ssokolow wrote:

Speaking of which, as fellow enthusiasts who probably collect things, there's something I've never really been clear on. What's a good heuristic for determining when "I look at my collection of X and want to share some fraction of that glee" might come across as tactless and/or bragging?

When your glee is about something that many people want but just can't have. Either because it's too expensive, or just impossible to find.

Like say a fully functioning 3dfx Rampage.

stamasd wrote:

ssokolow wrote:

Speaking of which, as fellow enthusiasts who probably collect things, there's something I've never really been clear on. What's a good heuristic for determining when "I look at my collection of X and want to share some fraction of that glee" might come across as tactless and/or bragging?

When your glee is about something that many people want but just can't have. Either because it's too expensive, or just impossible to find.

Like say a fully functioning 3dfx Rampage.

I get that, but I was more thinking of collections or portions of collections. (What reminded me of the question was when I decided to take a photo to document my development tool CDs now that the Delphi CD has been added.)

It's not really that clear when you have a lot of items, where availability of many of the items varies independently by time and place and the unattainability of the collection as an aggregate whole is is less about supply and demand and more about how long you've been doing it and how much work you pour into it (directly or indirectly) per unit time.

(Especially given that I generally aim to buy the inexpensive stuff first, to shrink my to-get list as quickly as possible.)

ssokolow wrote:

Speaking of which, as fellow enthusiasts who probably collect things, there's something I've never really been clear on. What's a good heuristic for determining when "I look at my collection of X and want to share some fraction of that glee" might come across as tactless and/or bragging?

I think I have to say "meh" to that. I mean, yeah, I see stuff I haven't been able to find (or has been ruinously expensive, at least for shipping), and that is what it is. I have some huge holes in my collection that don't look like they're going to be filled, partly because the local market got sucked dry for various reasons. But it's also cool to see someone who is taking care of stuff that's kind of odd or rare or even just old.

One thing that I noticed is that pretty much everyone brags on how they got things cheap/free. That's kind of normal, I do it too, but I've also kind of given up on trying to sell/trade stuff because the "prevailing culture" demands getting things free or almost free, or no bragging rights. I've had several people pull out after failing to negotiate a deal where I basically pay half the shipping cost and they don't actually pay for the item. Hey, I get it, I don't have any money either, that's why I tried to sell some stuff. But if there's no buyer money, it kind of explains why the sellers aren't very enthusiastic either. It's kind of a depressed market.

Speaking of bragging on collections, no pictures of the repaired connector on the eMac because it looks like it was soldered by a monkey with bad eyesight (but it tones out okay). But though this stuff was moved a couple of days ago, I did at least get some computers off the floor:

I do have the drive bay covers for the "Mac Clone" PowerTowerPro 225 on the right, they're just not installed. On top of it is a 16" screen Compaq 3000 laptop (they have about 11 laptops with that number, makes finding drivers fun), this one has a *desktop* P4 in it, not a P4 mobile. The Sony Vaio mini with the stickers in front is a PIII-750 with a Rage Pro 128 and has the original keyboard, mouse, and proprietary-connector widescreen LCD monitor with speakers. I'm going to do something about the leaning system of Pisa on the left there, but I kind of hurt my back today so not yet,

Merovign wrote:

One thing that I noticed is that pretty much everyone brags on how they got things cheap/free. That's kind of normal, I do it too, but I've also kind of given up on trying to sell/trade stuff because the "prevailing culture" demands getting things free or almost free, or no bragging rights. I've had several people pull out after failing to negotiate a deal where I basically pay half the shipping cost and they don't actually pay for the item. Hey, I get it, I don't have any money either, that's why I tried to sell some stuff. But if there's no buyer money, it kind of explains why the sellers aren't very enthusiastic either. It's kind of a depressed market.

Ahh. You won't see that from me. I have a very "do unto others..." approach to things and the closest I come to trying to haggle is occasionally asking an eBay seller if they'd be willing to enable a less expensive shipping option.

Mainly, I just use eBay followed searches, CamelCamelCamel's Amazon Marketplace price watches, and Kijiji's "search as RSS feed" functionality combined with checking the local pawn shop and the local used game shop's "3 for $15" bin of PC software. (The thrift stores are too far out of the way to be reasonable to check regularly when I carpool into town.)

If a classified seller says "name a fair price", I don't even bother. It's just not worth the time and stress to figure out what they consider a fair price.

I'm also not really the "bragging rights" type, which is why my rose-coloured builds link isn't so much "look what I acquired" as "look at what I built and, if it inspires you, here are the tools and techniques in case you want to do something similar". If I want to share something that is just a collection of things I acquired, the impulse behind it is more in the vein of a puppy trying to get a pat on the head from people who clearly have some mixture of living space, budget, and/or geographic location to do more than I ever can. (Partly because, a few years ago, I realized "Holy crap! I'm not just a packrat... I have a collecting hobby!" for several disjoint areas: books, games, and retro-computing.)

In the vintage hardware market please go ahead and brag. It lets me know that at least this hardware is in good hands and being taken care of instead of being recycled. Also, I find it as much fun to watch someone acquire this stuff and restore it as if I was doing it myself.

liqmat wrote:

In the vintage hardware market please go ahead and brag. It lets me know that at least this hardware is in good hands and being taken care of instead of being recycled. Also, I find it as much fun to watch someone acquire this stuff and restore it as if I was doing it myself.

A fellow fan of The 8-Bit Guy, I'm guessing?

liqmat wrote:

In the vintage hardware market please go ahead and brag. It lets me know that at least this hardware is in good hands and being taken care of instead of being recycled. Also, I find it as much fun to watch someone acquire this stuff and restore it as if I was doing it myself.

I agree. None of us will ever have everything we want, but we all get our moments and we can enjoy seeing what other people are finding and tinkering with.

Merovign wrote:

One thing that I noticed is that pretty much everyone brags on how they got things cheap/free. That's kind of normal, I do it too, but I've also kind of given up on trying to sell/trade stuff because the "prevailing culture" demands getting things free or almost free, or no bragging rights.

It can be uncomfortable to talk about paying a higher or even average market price for something, because that can lead to insults about spending too much or questioning why you have more money in your bank account than the other person does. Some people get sensitive and hostile about money.
If you say you got lucky and found something cheap, then it seems more like happenstance and everybody is happy.
If I mention owning something that's expensive nowadays, I feel compelled to offer an "explanation" of how or when I got it because it feels less like bragging that way, at least where money is concerned.
But you're right, when everybody downplays the cost of everything, it does lead to an expectation for things to be cheaper than they really are.

ssokolow wrote:

A fellow fan of The 8-Bit Guy, I'm guessing?

I can’t decide whether I like the guy or think he is a secret asshole. There is something about him that just screams jerk to me but I respect what he does.

Yes, don't worry about coming across as bragging.

First of all, we're all functioning adults and can handle the fact that somebody else has an item that we don't have, is expensive or not available (well, most of us, I'm thinking about one person in this forums in particular has a bit of difficulty coping with it sometimes). And yes, I am sometimes a bit jealous too, but in a positive way ("I'd like that gadget too" or "snap, he paid next to nothing for that"), not in a negative way ("damn Vogoners, coming to ebay and stealing our old hardware").

Secondly, there is some pleasure to be derived from both showing that we managed to find something rare and from hearing from others "wow, that is a cool thing". This might be just me, but I suspect more of us get a warm, fuzzy feeling from external approval (I don't know many people with whom I can talk about old computers in real life, YMMV).

Thirdly, there is actual informational value in this - I know that some Vogoners have specific pieces of hardware or knowledge of certain areas of vintage computing and I know that I can ask them, should I need advice. There are experts in sound or video cards here, some folks have a huge collection of weird things or rare laptops. I happen to have a couple of plasma laptops and quasi-non-existent Tandon Hercules desktop, glad to help anyone who asks.

Fourthly, I personally (and I suspect some others too) like seeing cool old hardware, even if it is somebody else's hands - both on aesthetic and informational level. This way I've found out about some components and computers that I have never come across before. Case in point: first Compaq Deskpro with its beige-black plastics - I so want this one to sit on my desk one day.

Of course, feel free to disagree. That's just, like, my opinion, man.

appiah4 wrote:

ssokolow wrote:

A fellow fan of The 8-Bit Guy, I'm guessing?

I can’t decide whether I like the guy or think he is a secret asshole. There is something about him that just screams jerk to me but I respect what he does.

Well, I think he is less charismatic than say LGR or Techmoan, but a bit more stiff. But also he is extremely organized, does his stuff with perfection and just makes very entertaining videos. I guess that is just his way. Hence he might come across as a bit less lovable, but I think with both his channels he deserves to be in the top 5 of retro computer geeks on YouTube, and I definitely watch all of his videos, since I can learn something in each of them.

But does he have an "8-bit foods" channel? 😀

ssokolow wrote:

Ahh. You won't see that from me. I have a very "do unto others..." approach to things and the closest I come to trying to haggle is occasionally asking an eBay seller if they'd be willing to enable a less expensive shipping option.

I practically beg people to tell me about less expensive shipping options. 😀 I remember when it was comparatively dirt cheap. I did a lot of deal flipping in the late 90s and early 2000s, back when you could get amazing deals from office supply stores etc. Did a lot of shipping.

ssokolow wrote:

Mainly, I just use eBay followed searches, CamelCamelCamel's Amazon Marketplace price watches, and Kijiji's "search as RSS feed" functionality combined with checking the local pawn shop and the local used game shop's "3 for $15" bin of PC software. (The thrift stores are too far out of the way to be reasonable to check regularly when I carpool into town.)

Thanks for the source tips, and the thrift shops around here are so stripped it's sad. Some years ago the recyclers started grabbing all the stuff up and shipping it to China, and it drained all the stores. The car recyclers did the same thing 15-20 years ago, and it's cheaper for me to buy used car parts from 1000 miles away, including shipping, than to buy them locally.

I'm hoping that China cutting back on handling other people's trash will leave more here, but I think it will probably be all 5-7 year old stuff, I think almost all of what I'm missing from my collection, AT-486 era, is either forgotten in attics or just gone by now, locally. I have a ton of parts but no systems.

Anyway, yeah, back to what retro stuff people did today!

Merovign wrote:

Speaking of bragging on collections, no pictures of the repaired connector on the eMac because it looks like it was soldered by a monkey with bad eyesight (but it tones out okay). But though this stuff was moved a couple of days ago, I did at least get some computers off the floor:

shelf1.jpg

Ok, I just had to post this. That poor, poor AT case on the desk, on the far left, hanging on by the skin of its teeth..

🤣

ssokolow wrote:

liqmat wrote:

In the vintage hardware market please go ahead and brag. It lets me know that at least this hardware is in good hands and being taken care of instead of being recycled. Also, I find it as much fun to watch someone acquire this stuff and restore it as if I was doing it myself.

A fellow fan of The 8-Bit Guy, I'm guessing?

I don't follow any particular trends or personalities to be honest, but I am all for sharing knowledge. That's the whole point to this hobby IMO. So if the 8-bit Guy is offering that, I'm all for it. I strictly collect what I find and then categorize where an item goes. If it's rare, I find a museum that wants it. If it's less than rare, but still desirable I try to find a serious collector/preservationist. If I have plenty of one thing then sometimes Ebay, but usually for a $1 starting bid. I try to stick by the rule, let the market decide the price. I barely have anything I actually keep except for diagnostic and repair gear. I strictly want to save this stuff so future generations can understand where their super holographic 256-bit 100 terabyte AI smartphone came from.

I will tell you what I am a fan of is the Living Computers: Museum + Labs in Seattle and founded by Paul Allen. The key attraction to this place is 1.) visitors can interact with many of the maintained and functioning vintage hardware and 2.) an entire replica data center with functioning vintage mainframes and servers for you to walk through. An amazing place really.

I also might add that all of you people here at Vogons and the members at Vcfed keep me inspired and am grateful that these forums exist. Most people out in the wild just look at me with a strange look when I tell them that I save old hardware. There are a few that appreciate and understand it. I always like to surround myself with people that are smarter than me. Keeps life interesting.

appiah4 wrote:

Ok, I just had to post this. That poor, poor AT case on the desk, on the far left, hanging on by the skin of its teeth..

🤣

Didn't notice that. Love it! It's whimpering in a soft voice, "heeeelp me!"

appiah4 wrote:

ssokolow wrote:

A fellow fan of The 8-Bit Guy, I'm guessing?

I can’t decide whether I like the guy or think he is a secret asshole. There is something about him that just screams jerk to me but I respect what he does.

I've been watching his videos occasionally and found them generally well-made and interesting. However I have to admit I started liking him a bit less when I stumbled on the video he made about his gun 😵

My stack of floppy drives testing/cleaning/repairing continued yesterday until I went to test a 5.25" drive and discovered the circuit boiard is cracked near the power plug and a few traces are broken.

Going to have to pick up a new "bottle" of Loctite superglue to fix the board itself. Then on to fixing the traces and resoldering the power plug connections.

A few of the drives I had in my "dead" pile are actually working now after blowing them out with my air compressor and cleaning the heads with a q-tip and alcohol.

I've also been cleaning old dirty/dry lube off drives that need it and re-lubing with Mobile-1 synthetic bearing grease. It made a huge difference to one of the 5.25" slim drives I have. It is pretty much completely silent now instead of super chattery when moving the head around. And it actually works now.

OldCat wrote:

Fourthly, I personally (and I suspect some others too) like seeing cool old hardware, even if it is somebody else's hands - both on aesthetic and informational level. This way I've found out about some components and computers that I have never come across before. Case in point: first Compaq Deskpro with its beige-black plastics - I so want this one to sit on my desk one day.

What about CD-ROMs (or, occasionally, music CDs) that, until I ran across them, had little to no existence on the web because nobody wanted them when they were new and that hasn't changed in the intervening years?

(eg. I'm responsible for several of the entries on MobyGames and MusicBrainz where, prior to my putting them up, the only mention of said items on the web (or at least, on the English web) was a barely-more-than-a-title listing on Amazon Marketplace or the UPC database and/or an oh-so-90s personal webpage that mentions them.)

For example, a terrible shovelware Tetris clone that just happens to have a worthwhile Redbook Audio track (which doesn't play in the game because the game uses Amiga Modules for BGM) that someone else uploaded to YouTube or the CD-ROM re-release of the more popular of the songs from a Canadian show from the early 1960s through the early 1970s that was instrumental in popularizing the folk song "Farewell to Nova Scotia".

liqmat wrote:

ssokolow wrote:

A fellow fan of The 8-Bit Guy, I'm guessing?

I don't follow any particular trends or personalities to be honest, but I am all for sharing knowledge. That's the whole point to this hobby IMO. So if the 8-bit Guy is offering that, I'm all for it.

I should probably have clarified since I have a very loose relationship with the term "fan".

The last time I allowed myself the risk of becoming that emotionally-invested in a person or brand was back before high school, so, when I said "fellow fan", it was really just a sloppy way of saying "fellow enjoyer of content produced by".

The 8-Bit Guy puts a very satisfying amount of work into his restorations and a satisfying amount of detail into his videos about them.

liqmat wrote:

I will tell you what I am a fan of is the Living Computers: Museum + Labs in Seattle and founded by Paul Allen. The key attraction to this place is 1.) visitors can interact with many of the maintained and functioning vintage hardware and 2.) an entire replica data center with functioning vintage mainframes and servers for you to walk through. I also am trying to help The Strong in Rochester, NY build up their vintage computer collection as well as I find and restore systems. The Strong has one of the world's largest video game, game prototypes and game design document collections. They have an entire research wing where you can schedule an appointment, study their collection and use appropriate vintage hardware. An amazing place really.

They sound amazing. Definitely both places I'd love to visit, some day, if the U.S. ever gets their health care and gun violence problems sufficiently solved and I gain a budget sufficient for international travel. (I have a very risk-averse personality.)

MMaximus wrote:

I've been watching his videos occasionally and found them generally well-made and interesting. However I have to admit I started liking him a bit less when I stumbled on the video he made about his gun 😵

I haven't seen that video but, given that he lives in Texas, I kind of suspected that. I enjoy him for the content he produces and try to adopt a "live and let live" attitude toward anything objectionable which doesn't leak across the border.

If I were judging people like that, the number of Americans who weren't "worrying people to avoid and disapprove of" for something or other would be miniscule. (Or even Europeans, for that matter, given that religious faith, by definition, doesn't really fit the definition of "a worldview rooted in logic, reason, and empirical evidence".)

cyclone3d wrote:

Going to have to pick up a new "bottle" of Loctite superglue to fix the board itself. Then on to fixing the traces and resoldering the power plug connections.

Would this be a "wicks into cracks by capillary action method" suitable for reinforcing a crack that propagated outward from a hole for a support pin?

I had to scrape the solder mask off of and solder-bridge three points on the opposite side in order to get Start and Select working again. (Not bad for a "$5, for parts" controller, but I'd like something more robust than the "Not for use by rage-grippers" sticker I put on the back cover.)

...if so, what are your detailed instructions for doing it and will it work with any superglue with the consistency of water?

ssokolow wrote:

Would this be a "wicks into cracks by capillary action method suitable for reinforcing a crack that propagated outward from a hole for a support pin?

Why did this movie scene come to my mind after your statement above? 😀

https://youtu.be/t5Oqf4NfAIk?t=80

liqmat wrote:

ssokolow wrote:

Would this be a "wicks into cracks by capillary action method" suitable for reinforcing a crack that propagated outward from a hole for a support pin?

Why did this movie scene come to my mind after your statement above? 😀

https://youtu.be/t5Oqf4NfAIk?t=80

Because I'm an aspie and much of my life has been spent learning when excessive verbosity and vocabulary are counterproductive? 😜