VOGONS


Reply 17461 of 23295, by Grzyb

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Shreddoc wrote on 2020-12-10, 10:41:

Windows was a good name choice, for something that's never had doors, walls, a roof or a floor.

More like:
first, let's install windows in the air
and then, let's build the wall around these windows

The history of Windows is probably the best example how an OS shouldn't be made:
in 1985, they made a GUI
in 1993, with the NT, they added an OS to that GUI

Reply 17462 of 23295, by appiah4

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Shreddoc wrote on 2020-12-10, 10:41:

Windows was a good name choice, for something that's never had doors, walls, a roof or a floor.

It's also a good name for something that really didn't have windows in the sense we think of them today in its initial release (The shell is basically MS-DOS and windows can't really be overlayed, only tiled). If anything, the Amiga Workbench 1.x was closer in function to Windows we know today than Windows 1.0 was. Strange name. Though, I guess if you ever used Windows 1.0 (I did in 1991, for a single year) then you know where the Microsoft logo comes from..

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 17463 of 23295, by Bruninho

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appiah4 wrote on 2020-12-10, 10:24:
Actually that's wrong, as it should have been: […]
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Bondi wrote on 2020-12-10, 10:20:

brief history 😁
771px-Windowses.jpg

Bruninho wrote on 2020-12-10, 10:14:
Windows 3.11 = Great!! Windows 95 = Good Windows 98 = Very good Windows 2000 = Awesome Windows Me = Garbage Windows XP, Vista, […]
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Windows 3.11 = Great!!
Windows 95 = Good
Windows 98 = Very good
Windows 2000 = Awesome
Windows Me = Garbage
Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8 = Sh*t
Windows 10 = Even with all the Tylenol in the world, I cannot avoid the headache that is to use this pile of sh*t. Wait, I can. Just uninstall it.

IMO Microsoft stopped doing good stuff after 2000.

Actually that's wrong, as it should have been:

3.0 Good
3.1 Shit
3.11 fWG Good
Win95 Shit
Win98 Good
Win98 Shit
Win2K Good
WinXP Shit
Win2K3 Good
Win Vista Shit
Win 7 Good
Win 8 Shit
Win 8.1 Good
Win 10 Shit

Pretty close, I could agree

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
READ: Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 17465 of 23295, by TechieDude

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As much as I prefer mostly *nix OSes, I have to disagree, ME and Vista weren't really that bad, especially the latter was crippled by shitty drivers and old hardware that was released in the early 00's. Basically, manufacturers went out of their way to provide the absolute minimum, and didn't make drivers that actually worked with the then-new WDDM, among other things. By the time 7 was released, Vista run just as well, provided you had decent hardware.

Reply 17466 of 23295, by Dmetsys

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It took two Service Packs to fix all the issues with Vista. I wouldn't be blaming the hardware, especially if you had much more than the minimal requirements to use it. Service Pack 1 brought in some kernel fixes to resolve the memory usage/disk paging problems that plagued Vista. SP2 added further stability. The same issues were found in Server 2008, and resolved in Server 2008 R2, which was based on the Windows 7 kernel.

Can't say that I was wasn't one of many that eagerly waited for the release of Windows 7. I was using XP x64 at the time, as I detested Vista with a passion.

BE6-II 1.0 | PIII-500 | 320MB | GeForce 2 MX400
P5A-B | K6-2 300 (100x3) | 256MB | GeForce 2 MX
ECS UM4980 | 5x86-P75 | 32MB | 90C33-ZZ (In progress..)
Toshiba Satellite Pro T2155CDS | Compaq Contura 400C
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Reply 17468 of 23295, by justmex

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Standard Def Steve wrote on 2019-08-05, 16:36:
I just found something that the G4 is really good at: video playback!. In fact, it's so good at software H.264 playback--a very […]
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Sedrosken wrote:

Yeah, it's kinda sad to mess with PowerPC machines and not be able to see the hype even compared to its comtemporaries. I can still browse the internet okay on a Pentium 4 -- it's not the quickest experience ever by anyone's imagination, but it blows even a dual-G4 machine out of the water. And makes less heat to boot! I think you're on the right track though by fetching a copy of Tiger for it -- Leopard was even considered slow for the time on a lot of G5 systems if I'm remembering correctly. Meanwhile Tiger ran acceptably on my 800MHz iBook G4 with only 256MB of RAM.

I just found something that the G4 is really good at: video playback!. In fact, it's so good at software H.264 playback--a very FPU intensive task--that I'm starting to think the poor web and gaming performance is just due to poorly optimized software, rather than a weak CPU. After all, the games I've tried on this machine (Doom 3, Quake 4, UT2004) were ported from Windows, and who knows how well.

With CorePlayer running on Leopard, I loaded up the regular 720p and 1080p MKV files that I use for benchmarking x86/Windows H.264 decoding performance. The dual-G4 1.25GHz machine not only played the 720p file flawlessly at only ~40 CPU usage, but actually managed to handle the 1080p file as well. That absolutely floored me. I was not expecting that at all. It completely outclasses the PIII-S machine, and in fact rivals my Athlon 64 running at 2.64GHz! I've read that CorePlayer uses AltiVec (the PowerPC equivalent of SSE2) quite heavily, and it shows!

Here are some comparisons to some x86 processors (the x86 stuff was tested using CoreAVC in MPC-HC under WinXP SP3)

H.264 1280x720 (5mb/s, Level 4, 24 fps):

Dual PowerPC G4 @ 1.25GHz (167MHz FSB, 2GB DDR-333, 256K fullspeed L2, 2MB external L3 cache per processor): ~40% CPU
Single Pentium III-S @ 1.63GHz (155MHz FSB, 2GB DDR-310, 512K fullspeed L2 cache): ~90% CPU
Single Pentium 4 @ 2.66GHz (533MHz FSB, 2GB DDR-333, 512K fullspeed L2 cache): ~80% CPU
Single Athlon 64 @ 2.64GHz (960MHz HyperTransport, 2GB dual-channel DDR-440, 1MB fullspeed L2 cache): ~35% CPU

H.264 1920x1080 (14mb/s, Level 4, 24 fps):

Dual PowerPC G4 @ 1.25GHz (167MHz FSB, 2GB DDR-333, 256K fullspeed L2, 2MB external L3 cache per processor): ~92% CPU
Single Pentium III-S @ 1.63GHz (155MHz FSB, 2GB DDR-310, 512K fullspeed L2 cache): 100% CPU, unwatchable
Single Pentium 4 @ 2.66GHz (533MHz FSB, 2GB DDR-333, 512K fullspeed L2 cache): 100% CPU, unwatchable
Single Athlon 64 @ 2.64GHz (960MHz HyperTransport, 2GB dual-channel DDR-440, 1MB fullspeed L2 cache): ~88% CPU

Edit: However, CorePlayer may be taking shortcuts to speed decoding performance. On the G4, I noticed some artifacting in a couple of very high-motion scenes. On the x86 machines, these scenes were completely clean.

Interesting! Do you have some gaming benchmarks of your Macs(G4 vs G5)?

Reply 17469 of 23295, by ragefury32

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Dmetsys wrote on 2020-12-10, 04:08:

Got the old T2155CDS up and running. Had to install DOS 6.22 on my Contura 400C, as the T2155CDS didn't come with a floppy drive. Transferred the benchmark apps, drivers, and Windows 3.11 installs using my IDE to USB converter cable. The screen is in need of replacement due to bad shadowing. I might have to explore options for a CDT (Active TFT) replacement.

Yeah, that dual scan passive matrix screen is just so much hot garbage, and the passage of time does nothing help it out whatsoever. Swap it out with something from a 2150 or 55CDT. Overall it’s a decent machine, if not a bit slow.

Reply 17470 of 23295, by creepingnet

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Versa M/75's case was crumbling like Feta Cheese so I moved to the P/75 (Pentium 75) version instead and TBH, not quite a bad change at all, actually, quite nice as I now have SoundBlaster Audio on-board. Seems the P/75 is a bit better built and not quite as cracked. Also, I was expecting poor battery life - nope, battery life is about the same, maybe a tad better. I played Dragon Warrior on it in NESTICLE off battery, then played Dragon Warrior II, then a round of Hoyle Solitaire....and it was still going with 2 out of 4 bars of battery life.

As for the Versa M/75.....hehehe....it's not really "Dead". I've got a bit of an idea to make my own custom case and exploit some design elements to make a much better structure. Who knows, maybe I'll start buying/taking donations up old broken Pentium and older laptops to convert into killer FreeDOS rigs. I've got some ideas (using USB LiIon Battery packs, Increased WiFi Range, possibly modding to use WPA using a bridge on board the case.....lots of ideas - modern LCDs with LED backlights in a bigger size, adding OPL support via the LPT Port that never gets used).

So we'll see where this goes.....maybe It'll be a one time thing, maybe two time (I've got an extra motherboard and power board that needs minor repair in my closet for an 40E/50E/75E)...maybe I'll just start swiping up all the broken stuff on e-bay that'll never sell because of hinge/case/cracking issues....who knows.

~The Creeping Network~
My Youtube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/creepingnet
Creepingnet's World - https://creepingnet.neocities.org/

Reply 17471 of 23295, by TechieDude

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Dmetsys wrote on 2020-12-10, 14:48:

It took two Service Packs to fix all the issues with Vista. I wouldn't be blaming the hardware, especially if you had much more than the minimal requirements to use it. Service Pack 1 brought in some kernel fixes to resolve the memory usage/disk paging problems that plagued Vista. SP2 added further stability. The same issues were found in Server 2008, and resolved in Server 2008 R2, which was based on the Windows 7 kernel.

Can't say that I was wasn't one of many that eagerly waited for the release of Windows 7. I was using XP x64 at the time, as I detested Vista with a passion.

Same thing with XP, except Vista wasn't released within 3 years... Plus, I mentioned that drivers for Vista sucked at the time.

Reply 17472 of 23295, by Dmetsys

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TechieDude wrote on 2020-12-10, 21:07:
Dmetsys wrote on 2020-12-10, 14:48:

It took two Service Packs to fix all the issues with Vista. I wouldn't be blaming the hardware, especially if you had much more than the minimal requirements to use it. Service Pack 1 brought in some kernel fixes to resolve the memory usage/disk paging problems that plagued Vista. SP2 added further stability. The same issues were found in Server 2008, and resolved in Server 2008 R2, which was based on the Windows 7 kernel.

Can't say that I was wasn't one of many that eagerly waited for the release of Windows 7. I was using XP x64 at the time, as I detested Vista with a passion.

Same thing with XP, except Vista wasn't released within 3 years... Plus, I mentioned that drivers for Vista sucked at the time.

You can continue to mince words all you want. The Service Packs for XP contained Windows Updates and the Windows Activation components. No kernel rewrites. Vista had a complete kernel rewrite in SP2.

Again, if the kernel isn't stable, nothing will run stable including drivers.

BE6-II 1.0 | PIII-500 | 320MB | GeForce 2 MX400
P5A-B | K6-2 300 (100x3) | 256MB | GeForce 2 MX
ECS UM4980 | 5x86-P75 | 32MB | 90C33-ZZ (In progress..)
Toshiba Satellite Pro T2155CDS | Compaq Contura 400C
Macintosh Plus

Reply 17473 of 23295, by Bruninho

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xcomcmdr wrote on 2020-12-10, 15:11:

Vista was butt-ugly too. So much dark colors everywhere. Windows 7 finally introduced more colors. And then the Big Boring Flat Design nutjobs came along...

Hey, I like flat designs. I do not like XP bloody colorful design, it looked like it was designed by Toys'R'Us for childrens.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
READ: Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 17474 of 23295, by TechieDude

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Dmetsys wrote on 2020-12-10, 23:04:

You can continue to mince words all you want. The Service Packs for XP contained Windows Updates and the Windows Activation components. No kernel patches. Vista had a complete kernel rewrite in SP2.

First of all, you start accusing me of 'mincing words', whatever that means. Second, complete kernel rewrite? Where did you even get that from? No offence, but that sounds like total BS. A complete kernel rewrite would be way more trouble than it would be worth, especially via a Service Pack for one of the most hated OSes of all things. That hasn't been done since NT 3.1 for a few reasons... As for XP, that wasn't really all that big of an upgrade from 2000 to need anything huge, but it was quite hated pre-SP1. Its kernel also got a patch for DEP in SP2 if I recall correctly...

Reply 17475 of 23295, by Caluser2000

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I luv it when nerds fight each other. It's great entertainment. I stopped using MS windows completely about the time Vista showed up . XP was fine after SP1 but still had to do the regular maintenance. Win2k was never marketed to the average home user, XP was. You can customize XP to look how every you want it to look with 3rd party tools. I would imagine the same went for Vista onwards.

Anyway sorry to interrupt. Carry on.......

Last edited by Caluser2000 on 2020-12-11, 00:26. Edited 1 time in total.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 17476 of 23295, by Dmetsys

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Caluser2000 wrote on 2020-12-11, 00:00:

I luv it when nerds fight each other. It's great entertainment. I stopped using MS windows completely about the time Vista showed up . XP was fine after SP1 but still had to do the regular Win2k was never marketed to the average home user, XP was. You can customize XP to look how every you want it to look with 3rd party tools. I would imagine the same went for Vista onwards.

Anyway sorry to interrupt. Carry on.......

Nah, just more like who actually used it vs the 'I read it sucked' point of view. It's always easy to trump these kinds of debates.

BE6-II 1.0 | PIII-500 | 320MB | GeForce 2 MX400
P5A-B | K6-2 300 (100x3) | 256MB | GeForce 2 MX
ECS UM4980 | 5x86-P75 | 32MB | 90C33-ZZ (In progress..)
Toshiba Satellite Pro T2155CDS | Compaq Contura 400C
Macintosh Plus

Reply 17477 of 23295, by Caluser2000

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Dmetsys wrote on 2020-12-11, 00:18:
Caluser2000 wrote on 2020-12-11, 00:00:

I luv it when nerds fight each other. It's great entertainment. I stopped using MS windows completely about the time Vista showed up . XP was fine after SP1 but still had to do the regular Win2k was never marketed to the average home user, XP was. You can customize XP to look how every you want it to look with 3rd party tools. I would imagine the same went for Vista onwards.

Anyway sorry to interrupt. Carry on.......

Nah, just more like who actually used it vs the 'I read it sucked' point of view. It's always easy to trump these kinds of debates.

That is certainly true On XP I just selected the legacy/classic theme and HEY PRESTO!! the default theme was gone. It took a few seconds so hardly a hardship.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 17478 of 23295, by Caluser2000

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Also forgot to mention that XP had quite a few EOL extensions because Vista was not being adopted as MS would have prefered by both home users and business users. Same thing happened to Windows 7.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 17479 of 23295, by bjwil1991

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foil_fresh wrote on 2020-12-10, 10:15:

A rather ad-hoc cooling solution for a GeForce4 Ti4200-8X (winfast A280LE) that had a busted fan.

I realise that the case fan is pushing air away but its pretty drafty and the heatsink is never hot to touch so it seems fine. The sensor was saying 52deg c after running 3dmark 2001 a few times.

Glad it works, bought it in a combo P4 2.4 and intel 845 mobo deal for cheap (too cheap, i think he didnt know what kind of card it was due to the odd labelling), but its gone into my athlonxp 2200+ / asus a7n8x-x nforce board.

That is amazing. I gotta do that for my Ti4400 AGP and good thing I have plenty of case fans to install.

I tested the Austin PN/312 TFT laptop that the seller said it "won't light" and when I plugged in the switching power supply set to 9VDC 2.5A, it turned on. The issues that are present are a dirty/oxidized/corroded power board that does work to a point, broken right hinge (will use epoxy to fix it), and the floppy drive that suffered from the belt plague. The display is in amazing shape and it will get more inspections and a new CR1225 battery holder with wires and the battery.

Currently looking for an NEC NL6448AC30-07 TFT display so I can install one in the AMS laptop and surprisingly, the 5x86-P75 3.3V CPU works in the AMS laptop, but I need to find a way to set the CPU to 133MHz (4x clock speed). The Austin has 20MB RAM and a ceramic Intel i486 DX4-100 CPU.

Discord: https://discord.gg/U5dJw7x
Systems from the Compaq Portable 1 to Ryzen 5 2600X
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