swaaye wrote:

I saw a forum thread mention that Dell's 8200 250W is more like a typical 350W because it is actually rated to sustain 250W. How […]
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I saw a forum thread mention that Dell's 8200 250W is more like a typical 350W because it is actually rated to sustain 250W. However at this point these PSUs are old and I would check for bad caps. I've seen leaking caps in Dell PSUs.

Off the top of my head, beyond 45.23 and you'll have problems with NFS4 and NOLF. It actually also affects zeckensack's Glide emulator with some games. And old Unreal engine D3D gets z-fighting problems IIRC (maybe W buffer issue). There is a lot of info out there in other old forum threads too. Ive experimented with every major driver after 45.xx and it is pretty clear that for DirectX 7 era games you want 45.23 or older.

Also, starting with 50.xx, NVIDIA started to aggressively performance tweak texture filtering and so image quality is somewhat lower. Not sure how noticeable it is though. This was the big cheating era.

81.98 can't be cleanly uninstalled which is annoying. The uninstaller is broken.

No leaking caps. The computer as it was when I received 13 years ago.

Based on google, it looks like the Dimension 8200 is a Pentium 4 machine. I think most likely that motherboard uses a standard ATX power supply.

Dell used a nonstandard PSU pinout in most, possibly all of their Pentium 2 machines, but only *some* Pentium 3s. All the Dell P4s I've seen used a standard ATX supply. The reputation has stuck to Dell ever since though.
I think my nephew's PC is an 8400, and I know the GX260,270,280 are definitely all ATX. I have a 3000 which I believe is also ATX but I hesitate to say that for certain. I don't know about the 8200, so it could be different.

Find some ATX/Dell pinout diagrams and compare to your power connector. Or just compare it to a known ATX supply. The wire colors should tell the story.
If it is standard ATX, then buying a P2-era "Dell" PSU or adapter would backfire on you.

eFatal2ty wrote:

I used to have ATI Radeon X850XT(PE) 256MB AGP DX9.0b Win98SE http://www2.ati.com/drivers/Catalyst_62_ME_re … ease_notes.html […]
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I used to have ATI Radeon X850XT(PE) 256MB AGP DX9.0b Win98SE http://www2.ati.com/drivers/Catalyst_62_ME_re … ease_notes.html

ForceWare Release 81.98 -Last nVidia driver for for Win98 supports his rival nVidia 6800Ultra 256MB AGP DX9.0c

These 2 cards are - last supported - and definitely the best - 4WIN 98

😘

The thing is, though, that AMD doesn't exactly go out of their way to tell you that the x800/x850 are actually supported under Windows 98. You have to dig into the release notes to find that out. If you were downloading from their legacy support page, the last card you would see supported would be the 9800XT, even though the release notes for that version say x800/x850 is supported.

AMD is stated that just in release notes, and not provide it on driver download web page, because it's beta support. It's obvious then, that they wouldn't promote beta driver on website.

I will however give it a try, once I finish my Win98/WinXP build with X800 Pro VIVO@X800 XT PE.

Srandista wrote:

AMD is stated that just in release notes, and not provide it on driver download web page, because it's beta support. It's obvious then, that they wouldn't promote beta driver on website.

I will however give it a try, once I finish my Win98/WinXP build with X800 Pro VIVO@X800 XT PE.

No problem at all. Radeon X8xx Will work under Win98.
Tested few years ago

Interesting topic.

What is the most silent single slot agp 8x win98 card with unmoded/stock cooling.

depending on your definition of single slot I would say one of the passive 6600gt cards. They are a bit rare though, the PCIe ones are much more common (still rare though).

With modified drivers, you can get the Nvidia 7900 series working in Windows 98. The modded driver claims it works with the early 8800 series but I have not been able to get it to work on anything newer than a 7900GTX.

With that in mind, there were AGP versions of the 7900GS, 79000GT and 7950GT.

7950GT - saw one on eBay a while back for a crazy price. They do pop up every once in a while.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?I … N82E16814150223

Sold listings on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nk … 1&LH_Complete=1

I unlocked an 6800GS (I don't remember the brand), but it became unstable and eventually died completely.

ati all in wonder 9800 pro.. its a little faster than the 9800 pro and more stable with win98 than the xt version..

techraider wrote on 2021-08-29, 03:24:

ati all in wonder 9800 pro.. its a little faster than the 9800 pro and more stable with win98 than the xt version..

Fastest isn't always the best when Windows 98 gaming is concerned.

ATI cards lack support for table fog, paletted textures and VBE 3.0. Those missing features can cause compatibility issues in certain situations.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-08-29, 04:04:

Fastest isn't always the best when Windows 98 gaming is concerned.
ATI cards lack support for table fog, paletted textures and VBE 3.0. Those missing features can cause compatibility issues in certain situations.

Well, it depends on what you want from that specific build. 😀
I use ATI Radeon 9800 Pro/XT cards for ultra-fast overkill Win98 builds, where fog table / paletted textures is less of a concern.
Fog table (sorry, I can't write/say "table fog", it just sounds weird to me 😁 ), in particular, is something that most of the time you won't even notice, it's not a make or break feature. As I understand, it's an issue for Thief 2 (not a fan of that game, so not sure how bad it is without it). When it comes to the games I play, I did see that fog is missing in NFS High Stakes (when using ATI cards), but unless you know the game very well, you won't even notice its absence.

VBE 3.0 is also overrated, IMO. It's required for very few games, usually for resolutions higher than SVGA or non-standard resolutions. All period correct cards are VBE 2.0 anyway.
On the other hand, late ATI cards are extremely DOS compatible (at least the games I play run perfectly, and don't have any scrolling issues). Oh, and they're also VERY fast, much faster than with newer nVIDIA cards.

bloodem wrote on 2021-08-29, 05:12:

Fog table (sorry, I can't write/say "table fog", it just sounds weird to me 😁 ), in particular, is something that most of the time you won't even notice, it's not a make or break feature. As I understand, it's an issue for Thief 2 (not a fan of that game, so not sure how bad it is without it). When it comes to the games I play, I did see that fog is missing in NFS High Stakes (when using ATI cards), but unless you know the game very well, you won't even notice its absence.

I agree that the prominence of table fog (or lack thereof) varies from game to game. For example, Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire makes heavy use of table fog. In consequence, not having it available makes that game look overly barren. Unfortunately, the usage of table fog and paletted textures isn't well documented, so it's difficult to estimate how many games are affected by their absence and to what extent.

VBE 3.0 is also overrated, IMO. It's required for very few games, usually for resolutions higher than SVGA or non-standard resolutions. All period correct cards are VBE 2.0 anyway.

To me, the most valuable aspect of VBE 3.0 (in terms of PC retro gaming) is that it allows you to use VBEHz which makes it possible to achieve higher refresh rates in DOS SVGA games on a CRT monitor (e.g. you can run Transport Tycoon at 120 Hz instead of the default 60 Hz). For reference, VBEHz outright requires VBE 3.0 in order to work. That said, if you're using an LCD monitor, this becomes far less important.

On the other hand, late ATI cards are extremely DOS compatible (at least the games I play run perfectly, and don't have any scrolling issues). Oh, and they're also VERY fast, much faster than with newer nVIDIA cards.

They don't look so great on Gona's compatibility chart. But as you say, it depends on which games you want to play.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-08-29, 05:56:

To me, the most valuable aspect of VBE 3.0 (in terms of retro PC gaming) is the ability to use VBEHz and similar tools to achieve higher refresh rates in DOS SVGA games on a CRT monitor (e.g. you can run Transport Tycoon at 120 Hz instead of 60 Hz). However, if you're using an LCD monitor, then it becomes less important.

Oh, OK. Never in my life have I used VBEHz or other similar tools (not even back in the day, on CRT monitors). The default refresh rates are fine for me. 😀

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-08-29, 05:56:

They don't look so great on Gona's compatibility chart. But as you say, it depends on which games you want to play.

Yeah, I know about that chart, but never paid much attention to it.
First of all, both Prehistorik and Prehistorik 2 are mentioned as having "fast scrolling" problems --> I actually enjoy playing them on Radeon 9800 PRO/XT cards and I like the fast scrolling, it's a "feature" not a "bug" (it's because the Radeon cards are VERY fast, as I mentioned before) 😁. It definitely doesn't detract from the game experience in any way, IMO.
Other than that... yeah, I don't play any of the other games that supposedly have issues. Also, I see that Radeon 9800 PRO cards are not mentioned, maybe they have compatibility improvements compared to the Radeon DDR ? (although it's hard to believe that ATI would've cared about "improving the DOS experience" by the time these cards hit the market 😀 )

bloodem wrote on 2021-08-29, 08:06:

Oh, OK. Never in my life have I used VBEHz or other similar tools (not even back in the day, on CRT monitors). The default refresh rates are fine for me. 😀

You're lucky then. The 60 Hz refresh rate which DOS games normally use for the 640x480 resolution flickers way too much for my aging eyes. Of course, that's only when using a CRT monitor. I have no such issues on an LCD.

VBEHz (and some other tools) can increase the refresh rate to 120 Hz which my eyes find a lot more comfortable. On that note, I recently discovered that my Hercules branded S3 Trio64V+ can also do this, but only when using its own, proprietary utilities.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-08-29, 08:41:

You're lucky then. The 60 Hz refresh rate which DOS games normally use for the 640x480 resolution flickers way too much for my aging eyes. Of course, that's only when using a CRT monitor. I have no such issues on an LCD.

Well, truthfully, I last used a CRT in 2006, my eyes were very young back then... not sure how I would feel about it nowadays. 😀
A CRT monitor is something that I'll probably never use again (my wife certainly wouldn't let me have one 😁).

2 camps of people
Best=Fastest
Best=what works
I'm of the 2nd. Screw going fast if everything is broken, buggy, crashes, and sucks.
Wooo lad I got 5billion 3d marks in synthetic bench mark, lets play a real game. Bluescreens for days. Best.

I like to keep it original like back in the days. WIN98 = Pentium II / III. So Riva TNT up to Geforce 256