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Reply 4081 of 22418, by kithylin

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After a lot of research I've been doing it all slotted together perfectly to result in.. what I think is nearly "The fastest" in some terms for Win98se that is fully compatible. And by fully compatible I mean no hard-core modifications to the Win98se Kernel / system to run on an i7 or anything stupid like that. What I mean is take 100% vanilla microsoft Win98se original disc and stick it in the drive and install it, load drivers and everything works. This should be compatible with nearly all older games now.

At first I had a P4 Cedar Mill chip in it at 4.8 ghz, but then replaced that with a 4MB Conroe core2duo chip, and it was just as fast as the 4.8 P4 was.. which reduced heat and power, and got that going. But then I got searching "How can I go faster!" since any chip this 945p platform can run will be 100% native compatible with win98se now... I started digging and found out to get a decent overclock with this platform I need to get a higher multiplier chip. So I ended up on a 12x-multi 2MB C2D Conroe for now, which got me up to 3425 Mhz 100% stable with vanilla Win98se, so this is as far as it gets, for now. Later I want to (some day) turn this in to the whole "nucking futs" setup and try putting a unlocked multiplier C2D x6800 in here, put it in my other case for the custom water loop for 775, and aim for 4.5+ ghz C2D for Win98se stable. Just because I know how and can. I know it's ridiculus, but hay, may as well try it.

So anyway this is the best I've come up with so far, and this is my new Win98se machine. Completely retired my old 2.5 ghz AthlonXP 3200+ barton rig.

r_3DMark-2001se-3.5-Ghz-C2D-6800-Ultra-PCIE-512-Win98se.jpg
Larger (Likely actually readable): http://www.outfoxed.net/945p/3DMark-2001se-3. … 512-Win98se.jpg

Retro activity has been putting in new chip in it. Tweaking and tuning it all day and then playing Decent III in win98se.. the 6800 ultra DRAGS in outdoors at higher resolutions, and so I'm going to have to try those newer drivers and see if I can get a 7000 series G70 video card working in 98se in it. Should just be as easy as adding a device-ID entry to the proper driver package. Or see about maybe a Quadro FX-5500 which is still G70 core but 1GB gpu ram. If I'm going for "nucking futs" why not go all the way? 🤣

Reply 4082 of 22418, by PhilsComputerLab

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Got around to testing the AGP BFG 7800 GS OC card I got a few weeks ago.

It works, but I had to use a slightly newer driver to get full performance. The previous driver had some issues, really slow performance. Using 101.09 now.

Got to re-bench all the 754 and 478 CPUs, but what can you do...

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Reply 4083 of 22418, by Imperious

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kithylin wrote:
After a lot of research I've been doing it all slotted together perfectly to result in.. what I think is nearly "The fastest" in […]
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After a lot of research I've been doing it all slotted together perfectly to result in.. what I think is nearly "The fastest" in some terms for Win98se that is fully compatible. And by fully compatible I mean no hard-core modifications to the Win98se Kernel / system to run on an i7 or anything stupid like that. What I mean is take 100% vanilla microsoft Win98se original disc and stick it in the drive and install it, load drivers and everything works. This should be compatible with nearly all older games now.

At first I had a P4 Cedar Mill chip in it at 4.8 ghz, but then replaced that with a 4MB Conroe core2duo chip, and it was just as fast as the 4.8 P4 was.. which reduced heat and power, and got that going. But then I got searching "How can I go faster!" since any chip this 945p platform can run will be 100% native compatible with win98se now... I started digging and found out to get a decent overclock with this platform I need to get a higher multiplier chip. So I ended up on a 12x-multi 2MB C2D Conroe for now, which got me up to 3425 Mhz 100% stable with vanilla Win98se, so this is as far as it gets, for now. Later I want to (some day) turn this in to the whole "nucking futs" setup and try putting a unlocked multiplier C2D x6800 in here, put it in my other case for the custom water loop for 775, and aim for 4.5+ ghz C2D for Win98se stable. Just because I know how and can. I know it's ridiculus, but hay, may as well try it.

So anyway this is the best I've come up with so far, and this is my new Win98se machine. Completely retired my old 2.5 ghz AthlonXP 3200+ barton rig.

Retro activity has been putting in new chip in it. Tweaking and tuning it all day and then playing Decent III in win98se.. the 6800 ultra DRAGS in outdoors at higher resolutions, and so I'm going to have to try those newer drivers and see if I can get a 7000 series G70 video card working in 98se in it. Should just be as easy as adding a device-ID entry to the proper driver package. Or see about maybe a Quadro FX-5500 which is still G70 core but 1GB gpu ram. If I'm going for "nucking futs" why not go all the way? 🤣

There has to be something wrong there, that score is extremely low.

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Reply 4084 of 22418, by kithylin

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Imperious wrote:

There has to be something wrong there, that score is extremely low.

Yeah.. It's run under windows 98 is the reason. Which hampers system performance by as much as -40%, and only allows programs to run on one of the chip's two cores. I'm sure it would likely be nearly double if I ran it in windows XP.

But that's entirely not the point of this computer build and project. It's meant to see how far I can take the vanilla Win98se platform and still remain compatible with games, old games.

And already it's +4800 (in 3dmark 2001se) more 3dmark points with a similar video card (6800 ultra AGP in old AthlonXP machine vs 6800 ultra PCIE in this newer one), with the new platform so I'm happy enough already.

Reply 4085 of 22418, by Kamerat

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kithylin wrote:
Yeah.. It's run under windows 98 is the reason. Which hampers system performance by as much as -40%, and only allows programs to […]
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Imperious wrote:

There has to be something wrong there, that score is extremely low.

Yeah.. It's run under windows 98 is the reason. Which hampers system performance by as much as -40%, and only allows programs to run on one of the chip's two cores. I'm sure it would likely be nearly double if I ran it in windows XP.

But that's entirely not the point of this computer build and project. It's meant to see how far I can take the vanilla Win98se platform and still remain compatible with games, old games.

And already it's +4800 (in 3dmark 2001se) more 3dmark points with a similar video card (6800 ultra AGP in old AthlonXP machine vs 6800 ultra PCIE in this newer one), with the new platform so I'm happy enough already.

You should still get a much higher performance, something similar to this: My 3DMark01 Mega Thread

I notice most of your syntetic tests in 3DMark are on the low side too, maybe a driver issue?

Benched some other PCIe cards, I guess you have seen this thread before: PCIe devices on Windows 98 SE

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Reply 4086 of 22418, by kithylin

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Kamerat wrote:

You should still get a much higher performance, something similar to this: My 3DMark01 Mega Thread

I notice most of your syntetic tests in 3DMark are on the low side too, maybe a driver issue?

Benched some other PCIe cards, I guess you have seen this thread before: PCIe devices on Windows 98 SE

I think most of the issues is platform differences. Not sure how you got it working but you have a newer chip and chipset there vs what I have. Double cpu cache of mine, double FSB bus speed (this system of mine will never reach 400 FSB) and the 7800 GTX is quite a lot faster than the 6800 ultra in general, and then you went and overclocked it ontop of that. Mine's a bone stock 6800 ultra PCIE card.

I may get somewhat close to that system later with time with this one.. I don't know. It's mostly just "Try and get faster than what I had as cheap as possible" just recently bought: $20 for the motherboard, $4 for this CPU I have now. $3 for the ram, etc. For about $30 I think my little "new to me" 98se machine is great. And has room for expansion (where as the old amd system was pretty much maxed out already), so I think it's fine as is.

Reply 4088 of 22418, by PhilsComputerLab

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Finally opened my NIB ZALMAN cooler 😁

What a BEAST. 1 Kg of copper awesomeness.

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Reply 4089 of 22418, by Arctic

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I found an old Radeon 7500 64MB AGP build by PowerColor that was completely busted and full of dust.
The first thing that I did was to clean the GPU, cooler and fan. Then I put new oil into the fan, added Arctic MX-4 and installed it again.
Unfortunately I made no before/after pictures.

I hope it will boot 😵

Reply 4090 of 22418, by retrofanatic

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kithylin wrote:

After a lot of research I've been doing it all slotted together perfectly to result in.. what I think is nearly "The fastest" in some terms for Win98se that is fully compatible. And by fully compatible I mean no hard-core modifications to the Win98se Kernel / system to run on an i7 or anything stupid like that. What I mean is take 100% vanilla microsoft Win98se original disc and stick it in the drive and install it, load drivers and everything works. This should be compatible with nearly all older games now...................

Very nice setup! Good work getting it to that point.

Is there a post somewhere where you provide details on how you got a PCI-e video card to work with Win98? I would love to do a similar setup, but I have never been able to get a PCI-e vide card working with win98.

If you can, please post more details about your system specs, drivers used and compatibility issues (if any). I have heard of using modified nvidia drivers on the msfn.org website, but I could never find a download link anywhere. If you know of a link, please let me know.

Reply 4091 of 22418, by brostenen

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PhilsComputerLab wrote:

Finally opened my NIB ZALMAN cooler 😁

What a BEAST. 1 Kg of copper awesomeness.

Indeed. They are truely awesome coolers. I have had mine since 2005, when I bought it new.
The only difference are, that mine is a NorthQ model. They seem to be slightly higher quality.
Half of the Zalman coolers are not 100% cobber, they have some of the blades made from
a different material. All the NorthQ coolers, from 60mm to 120mm are 100% cobber.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
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001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 4092 of 22418, by kithylin

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retrofanatic wrote:
Very nice setup! Good work getting it to that point. […]
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kithylin wrote:

After a lot of research I've been doing it all slotted together perfectly to result in.. what I think is nearly "The fastest" in some terms for Win98se that is fully compatible. And by fully compatible I mean no hard-core modifications to the Win98se Kernel / system to run on an i7 or anything stupid like that. What I mean is take 100% vanilla microsoft Win98se original disc and stick it in the drive and install it, load drivers and everything works. This should be compatible with nearly all older games now...................

Very nice setup! Good work getting it to that point.

Is there a post somewhere where you provide details on how you got a PCI-e video card to work with Win98? I would love to do a similar setup, but I have never been able to get a PCI-e vide card working with win98.

If you can, please post more details about your system specs, drivers used and compatibility issues (if any). I have heard of using modified nvidia drivers on the msfn.org website, but I could never find a download link anywhere. If you know of a link, please let me know.

I'll go ahead and write it up and post a link to it here in a little while.

Reply 4093 of 22418, by retrofanatic

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kithylin wrote:
retrofanatic wrote:
Very nice setup! Good work getting it to that point. […]
Show full quote
kithylin wrote:

After a lot of research I've been doing it all slotted together perfectly to result in.. what I think is nearly "The fastest" in some terms for Win98se that is fully compatible. And by fully compatible I mean no hard-core modifications to the Win98se Kernel / system to run on an i7 or anything stupid like that. What I mean is take 100% vanilla microsoft Win98se original disc and stick it in the drive and install it, load drivers and everything works. This should be compatible with nearly all older games now...................

Very nice setup! Good work getting it to that point.

Is there a post somewhere where you provide details on how you got a PCI-e video card to work with Win98? I would love to do a similar setup, but I have never been able to get a PCI-e vide card working with win98.

If you can, please post more details about your system specs, drivers used and compatibility issues (if any). I have heard of using modified nvidia drivers on the msfn.org website, but I could never find a download link anywhere. If you know of a link, please let me know.

I'll go ahead and write it up and post a link to it here in a little while.

Thank you...that would be very helpful...I love the configuration of your setup and I think I have many of the same parts available in my storage.

It will give me a great starting point for my build.

Reply 4094 of 22418, by stamasd

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PhilsComputerLab wrote:

Got around to testing the AGP BFG 7800 GS OC card I got a few weeks ago.

It works, but I had to use a slightly newer driver to get full performance. The previous driver had some issues, really slow performance. Using 101.09 now.

Got to re-bench all the 754 and 478 CPUs, but what can you do...

Lucky you, you have a working one. I got one just like this, but it's dead.

I/O, I/O,
It's off to disk I go,
With a bit and a byte
And a read and a write,
I/O, I/O

Reply 4095 of 22418, by kithylin

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retrofanatic wrote:

Thank you...that would be very helpful...I love the configuration of your setup and I think I have many of the same parts available in my storage.

It will give me a great starting point for my build.

As you requested, here's my post. It took quite a while to get all the exact information and links together. But here ya go: .. Also we can move the discussion over there and out of this thread.

Reply 4096 of 22418, by adalbert

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Made DIY eGPU for CoreDuo laptop I got for free - a proper DIY, that means soldering wires between an old expresscard and PCIe slot. That costs nothing and requires two hours of soldering. Honestly I don't think that using external GPUs with laptops make any sense, I just did that for fun, but also I can't understand why people call buying 65 USD "DIY eGPU kit" and connecting three pieces together DIY.

Maybe that's not retro activity, but that laptop is 10 years old anyway...

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Reply 4098 of 22418, by orinoko

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3D modelling my first computer. Wang Laboratories PC260.

This was done a few days ago, but only got to upload now. Still needs work, but it is close to finished (at least the front is).

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