

BIOS: stretched

DOS Command prompt: stretched - LCD OSD reports 320x200

DOS 320 x 200 game: supported, AR = 16:10

DOS 640x400 (C&C95) : supported, AR = 16:10

DOS 640 x 480 (Duke 3D): supported, AR = 4:3

DOS 800 x 600 (Duke 3D): supported, AR = 4:3

DOS 1024 x 786 game: supported, AR = 4:3

DOS 1280 x 1024 game: supported, AR = 5:4

DOS 1600 x 200: "input not supported"

Windows 640 x 480: 4:3

Windows 800 x 600: 4:3

Windows 1024 x 768: 4:3

Windows 1280 x 1024: 5:4

Windows: 1600 x 1200: - downscales to 1512 x 1080 (5:4? - 4:3? no idea) on auto and 1440x1080 on the forced 4:3 setting. Auto setting is fuzzy and weird. Forced 4:3 (1440x1080) is surprisingly clear. Use this setting to play unreal tournament on my WinXP rig. Resolution also works well in Dungeon Keeper 2 and Homeworld 1 (set game to 1600x1200 - monitor does the rest)

philscomputerlab wrote:

Is it possible for you to do some photos of the monitor in action? Ideally with the 1:1 mode and various resolutions (1024 x 768 especially). That would really interest me 😀

Sure, but I won't be home until Monday, so it'll have to wait until then. Feel free to PM me if I forget to do it.

kanecvr wrote:

For some big boy wide screen and 4:3 support - AOC e2795Vh

Thank you for the update!

I have an AOC 24" and it has the exact same behavior 😀

alexanrs wrote:

philscomputerlab wrote:

Is it possible for you to do some photos of the monitor in action? Ideally with the 1:1 mode and various resolutions (1024 x 768 especially). That would really interest me 😀

Sure, but I won't be home until Monday, so it'll have to wait until then. Feel free to PM me if I forget to do it.

That would be awesome, thank you.