Well, my budget (and working space for that matter,) just took a giant sideways step on me. I just found out that on June 1st I'm going to have to move 🙁 Not spending another penny till after that. After I get settled a couple of things will probably have changed. One - I'm definitely rearranging my work area, so I might be able to squeeze an external module or 2 (is there a quick and easy way to switch between external modules?) into my work area. Ok, lets be honest, my play area 😀 I also will have a different amount of disposable income each month. The amount coming in won't change (that's fixed,) but my expenses will probably change.

As for my off computers. With 2 monitors and my KVM's I usually have any 2 or 3 of them up at any given time. It depends on my mood. My main PC is pretty much on 24/7. Right now, I have my 128D up with a game going. An hour ago I was fooling around with my A4000 (still not completely familiar with OS3.9 - just upgraded that a couple of months ago.) I'm still playing around with my TI and moving some things from tape to floppy. And of course there are games I love that will not run on the A2000, and that's what I have the 500 for (Archon is the main culprit there.)

I've never been exceptionally worried about period accurate HW. If something is that picky about HW I say the heck with it and use DOSBox or another emulator (Virtual PC for the most part, playing around with PCem right now as well.) I'm not worried about being 100% accurate, I just want it to sound good to me and not require any fancy loading routines (still hate U7 for that - it's one that has gotten pretty much perma-moved to DOSBox.) I don't mind a couple of different boots that are tweaked a little, but not going the 8 entry boot menu route again.

This all started because I was setting up to re-build my off system, came across a reference to Wave Blaster when reading on the drivers for my AWE32. Thought, real MIDI (well Wave Table MIDI,) without that blasted buggy driver? Yeah, I want that. Again, not seeking perfection, just better MIDI music. Yes, I made things a bit more complicated than I really needed too. But, I like complicated, it allows me to gather more facts and make a more informed decision. After the first 5 or so responses, I knew that this could also get expensive. Not too worried about that either (well a little more worried now until I find out where I'm going to end up.)

Right now, when I get my off system put back together (since I'm holding off on buying anything until after the move,) I'll probably give SoftMPU a try. Can't be worse than AWEUtil. I'll still be looking for a DB, and I'll probably still be toying with getting a 401 compatible card at some point. As long as the DB sounds good, I'll probably just stick with that. Right now my list of 401 compatible cards is limited. Really only two, that I have found so far, that have a DB header (the 401At and the Magic Midia Midicard.) There are also 2 that have decent Wave Tables built on (Yamaha SW60XG and Midiatrix Audiotrix 3DXG.) I wasn't counting the LAPC-I because everyone seems to on to me about the cost, not sure I want to pay $600+ for this anyways. I was actually planning to spend between $200 and $400 on this (all total.)

If you haven't guess from my earlier posts, I tend to build my off system all at once and at max expansion for the current MB in it. My off system is built for native environment and not native HW. So, it will have DOS 6.22/Win 3.1 and Windows 98 installed on it, but the HW will be a little more advance than most people building old game systems might build. I just want the old OS's for the most part, anything that is extremely HW picky tends to get moved to emulation (that's where I play Ultima 1 - 7 for example.) Underworld and Ultima 8, not being so picky, gets played on my off system.

I "might" be moving all my MIDI work to my off system in the near future. I've actually been considering moving it to my A4000. Still looking into the SW/HW requirements for that. I first started with an A2000 (same keyboard actually, but I don't have the HW interface any more,) and Music Construction set. Liked the PC version better, though, because it allowed me to work with more voices for each chord. Also, when I worked on the A2000, there was an extra step involved. On the PC I could set the instruments at build time. On the Amiga, I had to tap in the notes and build the basic MIDI there, then copy it to my PC and set all the instruments there for the entire piece before I had anything close to a finished product.

edit: Forgot to mention :edit
If I have room, the output from a second card will probably go through a new (well used, but new to me,) equalizer. I'm hoping I can make room (and can afford,) one that has 8+ inputs (one for all 8 eventual systems, plus 1 for the MIDI if I go that route.) So, I could use that to adjust the music volume if necessary. Ideally, I can get on that isn't too expensive that allows for digital signals and upgrading (so the analog signal from my Amiga could work with digital speakers.) This would allow me to remove that extra cable currently running from the "back" speakers port of my sound card to the speakers. That one single cable makes keeping things balanced a real hassle (because it bypassed the equalizer.) OK, now that I'm typing this, I guess (if it's has enough inputs,) I could just use a second line for the back speakers. I can't do that now because this one only has 4 inputs.

OK, still doing research even though I can't do anything for a couple of weeks. Now I want an external unit 🙁 Just saw a video of Ultima 7 with an MT-32 unit. I actually was not aware that the MT-32 had special FX functions, I always found games like Ulima Underworld and Ultima 7 strange for using instruments for some sound effects instead of the digital sound blaster's abilities. Now I know that they didn't, they used the MT-32's FX features to make those sounds (and they were pretty good too.) So, now I want that MT-32, and I'm going to need an intelligent card to put it through (SoftMPU requires EMM386 - I "have" been reading up on it - but U7 won't run with EMM386 loaded.) This is frustrating 🙁 So, now I'm faced with making a choice sooner than expected. So, now I need to find out how things like that sound on something like the SCB-55. From what I've read U7 required intelligent MPU401, so can't use the AWE32 with it 🙁 Of course, I could be wrong about that last part.

Ok, now I need to know which games require intelligent MPU and won't run under EMM386. Ultima 7 & Serpent Isle are the only ones I know that have MT-32 but won't run with EMM386 loaded, and I'm not 100% sure they need intelligent mode. Still web searching on that.

NM - just read that U7 works with UART mode.

Ok, is anyone willing to just take me out somewhere and shoot me?? First, I pull out my original AWE32 to get it's chip set and learn that it doesn't have the DB header. So, I buy a better AWE32 (at a very good price IMHO.) Now I discover that the AWE32 I bought on eBay 10 years ago (the one without the header,) isn't an AWE32 after all. Its a Sound Blaster 32 (CT3600.) Well, no shakes there, got a real AWE32, so I'm happy as far as that goes. Now, I'm putting my off system back together and discover that the case my P2 233mmx system was in is in no way ATX compatible. My P2B P3 board will not go in it.... I should really learn to check these things more closely. I never took that close a look at the case, just assumed it was ATX like every other case I've bought in the last 15 years 🙁 So, now I'm off looking for a case, got a few friends who might have an old extra one laying around somewhere. Well, I have another P2 MB stored away, so that's going in this case, but I'm not re-installing this system, I'm going to get the P3 running.... But, I'll have an old system for sale on eBay in a month or so (waiting till after the move to sell it.)

P2-233mmx, SB32 w/2meg, ATI RageII+ (??) 4mb, Voodoo2 12MB, 10/100 LAN, 2GB HDD, CDRW, 3.5"FDD. Should make someone a good old software system 😀

FeedingDragon I'm not sure if it's just me but my head is spinning with your messages. Too much information, too many options, too confusing 😀

FeedingDragon wrote:

OK, still doing research even though I can't do anything for a couple of weeks. Now I want an external unit 🙁 Just saw a video of Ultima 7 with an MT-32 unit. I actually was not aware that the MT-32 had special FX functions, I always found games like Ulima Underworld and Ultima 7 strange for using instruments for some sound effects instead of the digital sound blaster's abilities. Now I know that they didn't, they used the MT-32's FX features to make those sounds (and they were pretty good too.) So, now I want that MT-32, and I'm going to need an intelligent card to put it through (SoftMPU requires EMM386 - I "have" been reading up on it - but U7 won't run with EMM386 loaded.) This is frustrating 🙁 So, now I'm faced with making a choice sooner than expected. So, now I need to find out how things like that sound on something like the SCB-55. From what I've read U7 required intelligent MPU401, so can't use the AWE32 with it 🙁 Of course, I could be wrong about that last part.

Ok, now I need to know which games require intelligent MPU and won't run under EMM386. Ultima 7 & Serpent Isle are the only ones I know that have MT-32 but won't run with EMM386 loaded, and I'm not 100% sure they need intelligent mode. Still web searching on that.

NM - just read that U7 works with UART mode.

The games that require intelligent mode is listed at SoftMPU's webpage: http://bjt42.github.io/softmpu/. Anything else (except maybe some unknown obscure asian titles) uses UART 😀 So as you already found out, U7 will work just fine with the AWE32. If you're afraid of having it loaded all the time, then just have a batch file that loads SoftMPU when it's needed. Which you can call upon when required or incorporate into the loading of the game.

Did a video on Soft MPU a while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N3uYnXIer8

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

FeedingDragon I'm not sure if it's just me but my head is spinning with your messages. Too much information, too many options, too confusing 😀

I'm having problems parsing them in my typical speed-reading fashion, to be sure. Hey FeedingDragon, "ENTER" key (to provide paragraph breaks and/or breaks between concepts) is your friend! 😀

Stiletto wrote:

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

FeedingDragon I'm not sure if it's just me but my head is spinning with your messages. Too much information, too many options, too confusing 😀

I'm having problems parsing them in my typical speed-reading fashion, to be sure. Hey FeedingDragon, "ENTER" key (to provide paragraph breaks and/or breaks between concepts) is your friend! 😀

I put in paragraph breaks.... Just not very good at it. Also, it doesn't help that I do most of my posting after I've been up for 20+ hours. Just a fact of life for me (don't sleep well.) One of the reasons I have such a busy computer play area. It keeps my mind occupied because body can't keep up any more. I'll try to break things up a bit more.

vetz wrote:

The games that require intelligent mode is listed at SoftMPU's webpage: http://bjt42.github.io/softmpu/. Anything else (except maybe some unknown obscure asian titles) uses UART 😀 So as you already found out, U7 will work just fine with the AWE32. If you're afraid of having it loaded all the time, then just have a batch file that loads SoftMPU when it's needed. Which you can call upon when required or incorporate into the loading of the game.

It's not so much that I'm afraid of having it loaded, as some of my games are extremely limiting in the conventional memory they require. So, I try to avoid using things that take up memory when I can. I've got a clean boot, that would easily allow me to use it, as I have everything high w 615k conventional memory, and I even have a 12k block of upper memory available (IIRC.) So the only remaining issue is, do any of the games that require intelligent mode refuse to work with EMM386? Is that the list of ALL games that require intelligent mode, or is it just the list of games that require it and are compatible with SoftMPU? Finally, since I have an AWE32, does that mean that the 6 games that require IRQ2/9 (the AWE32 doesn't have a 1 next to it,) won't work for me? Though, there are a couple of those I know I'll never play.

As far as loading it when I need it, I do that already for a lot of things. Almost all my games have a batch file I've written to load something, or set something, before the game loads. Or just to gives me a common command I can use, so I don't have to remember the command for every single game I have installed. I don't have to remember that game x needs me to actually type in xyz in order to play it. I just type play from the directory it's installed too (I also tend to name the directories better than many of the defaults.)

One game, that I currently don't have but plan to get eventually, is Frontier: Elite 2. I had that game back with my 486, and I never did get it to run. Spent an hour on long distance with tech support, and ended up returning it. IIRC, it required a ridiculous amount of conventional memory, and I wasn't going to spend another $100 just to play the one game. No matter how much I liked the original Elite.

FeedingDragon wrote:

It's not so much that I'm afraid of having it loaded, as some of my games are extremely limiting in the conventional memory they require. So, I try to avoid using things that take up memory when I can. I've got a clean boot, that would easily allow me to use it, as I have everything high w 615k conventional memory, and I even have a 12k block of upper memory available (IIRC.) So the only remaining issue is, do any of the games that require intelligent mode refuse to work with EMM386? Is that the list of ALL games that require intelligent mode, or is it just the list of games that require it and are compatible with SoftMPU? Finally, since I have an AWE32, does that mean that the 6 games that require IRQ2/9 (the AWE32 doesn't have a 1 next to it,) won't work for me? Though, there are a couple of those I know I'll never play.

If you read the SoftMPU thread you'll an announcement:

Update 22/10/2013 - All known intelligent-mode games are tested and working. Let me know if you find any others!

Meaning the list on SoftMPU is complete of all the known games and since SoftMPU requires EMM386 to be loaded it is safe to assume that none of the games have any issues.

The games that require IRQ2/9 won't work on an AWE32 since the card can't be configured for it. Regarding those 6 games only A-10 Tank Killer is very well known and if you have v1.5 it works with UART.

Sorry, didn't see that on the thread.... Generally, if a thread is more than a few pages when I first read it, I go straight to the last page and work backwards for a page or two just get the latest bits.... That and the web site itself was all I read.

About the 6 games... I have "It Came From the Desert," I used to have, and plan to get again, "Innocent Until Caught." "Wonderland," if it's the IF game I'm thinking of, is something I might try in the future (I love the IF games, like zork, spellcasting, etc...) Not sure about David Wolf, not big on flight sims or action games (there are exceptions,) though I do like "spy" stories, it's a solid 50/50 maybe. Probably depends on if I remember it when I come across it somewhere. Not liking flight sims throws "A-10 Tank Killer" out as a possible, and what I read on "Princess Maker 2" doesn't interest me in the slightest. So, only half of them are an issue.

One thing that I find curious. Out of all the games from that era, only 56 needed intelligent mode? That's got to be what, .01% of the total games produced with midi music? Less?

A lot of flagship MT-32 adventures from the late 1980s require intelligent MPU-401. That is also the MT-32 / CM-32L (and variants) MIDI golden age.

FeedingDragon wrote:

About the 6 games... I have "It Came From the Desert," I used to have, and plan to get again, "Innocent Until Caught." "Wonderland," if it's the IF game I'm thinking of, is something I might try in the future (I love the IF games, like zork, spellcasting, etc...) Not sure about David Wolf, not big on flight sims or action games (there are exceptions,) though I do like "spy" stories, it's a solid 50/50 maybe. Probably depends on if I remember it when I come across it somewhere. Not liking flight sims throws "A-10 Tank Killer" out as a possible, and what I read on "Princess Maker 2" doesn't interest me in the slightest. So, only half of them are an issue.

One thing that I find curious. Out of all the games from that era, only 56 needed intelligent mode? That's got to be what, .01% of the total games produced with midi music? Less?

You won't be getting those three games you care about working and also having AWE and wavetable daughterboard connected at the same time unless you hack one on a AWE64 Gold. You will be stuck to three options:

1. Go with the AWE32 CT3980 which you've bought and get a DB. Play games requiring intelligent mode with SoftMPU. This gives you everything except those three mentioned games
2. Drop the AWE32 for a AWE64, but then you will need an external MIDI device like a SC55 since there is no internal wavetable connector.
3. Drop the AWE32 for a ESS, Yamaha ISA card. Here you'll get DB and IRQ 2/9, but no AWE possibilities.
4. Dual card. Awe32 (Sound & AWE music) and ESS/Yamaha (DB/MIDI). With the configuration problems this leads to.

You can't get everything

I suggest just go for number 1 and then get a cheap ESS card IF you intend to actually play them and swap out the sound card. Or just play those games with other music options. It's not like the game is unplayable if you dont have LA synth music activated.

Yes, only 56 required intelligent mode, but as PeterLI mentioned, SOME of them are hallmark games like the Sierra Leisure Suit Larry 2/3, Quest games, Wing Commander.

Actually, what I went with is 2 cards. The AWE32 I already purchased with it's MPU set to 300 instead of 330. A MPU-401AT set at 2/9 & 330. A SCB-55, and an external MT-32 (Ok, finally heard what a real one sounds like with games designed for it, fell in love with the sound.) Will eventually look into the possibility of adding a DB to the AWE, right now I have MT-32, Sound Canvas, OPL FM, and AWE32 WaveTable (can be remapped from I/O 300.) I was thinking about the DoX-1 DB (Korg based,) because I liked the Korg results, but I would only be able to use it in games that allowed me to use a different I/O address. I'm also half-way planning on getting a CM-32L to stack with the MT-32 😀

Cool. That is a very nice setup! 😀