VOGONS


Reply 8960 of 27334, by TheAbandonwareGuy

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the_ultra_code wrote:
TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

They are money drains. I see classic computers like classic cars. The money you put into them you will never ever get back out.

Sigh, sadly. I have spent around $400 on my P4 system, and probably reaching $500 on my P3, and that doesn't include the MT-32 and SC-88 - those total over $300. And, of course, that doesn't include costs such as extension cables, switches, etc., etc., or the days I've spent working on them. :{

But hey, at least you get some entertainment out of them when you aren't working on them, right?

I've probably dropped $2k into this hobby over the last 2.5 years. Not terrible I suppose.

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I used to own over 160 graphics card, I've since recovered from graphics card addiction

Reply 8961 of 27334, by ultra_code

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TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

I've probably dropped $2k into this hobby over the last 2.5 years. Not terrible I suppose.

$2K over 2.5 years? I think your doing better than me. I started this almost exactly one year ago. 😀

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Reply 8962 of 27334, by stege

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Did this pretty much all afternoon, while cooking. 😊

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Miss the Monkey Island days, the Space Quest days, even The Longest Journey days.

Reply 8963 of 27334, by gca

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stege wrote:

Did this pretty much all afternoon, while cooking. 😊

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Full Throttle, nice choice. I miss those old point and click adventures. Sadly I don't think the kids these days have the patience/attention span for such things. They don't know what they are missing. A great way to while away an afternoon of rotten UK weather (having said that its scorching outside right now without a cloud in the sky).

Reply 8964 of 27334, by dionb

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TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

[...]

They are money drains. I see classic computers like classic cars. The money you put into them you will never ever get back out.

Like with the cars, it depends on how you approach it. If you are good at restoring, you can buy up scrap cars, restore and sell at a profit, funding your hobby.

Unfortunately I don't have the skills, time or space to do that with cars (or more relevantly, with my 27-year old motorcycle), but with vintage computer stuff I do and I think I'm just about breaking even with it. Basically it's just a matter of buying up big lots of 'junk', identifying and testing it, keeping what I want (usually only one or two bits out of a whole haul) and then selling or swapping whatever is in working order but not something I need/want myself. Even doing so at friendly (Amibay, not eBay) prices pretty much covers what the 'junk' lots cost me in the first place, sometimes even giving a nice little surplus to buy the specific items I can't get in those lots (like MT-32 and GUS). Basically I'm adding value by identifying and testing, and selling that as a service. Measured in term of time involved I'd be better off flipping burgers, but digging through old computers is far more fun 😉

Reply 8965 of 27334, by Munx

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Got myself an early 2000's ricer case so I decided to throw together a quick early 2000's build - Athlon 1400C, Geforce FX5900xt, Audigy SB1394, Shuttle AK37 motherboard with KT400 chipset, WinXP

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Doom3 timedemo gets 38FPS on High 1024x768 😎

My builds!
The FireStarter 2.0 - The wooden K5
The Underdog - The budget K6
The Voodoo powerhouse - The power-hungry K7
The troll PC - The Socket 423 Pentium 4

Reply 8966 of 27334, by OldCat

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TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

I've probably dropped $2k into this hobby over the last 2.5 years. Not terrible I suppose.

About 1-1.5kEUR over last two years. Maybe. Probably less. Most expensive gadgets: Toshiba T5100 and T3200SX with plasma screens in good condition plus renovation (had to ask for help with some trickier bits).

dionb wrote:

Like with the cars, it depends on how you approach it. If you are good at restoring, you can buy up scrap cars, restore and sell at a profit, funding your hobby. [...] Measured in term of time involved I'd be better off flipping burgers, but digging through old computers is far more fun 😉

Exactly! You can earn on this hobby if you put in lot of effort and sell some of the stuff you restore. Me, I have too little skills, patience and free time, so I am putting some money in this, but I think if I sold my collection, I would more or less break even. In a few years, perhaps even gained something.

Compared to hobbies of men my age (old cars, fast bikes and young girls), it seems like small change, really.

Last edited by OldCat on 2018-06-25, 08:10. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 8967 of 27334, by ultra_code

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Got around to upgrading my fans in my P4 machine with two Arctic F12 fans for front/rear and a Noctua NF-A9 PWN (basically a higher RPM PWM-controllable version of the NF-A9 FLX that I had in there) for my CPU heatsink. And boy, was it worth it. It dropped my idle temperature while sitting on the Windows XP desktop 10 degrees Celsius, down to the mid-40s! Spending another $35 on this PC was worth it. 😀

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Reply 8968 of 27334, by NamelessPlayer

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PTherapist wrote:
Decided to try and give my Mac Mini G4 1.25GHz some purpose, so I installed Mac OS 9.2.2 onto it via the custom setup CD that's […]
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Decided to try and give my Mac Mini G4 1.25GHz some purpose, so I installed Mac OS 9.2.2 onto it via the custom setup CD that's available.

Wow, Mac OS 9 positively flies on this thing! 😲

It's now my fastest classic Mac OS system. Only running on the stock 512MB RAM too, which appears to be more than enough for OS 9.

This Mac Mini is the only G4 Mac I own, as such I've never experienced Mac OS 9 running on G4 hardware before, so it feels insanely fast to me, especially when compared with the OS that originally came with it - Mac OS X 10.3 Panther.

Now to start installing & playing some games. In the past it was never particularly great for playing classic Mac OS games, as it's limited hardware was compounded by the limitations of Classic Environment in Mac OS X. Running OS 9 natively is so much nicer and should make this Mini a lot more fun to use.

OS 9 on a 1+ GHz G4 and a Radeon 9200, like in my MDDs, feels wonderfully responsive (cooperative multitasking notwithstanding, such a shame that it took Apple so long to catch up to the Amiga there), and it'll pretty much manhandle any OS 9-era game you throw at it. Why not try Unreal Tournament or Deus Ex on for size? First-gen Unreal Engine loves fast CPUs like that, x86 and PowerPC alike.

The only drawback is the lack of ADB for Thrustmaster FCS joysticks, if you're getting into pre-InputSprocket flight sims (Flying Nightmares, A-10 Attack!/Cuba!), but other than that, a USB stick and USB Overdrive might do the trick.

brostenen wrote:

If the 4000 has the same circuit as an 1200, when dealing with the sound. Then I know there are a fix-it-up video on YouTube, featuring a 1200, with nearly the same symptoms that you describe. Perhaps it is worth having a look at that video.

Oh, I can find Amiga 1200 videos all day on the subject, but finding Amiga 4000 videos is another matter entirely. Makes sense when the A1200's the affordable home computer and the A4000's the big box expensive workstation, but it makes things a bit confusing when they're referencing different labels from what I see on the A4000 board.

The other troublesome part is that most of the videos mention heavily distorted or no audio on one or both channels, which is not the failure I have here. The OPAMPs in the audio circuit seem fine voltage-wise, but measuring from the respective channel capacitor pads to the resistors just before the RCA outputs shows a couple ohms more resistance on the right one than the left one.

Even so, that doesn't explain why both jacks are outputting the same two channels instead of two different channels each, as designed. It's driving me a bit crazy, since that's the only problem left with this A4000 that I can find. It works just fine otherwise, even if Gloom and Alien Breed 3D (II) are demanding me to get a 68060 or a Vampire.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

They are money drains. I see classic computers like classic cars. The money you put into them you will never ever get back out.

Depends on what classic computers you're pursuing. If it's commodity IBM-compatible PC hardware, you can forget about potentially getting your money back, unless you have some really sought-after sound or graphics cards.

Macs don't fare much better either, except for a select few models like the original 128k/512k, SE/30, Color Classic, and IIfx, possibly 9600, MDD G4 and quad G5 on the PowerPC side of things, and most of those models are either historical or just really nostalgic to the community. Even so, they sold enough of them that they're not too hard to find, and prices are low to maybe a few hundred dollars.

Amigas and X68000s, on the other hand? You'll be paying crazy money to get into those, unless you just luck into meeting the right person locally like I did, but rest assured, you won't have any trouble reselling it all if you get bored, and even stand to make some mad profit if you make non-working systems work again.

I've seen A4000Ts (without keyboard, mouse and monitor, even) and 68060/PowerPC accelerators sell for over $1,000 on eBay recently, as well as a US NTSC Escom A1200 Magic Pack that was new in box. CD32s sell for around $400, Neo-Geo AES levels of pricing. X68000s are harder to gauge, but probably around $700-800 for an XVI, going by what friends told me.

Unfortunately, this sort of takes the fun out of the hobby for me, because half of the appeal for setting up retro computers was that you could do it for dirt cheap. Not so in recent years; Amiga and X68000 aside, the prices on 3dfx cards have skyrocketed, I'm pretty sure the same happened to Gravis Ultrasound cards even earlier than that, and for all I know, ISA Sound Blasters are following suit. My boxed AWE32 CT2760 certainly wasn't cheap.

Reply 8969 of 27334, by dionb

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NamelessPlayer wrote:

[...]

I've seen A4000Ts (without keyboard, mouse and monitor, even) and 68060/PowerPC accelerators sell for over $1,000 on eBay recently, as well as a US NTSC Escom A1200 Magic Pack that was new in box. CD32s sell for around $400, Neo-Geo AES levels of pricing. X68000s are harder to gauge, but probably around $700-800 for an XVI, going by what friends told me.

TBH, people who pay that sort of prices are creating the problem themselves.

Unfortunately, this sort of takes the fun out of the hobby for me, because half of the appeal for setting up retro computers was that you could do it for dirt cheap. Not so in recent years; Amiga and X68000 aside, the prices on 3dfx cards have skyrocketed, I'm pretty sure the same happened to Gravis Ultrasound cards even earlier than that, and for all I know, ISA Sound Blasters are following suit. My boxed AWE32 CT2760 certainly wasn't cheap.

Going for the boxed stuff bumps up the price hugely. If that's your thing fine, but it's a case of very small supply and significant demand. Simple economics says that's not going to be cheap.

Also, time passes. All the stuff you mention was dirt cheap to free when it was about 10-15 years old and being dumped all over the place. Right now the same applies to ~2005 stuff. It doesn't evoke the same level of nostalgia as the older things for us, but you can see the same process happening, and new people getting into the retro thing with stuff that is meaningful to them. One day an Athlon64 X2 Black Edition or a Mac G5 is going to be as sought after as an Ultrasound or an Amiga today.

Back on-topic:
Frustrating day. Apart from wanting to strangle the in-laws, once I eventually got down to my retro stuff, I decided to get some serious re-capping work done. First up was my MSI MS-6199VA. 17 6.3V 1500uF and one 10V 1500uF caps needed replacing. Took a while - the solder was some of the dirtiest non-flowing mess I've encountered. But after about two hours it was done. So stuck a P3, some RAM and a video card into it and...

...no boot 🙁

0b on the POST card, motherboard LEDs indicating CPU init problems. Bugger. Either I messed up some soldering, or the dying caps caused more damage on the way out. No time tonight to figure out which, but hopefully can do so tomorrow. Would be exceedingly miffed if I did all that work for nothing.

Edit:
Forgot that I also got some good things done. Installed a Promise SATA150-TX2Plus into my Packard Bell Voodoo P3 system so I could move the Intel X25E SSD from a SATA-IDE controller on the i440BX ATA-33 to native 150MBps. Hopefully I can upgrade that to a SATA300-TX2Plus later this week. Also replaced the noisy fan with worn bearings in its PSU with a Noctua Low Noise version, and installed a Zalman CNPS6000, but replaced the 80mm (quiet but ineffective) fan with another Noctua, this time a 120mm Redux Low Noise for more airflow without more noise. Just two more mods to do: the onboard Voodoo3-2000 has an awfully noisy little fan. I need to find a big passive heat sink that is nonetheless light enough to stick on (because no mounting holes) that can be cooled by the airflow from the huge 120mm fan. And then do a Tualatin pin mod to upgrade the CPU to P3-1400S.

Reply 8970 of 27334, by brostenen

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Shure you can find Amiga's that are cheaper than ready build 386/486 machines. It is the big box ones, that are the expensive ones. On the other hand. If you want an 486 on the best VLB board, with the fastest VLB VGA card, the best VLB controller, AWE64-Gold and Gravis ultrasound. Well... Then be prepared to spend Amiga-4000 kind of money. Even more expensive, would be to buy the best parts for a K6-3-550+ machine with Voodoo5 and all the other good things. All in all... Amiga's are not really that expensive. It is the good hardware that are really expensive. And then of course, there is the rare models like the Commodore Amiga-4000-Tower. Around 200 machines build. They are like in the league of Voodoo5-6000 range of pricetag.

As I said. Amiga500 OCS model's can be bought for anything between 78 and 150 US Dollars (excluding shipping) and a ready build 486dx2-66 can be bought for anything between 120 and 312 US Dollars (excluding shipping). Shure you need to buy that monitor extra for both machines, yet the Amiga500 comes with keyboard build in and comes with a mouse as standard. And there are still being produced brand new hardware for Amiga500's and there is both a new plastic case production run in the making and there is an Amiga500 motherboard replica in the works. (as well as an Amiga4000 motherboard project)

EDIT:
I did some reserach on 1991/93's money in todays currency. (inflation and stuff). Back when the Amiga3000-UX was first introduced, it was sold at a price tag of roughly 8000 US Dollars in todays money. The 4000 was sold at 2800 US Dollars in todays money.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

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001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 8971 of 27334, by Merovign

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I got 5 of 6 old Macs running today, though the oldest, an original LC, has a dead HD.

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3 of them are Power Computing clones from the late 90s, two 180s and a 225, though the 225 has a 333MHz upgrade. One of those doesn't boot, though it does power up, and I haven't pulled the RAM or PRAM battery yet.

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Obviously there's a little cleaning to do.

There's a G3 tower and a G3 desktop that run. One has a ZIP drive.

I'm using a ViewSonic adapter to hook them to a 19" Dell LCD panel, because funky connector. There's even a really ancient Mac video card with memory cards.

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The funny thing is, I'm a PC guy. I got these systems as partial payment for some Mac repairs/upgrades. I also got a G5 powermac, dual 2.7, which was DESTROYED by a liquid cooling leak. Mobo, processor cards, power supply wrecked. I LOVE those machines for some dumb reason, but I can't seem to get a working one (I sold the one I had).

*Too* *many* *things*!

Reply 8972 of 27334, by root42

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I installed Windows 3.11 on my 286@12MHz with 1 MiB of RAM. That is pushing the limits. 😀 It's pretty fast, but I can only run one program at a time... But the AdLib works and I can listen to canyon.mid. Totally worth it! Still having trouble with the OSSC to show the whole picture ... image quality is good, though!

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YouTube and Bonus
80486DX@33 MHz, 16 MiB RAM, Tseng ET4000 1 MiB, SnarkBarker & GUSar Lite, PC MIDI Card+X2+SC55+MT32, OSSC

Reply 8973 of 27334, by leileilol

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Collecting texels.

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long live PCem

Reply 8974 of 27334, by PTherapist

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Merovign wrote:

The funny thing is, I'm a PC guy. I got these systems as partial payment for some Mac repairs/upgrades. I also got a G5 powermac, dual 2.7, which was DESTROYED by a liquid cooling leak. Mobo, processor cards, power supply wrecked. I LOVE those machines for some dumb reason, but I can't seem to get a working one (I sold the one I had).

That's one of the reasons I avoided those liquid cooled G5s back in the day, never trusted the stuff not to leak and destroy the whole computer.

root42 wrote:

I installed Windows 3.11 on my 286@12MHz with 1 MiB of RAM. That is pushing the limits. 😀 It's pretty fast, but I can only run one program at a time... But the AdLib works and I can listen to canyon.mid. Totally worth it! Still having trouble with the OSSC to show the whole picture ... image quality is good, though!

I too have 3.11 installed on the same spec of PC. It is quite usable, like you noted, with 1 program at a time. I reckon with a bit more RAM, 3.11 on a 286 would run quite nicely.

Reply 8975 of 27334, by Merovign

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PTherapist wrote:

That's one of the reasons I avoided those liquid cooled G5s back in the day, never trusted the stuff not to leak and destroy the whole computer.

Ironically, the consensus now is that it was unnecessary, and it's perfectly safe to replace the liquid cooler with stock air heat sinks.

*Too* *many* *things*!

Reply 8976 of 27334, by luckybob

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Merovign wrote:
PTherapist wrote:

That's one of the reasons I avoided those liquid cooled G5s back in the day, never trusted the stuff not to leak and destroy the whole computer.

Ironically, the consensus now is that it was unnecessary, and it's perfectly safe to replace the liquid cooler with stock air heat sinks.

Shame it just isn't really worth the cost.

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.

Reply 8977 of 27334, by BeginnerGuy

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I always wanted a G5 even though I have minimal interest in OSX or power pc. They just looked glorious and sounded like they may take off and hover above the ground under load.

If I had the spare room I'd get one, leaking water and all 😎

My retro activity today has just been peroxide treating the front of my 486s case.. Recording that and making myself a 486 build youtube video because why not, one more nerd building a PC on youtube couldn't hurt. (not done yet).

Sup. I like computers. Are you a computer?

Reply 8978 of 27334, by ssokolow

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PTherapist wrote:
root42 wrote:

I installed Windows 3.11 on my 286@12MHz with 1 MiB of RAM. That is pushing the limits. 😀 It's pretty fast, but I can only run one program at a time... But the AdLib works and I can listen to canyon.mid. Totally worth it! Still having trouble with the OSSC to show the whole picture ... image quality is good, though!

I too have 3.11 installed on the same spec of PC. It is quite usable, like you noted, with 1 program at a time. I reckon with a bit more RAM, 3.11 on a 286 would run quite nicely.

Reminds me of the 386 with 2MiB and Windows 3.1 that was our first family computer. (As opposed to playing around on my father's work laptops.)

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I also try to announce retro-relevant stuff on on Mastodon.

Reply 8979 of 27334, by ssokolow

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aleksej wrote:
ssokolow wrote:

Also, I found another nostalgic, elegant, and useful shell extension in my old DVD+R backups and uploaded it: Something to add the Registry as one of the namespaces in My Computer.

Registry access in "My Computer" folder? 1.5mb zipped? Elegant? Really? 😕
Anyway, icon is good for simple regedit.exe link.

Perhaps today's upload would be more to your taste? It's at most 1/10th the size of the My Computer solution and just extends regedit.exe with a history dropdown that persists its data across sessions.

https://archive.org/details/RegEditX

NOTE: The screenshot doesn't show "Localize" in the history dropdown because I hadn't yet focused the right-hand pane when I took the screenshot.

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Internet Archive: My Uploads
My Blog: Retrocomputing Resources
My Rose-Coloured-Glasses Builds

I also try to announce retro-relevant stuff on on Mastodon.