VOGONS


Reply 23280 of 23641, by Socket3

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I was looking through a lot of more modern machines I picked up for free from an institution. Mostly low end core 2 duo and AM2 machines - good source of disk drives and DDR2, the latter of which I oddly have very little of - and decided (out of boredom) to try and install windows 98 on one of them.

I picked out a Core 2 Duo e4400 with 2GB of DDR2 and a Gigabyte i945 mainboard. I took off half of the ram, put a PCI-E Geforce 6600GT in it and to my surprise, windows 98 SE installed and ran perfectly! I even managed to partition the SATA 160gb disk drive using win98's fdisk, despite it incorrectly reporting total disk size as 20gb instead of 160gb, by using the percentage trick. I wanted an 8gb partition for win98 and typed down 5% - and voila! Oh and I installed PATCHMEM at first boot to avoid the "out of memory" error.

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I did encounter an issue when installing the graphics card... I managed to install intel's chipset drivers and dx8 just fine, and when I got to the graphics driver (66.93 - earliest driver that supports the 6600gt) it somehow installed the 6600 along side the "standard graphics adapter" that installed with the OS, as such the 6600 driver was allocated no resources and showed up with an exclamation mark in device manager. I had to manually remove both drivers and restart the PC. After doing that, it detected the monitor but was still in 16 color mode. I switched to 16 bit 800x600, restarted and it everything worked as it should. The video card is even detected as PCI-E 16x in the nvidia control panel.

These kinds of builds are great for someone just getting into the hobby. A cheap or freebee PC like this, paired with a supported PCI sound card (in my case a Yamaha DS-XG) an a PCI-E card with windows 98 driers (Radeon x300/x600/x700/x800 and nvidia 6200/6600/6800) makes for an easy way of playing retro games on real hardware. It can of course even dual-boot windows XP.

Next up - clean up the garage!!!..... yeah...

Reply 23281 of 23641, by HanSolo

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MarkP wrote on 2022-11-26, 07:11:
Shreddoc wrote on 2022-11-26, 06:48:

You will need to do your own research to determine which particular brake cleaner products contain tetrachloroethylene, if you consider it's dangers worthy of avoidance.

People who value good health (of themselves, their families, and the environment) will tend to avoid the indiscriminate long term usage of tetrachloroethylene products, based upon scientific consensus, such as that I posted directly above in links.

I hope you haven't been unknowingly using tetrachloroethylene products all this time, Mark P. But it sounds as though I'm unlikely to convince you about anything at this stage, so my warnings about the substance are primarily for the community's sake.

You really really are on a different planet dude. Go hug a tree.

Most members here can make up there own own minds what to use to clean their computer related boards.

Not everybody is an expert on everything. And open forums are not only read by its members.
So I appreciate the warning about brake cleaners.

Reply 23282 of 23641, by PcBytes

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Socket3 wrote on 2022-11-27, 10:59:
I was looking through a lot of more modern machines I picked up for free from an institution. Mostly low end core 2 duo and AM2 […]
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I was looking through a lot of more modern machines I picked up for free from an institution. Mostly low end core 2 duo and AM2 machines - good source of disk drives and DDR2, the latter of which I oddly have very little of - and decided (out of boredom) to try and install windows 98 on one of them.

I picked out a Core 2 Duo e4400 with 2GB of DDR2 and a Gigabyte i945 mainboard. I took off half of the ram, put a PCI-E Geforce 6600GT in it and to my surprise, windows 98 SE installed and ran perfectly! I even managed to partition the SATA 160gb disk drive using win98's fdisk, despite it incorrectly reporting total disk size as 20gb instead of 160gb, by using the percentage trick. I wanted an 8gb partition for win98 and typed down 5% - and voila! Oh and I installed PATCHMEM at first boot to avoid the "out of memory" error.

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I did encounter an issue when installing the graphics card... I managed to install intel's chipset drivers and dx8 just fine, and when I got to the graphics driver (66.93 - earliest driver that supports the 6600gt) it somehow installed the 6600 along side the "standard graphics adapter" that installed with the OS, as such the 6600 driver was allocated no resources and showed up with an exclamation mark in device manager. I had to manually remove both drivers and restart the PC. After doing that, it detected the monitor but was still in 16 color mode. I switched to 16 bit 800x600, restarted and it everything worked as it should. The video card is even detected as PCI-E 16x in the nvidia control panel.

These kinds of builds are great for someone just getting into the hobby. A cheap or freebee PC like this, paired with a supported PCI sound card (in my case a Yamaha DS-XG) an a PCI-E card with windows 98 driers (Radeon x300/x600/x700/x800 and nvidia 6200/6600/6800) makes for an easy way of playing retro games on real hardware. It can of course even dual-boot windows XP.

Next up - clean up the garage!!!..... yeah...

Should I feel proud that I own a similar Delux case? 🤣

Granted, mine surprisingly came with a K8T800 Pro based Sempron machine, of all things that it could hide in it.

"Enter at your own peril, past the bolted door..."
Main PC: i5 3470, GB B75M-D3H, 16GB RAM, 2x1TB
98SE : P3 650, Soyo SY-6BA+IV, 384MB RAM, 80GB

Reply 23283 of 23641, by dionb

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Ugh, not my best day today...

Got a lot of 6 early VLB cards with obscure IIT/Xtec AGX016A chips on them. Reputedly slow XGA-clones, but actually support higher graphics modes with >1MB RAM, so interesting nonetheless - and 6 VLB cards that didn't cost me at least a single kidney isn't at all bad in any case. Assuming they work of course.

So I dusted off my VLB test bench (Cyrix 5x86-100 on a UMC-based board) and - nothing, not even with the original Cirrus Logic CL-GD5428 in it. Bugger. Test system died on me. Tested my early PCI tet bench (Cyrix 5x86-100 on a UMC PCI-based board, for nice 1:1 comparisons) which fortunately did work without issues. Swapped out PSUs and RAM: nope, both work in the PCI set, not VLB. So swapped CPU. Good news: both CPUs still fine. Bad news: must be the motherboard then.

Worse news: broke the little plastic clips holding the heatsink onto one of the 5x86s while doing that. So now have a board to fix and a new clip to source or bodge. And I still don't know if these VLB cards do anything.

Fortunately I do have alternatives, another VLB-based 486 system running my old sound cards and a Pentium VLB system, but both are built into irritting AT minitowers with cables out the back that are hard to reach. Oh, and there's my Alaris Leopard 2, which is in a NOS case (generic, not IBM) in its original packaging at the back of the cupboard waiting for suitable display options. Come to think of it, that would be the ideal pairing with an early, oddball card. It would however require the card to run happily in 16b VLB mode. Oh well, time to get digging and testing.

Reply 23284 of 23641, by Socket3

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PcBytes wrote on 2022-11-27, 12:47:
Socket3 wrote on 2022-11-27, 10:59:
I was looking through a lot of more modern machines I picked up for free from an institution. Mostly low end core 2 duo and AM2 […]
Show full quote

I was looking through a lot of more modern machines I picked up for free from an institution. Mostly low end core 2 duo and AM2 machines - good source of disk drives and DDR2, the latter of which I oddly have very little of - and decided (out of boredom) to try and install windows 98 on one of them.

I picked out a Core 2 Duo e4400 with 2GB of DDR2 and a Gigabyte i945 mainboard. I took off half of the ram, put a PCI-E Geforce 6600GT in it and to my surprise, windows 98 SE installed and ran perfectly! I even managed to partition the SATA 160gb disk drive using win98's fdisk, despite it incorrectly reporting total disk size as 20gb instead of 160gb, by using the percentage trick. I wanted an 8gb partition for win98 and typed down 5% - and voila! Oh and I installed PATCHMEM at first boot to avoid the "out of memory" error.

2.jpeg

3.jpeg

I did encounter an issue when installing the graphics card... I managed to install intel's chipset drivers and dx8 just fine, and when I got to the graphics driver (66.93 - earliest driver that supports the 6600gt) it somehow installed the 6600 along side the "standard graphics adapter" that installed with the OS, as such the 6600 driver was allocated no resources and showed up with an exclamation mark in device manager. I had to manually remove both drivers and restart the PC. After doing that, it detected the monitor but was still in 16 color mode. I switched to 16 bit 800x600, restarted and it everything worked as it should. The video card is even detected as PCI-E 16x in the nvidia control panel.

These kinds of builds are great for someone just getting into the hobby. A cheap or freebee PC like this, paired with a supported PCI sound card (in my case a Yamaha DS-XG) an a PCI-E card with windows 98 driers (Radeon x300/x600/x700/x800 and nvidia 6200/6600/6800) makes for an easy way of playing retro games on real hardware. It can of course even dual-boot windows XP.

Next up - clean up the garage!!!..... yeah...

Should I feel proud that I own a similar Delux case? 🤣

Granted, mine surprisingly came with a K8T800 Pro based Sempron machine, of all things that it could hide in it.

Well these are pretty common in our corner of the world. And those beige / clear blue atx cases ultra-pro sold back in the day. OLX is full of them.

Reply 23285 of 23641, by MarkP

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HanSolo wrote on 2022-11-27, 11:27:
. […]
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MarkP wrote on 2022-11-26, 07:11:
Shreddoc wrote on 2022-11-26, 06:48:

You will need to do your own research to determine which particular brake cleaner products contain tetrachloroethylene, if you consider it's dangers worthy of avoidance.

People who value good health (of themselves, their families, and the environment) will tend to avoid the indiscriminate long term usage of tetrachloroethylene products, based upon scientific consensus, such as that I posted directly above in links.

I hope you haven't been unknowingly using tetrachloroethylene products all this time, Mark P. But it sounds as though I'm unlikely to convince you about anything at this stage, so my warnings about the substance are primarily for the community's sake.

You really really are on a different planet dude. Go hug a tree.

Most members here can make up there own own minds what to use to clean their computer related boards.

.

Not everybody is an expert on everything. And open forums are not only read by its members.
So I appreciate the warning about brake cleaners.

Read the Material Safety Date Sheet or warning on the back of the can before buying or using it then for Petes sake-common sense as it were

That is what the EXPERTS do and obviously not done by over sensitive tree huggers.

As I've mentioned before-Facts don't care about feelings....

Reply 23286 of 23641, by chrismeyer6

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dionb wrote on 2022-11-27, 13:02:
Ugh, not my best day today... […]
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Ugh, not my best day today...

Got a lot of 6 early VLB cards with obscure IIT/Xtec AGX016A chips on them. Reputedly slow XGA-clones, but actually support higher graphics modes with >1MB RAM, so interesting nonetheless - and 6 VLB cards that didn't cost me at least a single kidney isn't at all bad in any case. Assuming they work of course.

So I dusted off my VLB test bench (Cyrix 5x86-100 on a UMC-based board) and - nothing, not even with the original Cirrus Logic CL-GD5428 in it. Bugger. Test system died on me. Tested my early PCI tet bench (Cyrix 5x86-100 on a UMC PCI-based board, for nice 1:1 comparisons) which fortunately did work without issues. Swapped out PSUs and RAM: nope, both work in the PCI set, not VLB. So swapped CPU. Good news: both CPUs still fine. Bad news: must be the motherboard then.

Worse news: broke the little plastic clips holding the heatsink onto one of the 5x86s while doing that. So now have a board to fix and a new clip to source or bodge. And I still don't know if these VLB cards do anything.

Fortunately I do have alternatives, another VLB-based 486 system running my old sound cards and a Pentium VLB system, but both are built into irritting AT minitowers with cables out the back that are hard to reach. Oh, and there's my Alaris Leopard 2, which is in a NOS case (generic, not IBM) in its original packaging at the back of the cupboard waiting for suitable display options. Come to think of it, that would be the ideal pairing with an early, oddball card. It would however require the card to run happily in 16b VLB mode. Oh well, time to get digging and testing.

Kind of a long shot but does happen. Did you check your bios battery? I've had a number of boards both old and newer that play dead when the bios battery is either miss or dead.

Reply 23287 of 23641, by Shponglefan

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Did some cable management my XP machine following its upgrade, while reminding myself how much I do not enjoy cable management.

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Tandy 1000 TL build
286 Epson build
Ultimate Windows XP build

Reply 23288 of 23641, by Demetrio

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Finally got a working CRT monitor for my Pentium II PC 😁

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Reply 23289 of 23641, by dionb

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chrismeyer6 wrote on 2022-11-27, 18:02:

[...]

Kind of a long shot but does happen. Did you check your bios battery? I've had a number of boards both old and newer that play dead when the bios battery is either miss or dead.

Tnx, but checked that already. Old Varta replaced long ago, have a 3-battery external pack attached now. Still gives 3.6V, tried a different one on the boards, but no luck.

Reply 23290 of 23641, by BetaC

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Over the past week and a half I have been getting my Umax SuperMac C600 up and running, and I’m happy I did.

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Now if only 5v 168-pin EDO wasn’t dumb expensive.

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Reply 23291 of 23641, by Thermalwrong

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Nice setup, seems odd to see Mac OS on a Dell (monitor) 😀 It looks like the case may have been made by the same manufacturer as Dell's ATX systems from that era, lotsa plastic but really nicely made.

I've got this Thinkpad 240 laptop that I put back together from all the remaining parts and got it running with some repairs. But there are some parts missing, so far I've made the hinge covers just measuring some real ones and those fit really well - my FDM printer and PETG filament are letting things down and I may have to try out resin at this rate. But something I've not been able to make by eye is the hard drive caddy / cover. These are super rare for the Thinkpad 240 series now, since well, it's a special caddy connector for a 23 year old laptop.
Using my 3d scanner I've been able to copy the one I do have that isn't spare for this particular Thinkpad 240 - I have a 240, 240X and 240Z, only 2 full caddies with covers and they've got parts broken like the plastic mounting tabs. Now this full cover in CAD means I can print out more as needed. The test print fit beautifully and looks good for an FDM 3d print, it's really quite big in 3d print world but only a 2.5" drive.

This one was especially neat because the complex curve part just remains as a 3d scan while the flat part is all CAD shapes so they can be modified easily.

Now that I've got a working design, I can modify it to fit new stuff! So far here's my design to fit an mSATA SSD where the big old hard drive went:

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I think another good one to have would be the compact flash to 50 pin adapter

Reply 23292 of 23641, by bjwil1991

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Demetrio wrote on 2022-11-27, 19:23:

Finally got a working CRT monitor for my Pentium II PC 😁

Man, I love CRTs. Great space heaters in the harsh winters, beautiful black levels, crisp picture, and sharper than flat panel displays/TV sets. If I could get my PVM-1341's digital RGB working (possible misconfiguration inside for the intensity drive), I'll connect my systems that use CGA or EGA to the set in no time.

Discord: https://discord.gg/U5dJw7x
Systems from the Compaq Portable 1 to Ryzen 5 2600X
Twitch: https://twitch.tv/retropcuser

Reply 23293 of 23641, by rasz_pl

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Demetrio wrote on 2022-11-27, 19:23:

Finally got a working CRT monitor for my Pentium II PC 😁

those speakers take me right back, I can hear need for speed wheel spin sound just looking at them 😀

Reply 23294 of 23641, by PD2JK

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Let's get this EME 279TD 'back on track'.

*puts on sunglasses .... YEAHHH!

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i386 16 / AMD DX2-66 / Pentium MMX 200 / BP6 Dual Celeron 433 / Athlon Orion 700 + TB 1000 / PIII-S 1400 / AthlonXP 1700+ / Opteron 165

Reply 23295 of 23641, by buckeye

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Shponglefan wrote on 2022-11-27, 18:26:

Did some cable management my XP machine following its upgrade, while reminding myself how much I do not enjoy cable management.

You and me both. My Xp rig needs some serious cable management and I'm not well gifted in that area.

Intel D865GL Pentium 4 2.4ghz. 512MB DDR 400 Geforce2 GTS 64MB SB Audigy 500W 98SE
Intel SE440BX P3 450 256MB 40GB Voodoo 3000 16MB SB 32pnp 350W 98SE
MSI x570 Gaming Pro Carbon Ryzen 3700x 32GB DDR4 Zotac RTX 3070 8GB WD Black 1TB 850W

Reply 23296 of 23641, by Shponglefan

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Testing out games on my upgraded XP machine ran into an issue when testing Far Cry. I started getting extremely loud coil whine from the system.

Naturally since I had just replaced the motherboard and CPU, I assumed that the new hardware was the culprit. I then spent several hours playing with BIOS settings changing voltages, power management options, turbo settings, etc. Nothing worked.

Finally realized the problem is just Far Cry. I didn't realize that the game doesn't have a frame limiter and it was rendering hundreds of frames per second and pushing the system to the limit.

Forcing vsync via the nVidia control panel solved the problem. No more coil whine.

Screw you, Far Cry. You wasted my evening.

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Tandy 1000 TL build
286 Epson build
Ultimate Windows XP build

Reply 23297 of 23641, by Radical Vision

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Tested the stuff i got, most of these HDD was ded or with bad sectors... The 3Dfx cards dont have signal as well for some reason LMAO... But the MVP of this lot was that Western Digital 40MB, that just works, and even have DOS games inside... Did alot of cleaning on both the 3Dfx cards, and some of the HDDs... Did also isolate bad sectors, if the drive did have some in the mid or end of the platter, and they seems to work fine after that...

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Mah systems retro, old, newer (Radical stuff)
W3680 4.5/ GA-x58 UD7/ R9 280x
K7 2.6/ NF7-S/ HD3850
IBM x2 P3 933/ GA-6VXD7/ Voodoo V 5.5K
Cmq P2 450/ GA-BX2000/ V2 SLI
IBM PC365
Cmq DeskPRO 486/33
IBM PS/2 Model 56
SPS IntelleXT 8088

Reply 23298 of 23641, by stef80

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Shponglefan wrote on 2022-11-29, 00:38:
Testing out games on my upgraded XP machine ran into an issue when testing Far Cry. I started getting extremely loud coil whine […]
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Testing out games on my upgraded XP machine ran into an issue when testing Far Cry. I started getting extremely loud coil whine from the system.

Naturally since I had just replaced the motherboard and CPU, I assumed that the new hardware was the culprit. I then spent several hours playing with BIOS settings changing voltages, power management options, turbo settings, etc. Nothing worked.

Finally realized the problem is just Far Cry. I didn't realize that the game doesn't have a frame limiter and it was rendering hundreds of frames per second and pushing the system to the limit.

Forcing vsync via the nVidia control panel solved the problem. No more coil whine.

Screw you, Far Cry. You wasted my evening.

Nice looking system. What are the specs?
Last time I experienced coil whine, I was running AMD's 8350 😀. And it was Corsair's Gold certified PSU generating it .

I have an interesting question for all of you building early PCIe era systems. If you had choice and components, what would you build:
1) dual AGP/PCIe Intel (Asrock VIA PT880)
2) dual AGP/PCIe AMD64 (Asrock ALI/ULI)
3) Intel (Intel i965/975, P35/X38, P45/X48)
4) AMD64 (nforce4 or 5)

Reply 23299 of 23641, by Sombrero

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Shponglefan wrote on 2022-11-29, 00:38:

Finally realized the problem is just Far Cry. I didn't realize that the game doesn't have a frame limiter and it was rendering hundreds of frames per second and pushing the system to the limit.

The game does have its own v-sync, it just doesn't work.

Isn't coil whine wonderful?

DOS/Win98SE: Abit BX133-RAID / P3 650MHz / Voodoo3 3000 / 128MB SDRAM / SB Live! / Orpheus
WinXP: Asus P5K / P4 HT 651 3.4GHz (D0) / 6800 GT / 2GB DDR2 / X-Fi
WinXP/7: MSI Z77A-G43 / i5-3570 / GTX 960 / 8GB DDR3 / X-Fi