VOGONS


Reply 240 of 304, by Sphere478

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Get a hub for it for more ports

I use an internal hub.

Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
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Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 241 of 304, by mk2k01

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Hello,
I've problems to get USB working on my old SuperSockel7 Machine. It's a FIC PA-2013 with K6 II, a Matrox G400 and an CF-to-IDE adapter on Windows 2000. The CF-card is marked as swapable drive.
If I plugin an optical USB-mouse to the onboard USB ports, the red light only sometimes shines for a splitsecond. But there seems to be no power on the usb-port. On Windows 2000 I can't install the driver for onboard USB. It says the driver doesn't work.

I also have 3 USB 2.0 PCI cards. One with NEC D720100 (or NEC D720101?), two with VIA chips (6212L?). On none of this I get the mouse powered.
I've already disabled almost everything (serial, parallel, onboard USB, IRC to VGA-card) to get more free IRQs. But it doesn't help. Whenever I install the driver of one of the USB-cards and activate it in W2k, the system freezes. I can install the driver in safe mode, deactivate it and then boot into "normal mode". As soon as the USB-card get's activated, the PC freezes.

Is there power on the USB-ports, as long as the card is not "driver ready"? Can this be a power problem within the mainboard or the power supply?

Reply 242 of 304, by tauro

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mk2k01 wrote on 2023-05-23, 05:37:
Hello, I've problems to get USB working on my old SuperSockel7 Machine. It's a FIC PA-2013 with K6 II, a Matrox G400 and an CF-t […]
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Hello,
I've problems to get USB working on my old SuperSockel7 Machine. It's a FIC PA-2013 with K6 II, a Matrox G400 and an CF-to-IDE adapter on Windows 2000. The CF-card is marked as swapable drive.
If I plugin an optical USB-mouse to the onboard USB ports, the red light only sometimes shines for a splitsecond. But there seems to be no power on the usb-port. On Windows 2000 I can't install the driver for onboard USB. It says the driver doesn't work.

I also have 3 USB 2.0 PCI cards. One with NEC D720100 (or NEC D720101?), two with VIA chips (6212L?). On none of this I get the mouse powered.
I've already disabled almost everything (serial, parallel, onboard USB, IRC to VGA-card) to get more free IRQs. But it doesn't help. Whenever I install the driver of one of the USB-cards and activate it in W2k, the system freezes. I can install the driver in safe mode, deactivate it and then boot into "normal mode". As soon as the USB-card get's activated, the PC freezes.

Is there power on the USB-ports, as long as the card is not "driver ready"? Can this be a power problem within the mainboard or the power supply?

Hi and welcome 👶

Are you sure the on-board USB ports are enabled in the BIOS menu? Disable the USB keyboard compatibility. It's been problematic for me.
Make sure the on-board ports work. Boot a GNU/Linux CD distro such as DSL and try a PS2 mouse (plug it in after the system loads).

Also, what PSU are you using? Trying another one is a good idea. Your K6-2 is pulling a lot of current.

Reply 243 of 304, by mk2k01

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I've tried the USB-onboard ports at first. Therefor I enabled them in the bios. I'm not sure what I've set for USB keybord compatibility. I will try that.
The K6 II 450 MHz 2,2 V CPU runs at 350 oder 400 MHz with 1,8 V. The computer needs between 30 (idle) and 40 W of power with an 145 W ATX power supply. It also runs at 550 MHz @ 2,5 V with 70 W power need. So I assume, the power supply has not reached limits at 400 MHz @ 1,8 V.

Later I deactivated the onboard USB ports, since I want to save IRQs for the PCI-USB 2.0 cards. None of them worked and none gave power to the usb mouse.
If onboard-USB is disabled in the BIOS at sockel 7 aged boards, should the usb mouse be illuminated , if plugged in?

Reply 244 of 304, by justin1985

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Has anyone found a PCI USB 2.0 card that comes with a low profile bracket? It looks like there are no end of PCIe USB cards that come with both low profile and normal brackets, but I'm struggling to find any 32-bit PCI ones described or shown with low profile brackets. There are some older cards out there with 2 or 3 ports on the bracket, that look like they'd fit in a low profile slot, but I can't see any evidence of low profile brackets being mentioned in listings or photos of boxes.

Or can anyone recommend a combination of a PCI card that could be adapted, and an STL for 3D printing that would fit it?

Reply 245 of 304, by Kahenraz

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There is an NEC USB 2.0 card with a low profile bracket and no ports on the slot; only two internal ports at the back. You can use this with a second bracket and extension cables that can mount to it.

Here is a photo of the bracket.

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And here is the card. I don't know if you'll be able to find one with the low profile bracket, but you can measure the whole to see if there is a compatible one. Or 3D print one.

Most manufacturers buy parts like these brackets off the shelf. So there is a good chance that you'll find something compatible. You can also measure the wholes and see if there is a compatible part available new.

Actually, you can skip the bracket entirely. You don't need it so long as you're not bumping anything. I used this card once in a slot adjacent an Audigy 2 and put the gameport bracket there instead, so as not to lose a slot.

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Reply 246 of 304, by Kahenraz

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Nope, wait. I found one with the low profile bracket. You're all set. It does require an additional slot for the USB ports, but this isn't even necessary of you want to route them through to the front of the case.

This is on eBay and there are several of them available from the seller.

One caveat is that these are NEC's first generation USB 2.0 controllers. They are not as fast as the subsequent part numbers, but still much faster than USB 1.1.

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Reply 247 of 304, by grey_beard

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OMORES wrote on 2023-01-22, 19:19:

I did mentions this card before...

I would recommend form Startech the PCI-E to USB 2.0 card using the classic VIA 6212 chipset. This PCI-E card it's recognized in Windows 98 with default drivers, works also in Windows 95 OSR2. (tested)

I mean not everyday you can find a PCI-E hardware that works from Windows 95 to Windows 11.

I know it's an old post but that's the strangest combination of parts I've ever seen for such a profane product.

A modern PCIe-to-PCI-bridge on a PCB to interface an PCI-to-USB controller that carries a datecode for the 20th week of 2008. Bonkers.

For which kind of strange target group is this thing made? People that need an USB interface for modern PCs that someone wants to run Windows 95/98 on?!

Reply 248 of 304, by Sphere478

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mk2k01 wrote on 2023-05-24, 13:50:
I've tried the USB-onboard ports at first. Therefor I enabled them in the bios. I'm not sure what I've set for USB keybord compa […]
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I've tried the USB-onboard ports at first. Therefor I enabled them in the bios. I'm not sure what I've set for USB keybord compatibility. I will try that.
The K6 II 450 MHz 2,2 V CPU runs at 350 oder 400 MHz with 1,8 V. The computer needs between 30 (idle) and 40 W of power with an 145 W ATX power supply. It also runs at 550 MHz @ 2,5 V with 70 W power need. So I assume, the power supply has not reached limits at 400 MHz @ 1,8 V.

Later I deactivated the onboard USB ports, since I want to save IRQs for the PCI-USB 2.0 cards. None of them worked and none gave power to the usb mouse.
If onboard-USB is disabled in the BIOS at sockel 7 aged boards, should the usb mouse be illuminated , if plugged in?

I think some mice turn the light on when the driver loads

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 249 of 304, by Hezus

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This thread has been a great help in my quest to get USB 2.0 on my older systems. I've tried a few different types and I'd tought I'd share some of my experiences.

yiYm15d.jpg
I started off with this unbranded card with the VIA6212L chip. It has no voltage regulation or anything. Also note how it has less pins than the average PCI card. I've tried this in an Intel 440BX board and unsuprisingly it will not boot with it. It does boot in my AMD Slot A machine, but it's not getting recognised correctly by Win98SE. There are some devices showing up in the hardware list but it's missing the Root Hub along with some other functions to work properly. Either the card is defective or the system can't make anything of it.

aAK9pxQ.jpg
I had some more luck with this Conceptronic board. It also uses the VIA6212L chip and has a very cool PCB colour. Again, no post on the i440BX but it works flawlessly on Slot A. Installed the full drivers without a hitch (using nusb3.6).

Cruq4tF.jpg
Another VIA6212L chip. It looks like there is some kind of voltage regulation on there but it didn't work on my i440BX board. No issues whatsoever on the Slot A machine.

Y2X0qD1.jpg
The only thing that would boot on i440BX is this NEC card using the 0720100GM chip. Detected and installed without any issues. It has the full PCI pin set and a tiny regulator so that's what probably makes it work on older systems.

I've not yet tested if any of these had serious impact on the system performance.

Visit my YT Channel!

Reply 250 of 304, by unBIOSed

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I can confirm an NEC-based card working without issue in Windows 98 SE on my MVP3 Super Socket 7 board, whilst several VIA-based cards were detected and installed but no devices working with it.

Last edited by unBIOSed on 2023-06-04, 06:49. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 251 of 304, by Kahenraz

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I have had BIOS resource and stability problems with these NEC controllers in 440BX systems that do not appear with the onboard USB 1.1 controller. Be sure to do lots of testing. Safe stop/remove of USB thumb drives is a good indicator of stability. Do it a couple of times and see if the system locks up.

Reply 252 of 304, by tauro

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Kahenraz wrote on 2023-06-04, 06:19:

I have had BIOS resource and stability problems with these NEC controllers in 440BX systems that do not appear with the onboard USB 1.1 controller. Be sure to do lots of testing. Safe stop/remove of USB thumb drives is a good indicator of stability. Do it a couple of times and see if the system locks up.

I can relate. NEC or VIA, you can get lucky with one or the other in particular system configurations with 440BX motherboards.

Sticking to on-board ports is not a bad idea unless you really need USB 2.0 speeds.

Recently I changed the bus speed down to 66 MHz and started to have problems, whereas previously with the 133MHz bus everything was fine with the VIA card.

Reply 253 of 304, by Cosmic

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Is there any interest in benchmarking USB 2.0 cards? I have at least 7 USB 2.0 PCI cards now from various manufactures. Some are NEC, some are VIA, one has a PS/2 controller. What would be the best platform and software to test them?

My fastest system is an Athon XP box. I could plug in a fast Samsung USB drive and run CrystalDiskBench for each card. Time consuming but maybe useful.

Reply 254 of 304, by Sphere478

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Cosmic wrote on 2023-06-12, 19:30:

Is there any interest in benchmarking USB 2.0 cards? I have at least 7 USB 2.0 PCI cards now from various manufactures. Some are NEC, some are VIA, one has a PS/2 controller. What would be the best platform and software to test them?

My fastest system is an Athon XP box. I could plug in a fast Samsung USB drive and run CrystalDiskBench for each card. Time consuming but maybe useful.

Yeah, that would be awesome.

I think the faster the system the less the effect so something slow and early would be appropriate being a primarily cpu/mobo problem, a fast gpu might be appropriate.

Suggest:

win 98 se or win ME

Pentium 233 mmx on 430hx mobo

3dm 2000

Radeon 7500,9250 9200

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 255 of 304, by Kahenraz

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Off the top of my head, there is a big jump in performance between NEC's first and later generation USB controllers by about 10-20%. Compatibility will also depend on whether 5V is available from the PCI slot, and I suspect that there might be different code paths depending on whether SSE is available or not.

I don't know to what extent chipsets play in compatibility, or whether it's more to do with motherboard or BIOS features or whether it's Windows 9x vs NT/2000, etc.

I have not done extensive testing, but the biggest obstacle for me with USB 2.0 on old motherboards has always been stability, not speed.

Reply 256 of 304, by Duffman

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I suspect it comes down to the halfassed functionality of NTKERN.VXD in 9x that keeps USB 2.0 from working well.

USB 2.0 works correctly in 2000/XP on the same hardware doesn't it?

MB: ASRock B550 Steel Legend
CPU: Ryzen 9 5950X
RAM: Corsair 64GB Kit (4x16GB) DDR4 Veng LPX C18 4000MHz
SSDs: 2x Crucial MX500 1TB SATA + 1x Samsung 980 (non-pro) 1TB NVMe SSD
OSs: Win 11 Pro (NVMe) + WinXP Pro SP3 (SATA)
GPU: RTX2070 (11) GT730 (XP)

Reply 258 of 304, by Sphere478

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Kahenraz wrote on 2023-06-13, 02:23:
Duffman wrote on 2023-06-13, 01:47:

USB 2.0 works correctly in 2000/XP on the same hardware doesn't it?

I'm not sure. I haven't done extensive testing to confirm.

I believe I saw the slowdown under xp also

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 259 of 304, by Zachz91

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I tried installing a USB PCI card into my 486 DX4-100 with UMC chipset. Windows 98 completes the boot process, but stalls half-way through displaying the login prompt. The system fully boots with the card removed. The card is a UC120 with an OPTi FireLink 82C861 chipset. Does anyone know what might be going on? It is obviously a 5 volt card with only one notch on the end farthest from the bracket.