PcBytes wrote:

NamelessPlayer wrote:

I admittedly only built a P4 setup for retrogaming because it was the only way to have a decent XP-grade machine while still having full-blown ISA for DOS/Win9x usage. Can't do that with Athlon XP/64, the right chipsets just don't exist.

Doesn't VIA's KT133 have ISA support?

Intel 865PE/875P chipsets have an ISA support (but w/o DMA). The trouble is - 865PE+ISA motherboards are extremely rare and industrial only. Plus you can't use this "ISA" for soundcards.

^ICH6+ (i.e. 9xx series and beyond) don't, but 865PE/875P (ICH5) may still have ISA DMA support.

From this page http://www.flaterco.com/kb/ISA_chipsets.html
relevant bits:

Intel-Industrial motherboards: 865G/865PE/875P

Example with ISA: MB865: LGA775, 800 MT/s FSB, AGP 8×, max 2 GiB PC3200 DDR RAM, max 3.8 GHz P4 (per manual).

Although ISA support was dropped by Intel in i810, it remained possible for board manufacturers to incorporate a third-party ISA/PCI bridge up through the end of the 8xx chipset series. Motherboards with later chipsets are still being sold with ISA slots, but their DMA doesn't work and can't possibly work. The Intel white paper Implementing Industry Standard Architecture (ISA) with Intel Express Chipsets explains why ISA DMA is IMPOSSIBLE for any chipset after 8xx.

Firsthand experience: The Legend QDI PlatiniX 2DI-AL/C (845) "works" with an ISA Sound Blaster 16, but it's not perfect. (This […]
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Firsthand experience: The Legend QDI PlatiniX 2DI-AL/C (845) "works" with an ISA Sound Blaster 16, but it's not perfect. (This proves that ISA DMA works, but not whether −5 V makes it to the ISA slot.)
EBay seller, 2012: About the Intel D845GECL: "I've done extensive testing with these and they're absolutely flawless as a retro board.... This motherboard supports ISA Bus Mastering for DMA (Direct Memory Access); this means it is compatible with old DOS-era sound cards. I've tested it personally with a Gravis Ultrasound, SB16, AWE32, and AWE64."
VOGONS, 2012: BC875PLG reported to work with Sound Blaster AWE64 Gold. 875P alleged to not support ISA bus mastering. MB865 reported to work with GUS Max, SB16, AWE32, Roland MPU401 and Midiman MM401.
MSFN, 2012: Equivocation about the BC875PLG: "Its DMA is not exactly great, fair bit of devices I got have problems on it and there seems nothing to do about it unfortunately, but it is among the most powerful boards with ISA with working DMA."
VOGONS, 2009: MB800H reported to work with Sound Blaster AWE64 Gold, Gravis Ultrasound ACE, and Roland Sound Canvas SCC-1.
VOGONS, 2008: MB820 reported to work with four Sound Blasters, three Roland cards, and a GUS Ace, but only halfway with GUS PnP. Problem with Roland LAPC traced to lack of −5 V from PSU. Other backward incompatibilities identified for new hardware in general, not for MB820 specifically: video cards dropping VBE support; poor BIOS support; non-working NMI. Some 3dfx Banshee cards immediately self-destruct in P4 class motherboards.

(yeah the article links to VOGONS threads -- i just quoted it because it sums up the topic well 😜)

Yeahh.... P4 and retro gaming is best served up on XP.
We might see that in 5 years from now, when kids of the 00's have all grown up.
Then socket 478 systems will be rare. Keep all pci cards from now on i say.

Nifty! But http://www.flaterco.com/kb/ISA_chipsets.htm is 404'ing right now.

^fixed 😜 should be .html not .htm

Btw, so in theory, a mainboard maker could actually make a LGA775 + 865PE/875P + ICH5 + AGP + PCI + ISA combo for the ultramicroniche ultimate overkill win9x+dos retro market!

brostenen wrote:

Yeahh.... P4 and retro gaming is best served up on XP.
We might see that in 5 years from now, when kids of the 00's have all grown up.
Then socket 478 systems will be rare. Keep all pci cards from now on i say.

I agree, but those kids will probably chose a P4 merely for nostalgia, because for XP the Pentium4 will not be the ideal system. I mean even a brand new PC today could be a ideal Windows XP game machine don't you think? So, aside from price and availability today, maybe we've a system that doesn't have much retro gaming value, although there are some very good examples of win98 gaming.

For me a Core 2 Duo is the way to go for a XP machine 😀

But there is also something very cool about a period correct P4 Northwood machine with a 6600GT for example.

There aren't really any common post-LGA775 motherboards with AGP slots, are there?

TELEPACMAN wrote:

I mean even a brand new PC today could be a ideal Windows XP game machine don't you think?

Starting from Haswell, the answer is a definite no. 🙁

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

For me a Core 2 Duo is the way to go for a XP machine 😀

But there is also something very cool about a period correct P4 Northwood machine with a 6600GT for example.

It was actually AMD's high time with Athlon64, but C2D kinda killed that domination. Still I'd choose Athlon64 over P4 for 😎-ness factor.

Jorpho wrote:

There aren't really any post-LGA775 motherboards with AGP slots, are there?

ftfy 😈

For the P4 retro build I lean on nGlide for 3dfx to get around the AGP slot limitation, and to take full advantage of a PCIE/512mb GPU. nGlide is a fine solution here since Glide games that can take advantage of all the extra horsepower all work great so far - no hardware specific issues like you often find in earlier generation of Glide games. A V5500 lives in a Tualatin box, and honestly does not get much of a workout since the P4 W98/XP/nGlide beast has been in operation.

I recently threw togther a P4 98se rig to see if it would even work. So far it's working fantastically. Other than not having any ISA slots it's great, plays every late 9x era game I throw at it. Really the only issue I've had so far is occasionally on shutdown it'll BSOD, I'm assuming some sort of ACPI driver issue, but I'm not too bothered by it. For the earlier DOS and Glide stuff I have an assortment of P1s and P2s.

Asus P4P800 Deluxe
Intel P4 2.8c with HT disabled
512mb dualchannel DDR400
128mb GeForce4 ti4400
Aopen? sound card, Yamaha YMF724 chipset
2X WD800 80gb drives in a raid0 array.

Via based AMD XP's and 64's are also good alternative 9x machines.
Capable of playing late dos games even, due to still supporting DDMA, with PCI sound cards like the Xwave\Ymf7xx series.

Seriously I seem to own every P4 board that has 9x troubles.
My last attempt was with a Presler (no HT it should ignore the 2nd core) Via Based Asus board, this board supports DDMA too I can get it to boot to dos and run dos games with a YMF-724 just fine using the drivers from a diffrent computers 9x install to get around its installer req 9x.
Only tried Epic Pinball but it worked with the racer table.

But, I could not get it past the 98\98se\ME installer. It would randomly reboot mid phase, and thats after cutting the FSB in HALF as low as the bios would let me.

This was\is a LGA 775 board that has AGP\DDR1 and DDR2 slots, both cannot be used at the same time. It would seem to be an ideal 9x machine heck the manual states it as supporting it 😒 .

AlphaWing wrote:

Seriously I seem to own every P4 board that has 9x troubles.

Just need to rule out any dos gaming on P4 boards. I think of Socket 478 as a sort of parting away from DOS.
Socket 775 is for me, the parting away from Win98 and onwards to Win7 and Win8.
My trusty old Dell Dimension 5000 (Socket 775) is strangely enough better off running Vista over Win7.
Soooo.... Dimension-5000 and gaming? No way!! 🤣

They are great for Win98 gaming and early XP gaming, with the right GFX card.
I did however have a 865 based board once, with ICHL5 southbridge.
That had only partial support in pure DOS for any PCI based soundcard, just only for like 10 to 20 minutes.
DosBOX however, could in theory be the only support for DOS on P4. (Socket 478 and 775)

You should look into a 1.4GHz Tualatin Pentium III system or a similar Athlon XP for high end 9x gaming. They perform much faster clock per clock versus a Pentium 4 and should be enough to max all games that require Win9x.

computergeek92 wrote:

You should look into a 1.4GHz Tualatin Pentium III system or a similar Athlon XP for high end 9x gaming. They perform much faster clock per clock versus a Pentium 4 and should be enough to max all games that require Win9x.

^^ This

And even trying to run DOS on a C2D is silly since they can run pretty much any game in dosbox without problem
I was playing quake in dosbox yesterday and not even hitting 25% CPU load on my C2D E6700

smeezekitty wrote:

can run pretty much any game in dosbox without problem

Dosbox compatibility is *censored* sometimes (Druid: Dæmons of the Mind as the example). Still you can use Virtual PC in such cases...

.....or use the very aforementioned Pentium 4 system.

Going Tualatin is easier said than done.

Gamecollector wrote:

smeezekitty wrote:

can run pretty much any game in dosbox without problem

Dosbox compatibility is *censored* sometimes (Druid: Dæmons of the Mind as the example). Still you can use Virtual PC in such cases...

I am well aware. I don't really like playing on dosbox honestly.
But it is the best option for a fast machine like a C2D

Recently scored a decent looking 775 P4 system with a ga-8ipe775-g and a unlockable EVGA 6200. Bad psu and a bit of dust but pretty good overall, ordered a rock solid old school Enermax psu that has solid rails. P4 530J, 2GB DDR1 400, EVGA 6200 128Bit 256mb, and generic case in good condition.

smeezekitty wrote:

ODwilly wrote:

My next door neighbor is trying to get rid of an 866mhz p3 Dell xps system and cant find anyone that doesn't scoff at him. I lack the space to take it 😒

Take it. Its worth it
P3s are getting rare. Sell it soon if you have to but please rescue

Take that sucker. I have a Dimension 4100 of about the same vintage and it's a great system. It's still sitting in storage, but I want to do something with it eventually.