VOGONS


First post, by konc

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I got my hands on a Guillemot Maxi Gamer 3D2 (Voodoo2, 8MB) and I’m experiencing these dots shown in the photos below in everything I try.

Some info:
-They appear right from the beginning, with a cold system/card and there are no crashes after prolonged use.
-This is a pure DOS 6.22 system (Pentium MMX 233MHz, 64MB RAM, Matrox G450 as primary VGA, all settings stock), so no windows drivers here. The only thing I’ve done is to get the glide2x.ovl from the latest reference drivers and copy it to a location in path (that’s enough, right?)
-Unfortunately there is no other system I can try the card on and I don’t own another Voodoo to double check the games either.

On to the photos. Sorry, I tried some screen capturing utilities but none worked for games, so I did my best with a mobile phone. I believe described issue can be easily observed thought:

qv61Tl0l.jpg
UEFA Champions League 96/97: black dots around players and cyan dots in the court

8JvlAUGl.jpg
Fatal racing: green dots all over the track

G8VSPlvl.jpg
Descent 2: green dots on the floor and door

cn2QG7yl.jpg
Grand Theft Auto: check the road

U90mu8ml.jpg
Screamer 2: green dots on the car and the sky

R2OdGXtl.jpg
zxIiP4ql.jpg
Tomb Raider Unfinished Business: black lines on Lara's face and brown dots on the snow

aejmS25l.jpg
Trip demo: dots around "GFX" word

PSwCrtal.jpg
VR Soccer: dots on the court

I could go on forever with every single DOS glide game that exists, but I believe you get the point. Similar issues can be observed on everything I tried. Now, I would have played fetch with my dog already if this was another case BUT this is a Voodoo2 card and we all know things can go weird when running DOS glide games that were designed and patched with the first Voodoo in mind. Although I did use all the info/batch files/patches of this thread Voodoo 2 DOS Glide compatibility matrix to run the games, I’m still not 100% sure whether those glitches is something expected or not. So I’m asking for your opinions guys before tossing the card… Could this be normal because I'm using a Voodoo2, is it really dying/faulty, or is there something I'm missing/could try?

Reply 2 of 18, by rick6

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I have two faulty voodoos at the moment, one of them shows these signs but much more aggressively and only after a while.

I might try a small reflow of the hottest chip and see if it works.

My 2001 gaming beast in all it's "Pentium 4 Williamate" Glory!

Reply 3 of 18, by nforce4max

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When there is a regular pattern of artifacts the problem is almost always in the memory or a cracked joint on the gpu side so one of your TMUs likely has a cracked joint or one of the vram chips has an issue. Overall reflow will help determine if the issue is a cracked joint or a defect on a deeper level.

On a far away planet reading your posts in the year 10,191.

Reply 4 of 18, by meljor

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Try a heatgun (gently) for a small reflow. You can also try and underclock it by 10mhz and see how it does.

I think when the underclock works there is some defective ram on the card.

asus tx97-e, 233mmx, voodoo1, s3 virge ,sb16
asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
asus p3b-f, p3-700, voodoo3 3500TV agp, awe64
asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1

Reply 5 of 18, by konc

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I see, it seems like we all agree the thing is dying...
I'll try to get my hands on a heat gun since I don't own one. I'd have thrown it in the oven to be honest since I don't have much to lose at this point, but this particular card has non-removable (unless some desoldering takes place) plastic parts like vga & sli connectors.

Thank you all for your answers to this thread

Reply 6 of 18, by keropi

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Why get a heat gun and not a soldering iron?
You can reflow the joints safer with a soldering iron, the heatgun is too brutal IMHO

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Reply 7 of 18, by rick6

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Don't do the oven trick, the chips and the pcb are quite old and beaten by now and plastic parts will melt, it will get ugly afterwards. It would be much better for you to get a heatgun with a small nozzle and heat only the part\contacts of the chip you want to reflow. Also before heating any chip put some flux on the chip pins. Flux is quite cheap and easy to get on any electronic store.

Still if you insist on putting the card inside a oven put some aluminium foil around plastic parts and try not going abore 190ºC i guess. I fear the pcb will warp.

My 2001 gaming beast in all it's "Pentium 4 Williamate" Glory!

Reply 8 of 18, by konc

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I wrote that I'm NOT baking it, exactly because of plastic parts 😀
Keropi, reflowing SMD components such as the TMU's with a soldering iron? That's waaaaay beyond my capabilities, I'll screw things up for sure! I can barely solder through-hole stuff decently, so even all those memory chips is too much for me.
Thanks again guys for your help and advice on this, I'll keep you posted on developments.

Reply 9 of 18, by Holering

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You sure the card has clean contacts? Sometimes a bad ground-earth can cause problems. Check for worn capacitors (bulging and/or leaking caps). Do you have a multimeter? If you know what you're doing, connect multimeter to a good ground-earth and make sure all positive points give good values.

Reply 10 of 18, by nforce4max

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A oven bake won't be as damaging as some think as I've done whole boards that used the same plastics without issue however the weight and type of bonding is to be avoided for a whole reflow. Using an iron is the Best method unlike a hot air gun as the iron will.

All in all just get another card or pay someone who is experienced when it comes to soldering. A pro would desolder one or several things by hand then clean the contacts then resolder using a more modern solder that is less prone to cracking. For a $20-50 card that option is just not worth it right now.

On a far away planet reading your posts in the year 10,191.

Reply 11 of 18, by meljor

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Modern solder that is less prone to cracking?

I don`t even know how many ``modern`` graphics cards i have seen that died because of the modern stuff. I think the modern solder is rubbish when it comes to electronics that are exposed to lots of heat compared to the old stuff.

Many geforce and radeon cards died and many many xbox 360 and ps3 systems. We never had problems of this magnitude with older graphics cards and xbox1, ps1 and ps2.

In the past i never was afraid to buy a modern, fast card that was used by someone else for a year or so, it was a great way to buy highend cheap. The last years i buy new simply because i want to make sure the card has good cooling from day one. They die way to easy now....

In a way it is a shame that people know the ``oven trick`` because there are a lot of defective cards sold now (a lot of the errors come back within weeks/months)

asus tx97-e, 233mmx, voodoo1, s3 virge ,sb16
asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
asus p3b-f, p3-700, voodoo3 3500TV agp, awe64
asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1

Reply 12 of 18, by rick6

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meljor wrote:
Modern solder that is less prone to cracking? […]
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Modern solder that is less prone to cracking?

I don`t even know how many ``modern`` graphics cards i have seen that died because of the modern stuff. I think the modern solder is rubbish when it comes to electronics that are exposed to lots of heat compared to the old stuff.

Many geforce and radeon cards died and many many xbox 360 and ps3 systems. We never had problems of this magnitude with older graphics cards and xbox1, ps1 and ps2.

In the past i never was afraid to buy a modern, fast card that was used by someone else for a year or so, it was a great way to buy highend cheap. The last years i buy new simply because i want to make sure the card has good cooling from day one. They die way to easy now....

In a way it is a shame that people know the ``oven trick`` because there are a lot of defective cards sold now (a lot of the errors come back within weeks/months)

Very true, the fact the modern solder lacks lead (for health and environmental reasons i guess) makes it much more prone to crack with all the hot\cold (turn on\off) cycles.
Also the oven trick is horrible has it heats unecessary parts like electrolytic capacitors beyond their rated temperature.

I should inform that i believe that i found what was creating so many artifacts after a while playing on my voodoo2 (much like the op, but about 50 times worse, trust me). It's a faulty framebuffer chip which is the big chip in the middle near the pci connector. Still burning in hope that there could be a microscopic broken solder joint i tried to do a really quick reflow, and the chip did not survive. Windows would not detect the card afterwards. I already removed the chip from the card and now I'm going to order a cheap but proper reflow\rework station with proper nozzles and a bit of solder paste, and try to transplant the same chip from another defective voodoo2 and see how it does.
I couldn't find new framebuffer chips apart from this which isn't worthy http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-45-3DFX-500-00 … =item19ec86d11d
All-in-all it's really not worthy so much work, but it hurts to see these cards go...

My 2001 gaming beast in all it's "Pentium 4 Williamate" Glory!

Reply 13 of 18, by konc

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So I managed to borrow a heat gun. After some reading and watching videos to see techniques used etc, I wrapped the rest in foil and very very gently heated the first MTU. Since the card didn't have a huge problem I went really easy on it, to the point that it was possible for the reflow not to succeed because of not enough heating.
Tried the card, nothing changed. Did the same for the second MTU and tried it again.

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Oh well, free drugs. I'm currently trying to sell them for a working voodoo 😎

Reply 17 of 18, by meljor

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Try again! You have to heat it up onto the point where the solder gets a nice shine. The card is dead, nothing to lose...

asus tx97-e, 233mmx, voodoo1, s3 virge ,sb16
asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
asus p3b-f, p3-700, voodoo3 3500TV agp, awe64
asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1