Socket A CPUs are very cheap so you may as well get a faster Athlon. Be aware these run hot though so make sure you have decent thermal paste and cooling.

Having an ISA slot is an advantage of early Socket A builds, so you may as well take advantage. Any AWE64 is fine, just get the cheapest one you see. If you want to stick with a single card for both DOS and Windows, I have had good experiences with Vortex 2-based cards.

Either the 9600 or Ti4200 will be more than enough for this build. The Ti4200 will likely have better DOS compatibility though.

Socket A builds are generally very cheap to put together so a good platform for experimentation. The biggest problem is getting them stable, as they run hot, stress power supplies and voltage regulators, and many of the boards and matching video cards were manufactured at the time of the capacitor plague. KT133 wasn't the most stable either. If you do get it stable it would be a great fast DOS/Win98 machine though.

RetroBoogie wrote:

1. Should I just use the onboard PCI128 for DOS (comes with ok 8mb soundfonts for GM, SB sounds somewhat ok) and use the Audigy 2 for Win98, or disable the onboard and add an ISA sound card? If so, which one? Any Windows conflicts?

If you have an ISA slot, you really want an ISA card for DOS

2. If I keep the CT5880 for DOS and Audigy 2 for Windows, what would the optimal configuration be for getting Windows sound only from the Audigy and not letting the PCI128 mix in, but still get sound in DOS games?

You can just disable devices you don't want to be available in device manager 😀

I'd recommend you a Soltek SL-75KAV. This board was the basis of probably the best computer i had in my entire life. It's funny but this was one of the most stable computers i owned. I had a Palomino core which did ran hot, but AMD''s thermal limits were high and CPU's ran fine even if they seem to be running to hot. It was the nature o their fabbing process at that time.

The KT-133A was improved to the point i could never complain about its stability. I don't know how well the system will behave running Windows 98, as i was running XP at the time. Athlon XP's completely destroy Willammete Pentium 4's and run neck to neck with clocked Northwood P4's.

The Soltek has integrated Audio but it also has an ISA slot, so get a YMF-71x card which will give excellent DOS capabilities and compatibility. Some of these cards have integrated YMF-704C which is GM capable. You can't go wrong with these cards. Use teh Audigy 2 for Windows only. I think i GeForce 2 will do the trick for what you need, i remember testing a Geforce 2 Ti with good success in DOS.

bjt wrote:

Socket A CPUs are very cheap so you may as well get a faster Athlon. Be aware these run hot though so make sure you have decent thermal paste and cooling.

Having an ISA slot is an advantage of early Socket A builds, so you may as well take advantage. Any AWE64 is fine, just get the cheapest one you see. If you want to stick with a single card for both DOS and Windows, I have had good experiences with Vortex 2-based cards.

philscomputerlab wrote:

If you have an ISA slot, you really want an ISA card for DOS

You know, I think you are both right about the ISA slot. I should consider that the gift of the build and not the curious onboard sound.

philscomputerlab wrote:

You can just disable devices you don't want to be available in device manager 😀

Yeah, I remember doing that last night, and it makes sense (DOS detection is separate). I think what confused me is the two software installs put two different sound utilities in the taskbar for volume, and both of them produced dings when I played with the volume slider. I suppose they're just both linked to the same Windows event. I'll find a way to unload the onboard at startup.

carlostex wrote:

I think i GeForce 2 will do the trick for what you need, i remember testing a Geforce 2 Ti with good success in DOS.

I was considering that as well. I'll look up some benchmarks first, as I'd rather be CPU limited than GPU.

Thanks for the replies gents - those are some useful nudges. Question - would I be better served by an Awe32 with expandable memory for big sound fonts, or is the SIMMCON adapter reasonably priced for the AWE64? Either way, I think I'd rather have the CQM than the OPL due to the fast CPU (I've read on here about speed sensitivity of genuine OPLs).

On the last question, both will achieve the same results in terms of loading soundfonts (the AWE32 has 30-pin sockets and the AWE64 will use a 72-pin simm via the SIMMCON adaptor).
It merely comes down to whether you prefer an AWE32 or an AWE64.

As far as I know, Audigy and Audigy 2 has DOS support. There might be even some 3rd party drivers and the like might be involved, but I remember a full site almost dedicated to this issue. Googling may help.

EDIT: I just found a thread about that:

Audigy 2 unofficial DOS driver

In short, it is not suggested for many reasons.

Are you using the on-board in true dos or just running Dos games in windows? if its real dos then your using the exact same emulation as the Audigy 2 would be anyway without the headaches as each PCI card got harder and harder to get working in true dos.

I've never had sound coming from both sound cards?! if you set the primary sound source in Control Panel to the Audigy then that should be used unless a program specifically told otherwise.

I haven't had any speed problems with OPL on my P3 1Ghz and AWE32 but don't play many games that use it either. I would think games that have trouble would be more affected by CPU speed already.
In reality I doubt I would notice the difference between a true OPL and CQM as I got into computers when 99% of games were using Sound Blaster compatible, but as my SB16 back in the day had a true OPL chip I got an AWE32 for the 1 or 2 games to sound the same and they were slightly cheaper.
Otherwise I would have gone for the cleaner sound from a AWE64

RetroBoogie wrote:

Either way, I think I'd rather have the CQM than the OPL due to the fast CPU (I've read on here about speed sensitivity of genuine OPLs).

I've never had any OPL3 issues with very fast CPU's. In my opinion if you want to use an AWE64 for Sound Blaster compatibility and enjoy some EMU8000 tunes i would agree but if you don't care about AWE synth there are far better cards out there.

Naaa... Never had that speed issue with the OPL chip and stuff like fast (when fast is considered fast for dos) CPU's.
Perhaps it is just a question of trying to run OPL past 100mhz FSB. Anyway...

The build, that you have gathered parts for you'r Win98 and Dos gaming machine, seems to be pretty hefty stuff for this.
The question here, for me, is how old Dos games you tend to run on this rig. If it's games like Duke3D and Doom. Fine.
As the games will be EMM386 compatible games, and therefor the TSR for setting a PCI soundcard is of no big deal at all.
You know... PCI not being able to do these DMA and IRQ calls, that are required for most if not all Dos games.
If the case is XMS compatible games, then go for an ISA. EMM386 games, then go for a nice SB16 compatible PCI card.
You know... To let Windows98 do all this SB16 stuff. Just don't go for really new motherboards.
An example is my Asrock K7S41, that even with Win98SE and SB-Live does not work at all, with the SB16 legacy device.
Even though it is installed perfectly in device manager, the function is not working. (it's all chipset related here)

Hope you can make something out of my post. 😀

Honestly because of the instablility of early SocketA I'd get a cheap KT333/KT400/KT600/Nforce2 board pair it with DDR and an Athlon XP, I'd go for an XP Thoroughbred B type as they are very cool running. And you can downclock it if you want to. An XP 1700+ for instance can be set at 100x11 for 1100mhz which being that its an XP would be about equal to an Athlon Classic 1300 chip.

Thanks for the responses - lots of helpful advice. I stopped by the local PC shop after work and scoured their inventory. Wouldn't you know it - I found a Duron 1GHz 200FSB! What got me excited about looking it up is that is is compatible with my motherboard and also supports SSE, something the Duron 800 does not. Guess it's due to the new core and all. Anyway, I get home and install the new Duron - nothing. I was pretty bummed, but also remembered that last night I found a BIOS update. I swapped the Duron 800 back in so I could boot, ran into DOS mode and flashed the BIOS, then reinstalled the Duron 1GHz. Success! The system is overall more snappy and responsive. Interesting note: Undying now displays textures properly. Still stutters though, probably due to using a PCI MX4000. So I think I'll keep the new 1GHz Duron and save money from not buying the Athlon I was looking at.

Also, I found 2 72-pin EDO SIMMs that I think are 32MB, which would be perfect for an AWE32, but I may just spring for the AWE64 and get a SIMMCON adapter. A little more money, but would I think complete the build (with the ti4200 AGP).

Brostenen, in response to your question, yes - I have Duke 3d Atomic Edition and DOOM 1 and 2, and already Duke 3d ran great in SVGA with the Duron 800. I also fancy me some Warcraft 2 and have a copy of Blood I'd like to try out.

For some reason though, now I can't get General MIDI to work in Tie Fighter CD, perhaps a conflict I can't quite solve yet. I'll play with the IRQs and perhaps install DOS 6.22 along Win 98SE.

RetroBoogie wrote:

Also, I found 2 72-pin EDO SIMMs that I think are 32MB, which would be perfect for an AWE32, but I may just spring for the AWE64 and get a SIMMCON adapter.

AWE32 cards utilize 30pin SIMMs, not 72pin. Also you need them in pairs. This means you need two 16MB 30 pin SIMMs to populate an AWE32 to its max (it will use 28MB as far as I know)

But you can of course use on of that 32MB 72pin SIMMs for your AWE64 (IT will use 28 MB), providing that you have a SIMMCON.

I did the same mistake, when I got my first AWE32. I initially thought that they were 70pin ram. Well... Vogons quickly sorted me out on that.
And thankfully for that, because I did not buy the 2x16mb 70pin I was looking for at that time. 😁
(now the CT3900 is being stored for the future, as I am using Gold for 95/99-Dos and SB16 for 90/95-Dos)

Ha ha, yeah you guys are spot on with having the wrong RAM. Learning is hard. 😀

Anyways I sorted my issues out with the PCI128 in DOS. Just had to pay attention to which IRQ the BIOS assigned it during startup, then edit the ini with the right IRQ. Everything works again, but to be honest the FM is so crap. Wolfenstein doesn't sound the same AT ALL, and it's making me go for gold (AWE64) quicker than I thought. Right now I'm trying to understand how I got Tie Fighter to work in SVGA with the GeForce 4 MX, because right now after a fresh reinstall I can't get it to run at all, in Win98 or DOS mode. It just says can't use SVGA, loading, and dumps back to the C prompt.

Oh nonono... Gold is best for AWE compatible games.
What you want to go for, is an AWE32 with a real OPL chip then.
I just did not think you wanted to play that old DOS games.
On the other hand. AWE64 Gold are a better choice when emulating Adlib.
It's a hard choice there.... Try this site, it's all about AWE-ness 😁

http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.dk/2012/07/so … 64-options.html

EDIT:
According to the site, the following model numbers have that chip.
CT:1747, CT:2760, CT:3900, CT:3980, CT:3780 and CT:3910

So, I've whittled my choices down to two: a SB Pro 2.0 and an AWE64 Gold. Reflecting back on what I was used to hearing, the games I am interested in playing now, and the desire to hear everything in it's full range of glory, I think you can decide which one I chose.

My SB Pro 2.0 (CT1600) should be here soon, and I can't wait. 😀

So, my SB Pro 2.0 arrived today (CT1600). Inspected it, set jumpers, and plugged it in. In DOS, there was no configuration, but I got some low and weird sound issues in some games. I installed the SB Pro 2.0 driver disks from the Vogons driver library as well as the Creative update disk, and I use the SBP-MIX program to set line levels. I can get pure FM sound now in many games, but some now refuse to detect my card (perhaps speed-sensitive games?). I even tried a dual config of using my onboard PCI128 for just midi and SB Pro for FM, and in some protected mode games it works great, like Doom and Duke 3D (I attached a stereo cable from the speaker output of the PCI128 to the input of the SB Pro for mixing), but in some games (Wolf3d) the sound works great for a minute then gets garbled and locks up. It didn't do this when I used just the PCI128 for emulation.

Are Apollo 133 chipsets known to have speed issues with ISA cards? If so, that may be a bummer since I have a KT133A on the way. 🙁

I've been researching the forum and see that some say replacing the caps will do nothing (as I've noticed some bulging going on, but it still works for the time being). You guys say the OPL3 is not speed sensitive, but there must be something going on. Even in the TEST-SBP program only the 4-operator FM music works. The 2-Operator is completely scrambled and the Digitized sound doesn't do anything. Did I purchase the wrong ISA card for a socket A build? I plan on possible using the SB Pro for FM/Music and in some games the PCI128 for just MIDI (like DOOM and DUKE). I even went into the BIOS and disabled the AGP enhancements - same thing. PCI delay - same thing. Swapped AGP to PCI video card - same thing. Any ideas?

What games do you have issues with? Monkey Island for example would have issues on such a fast machine.

You can try disabling the caches through BIOS. This will slow down your computer massively.

ISA sound cards are very often speed-sensitive. If programs adhere to the specification and implement proper delays when accessing the card everything is fine, but stuff like you describe often happens, especially with older sound cards and faster CPUs. I understand that AWE64 is nearly immune to this so it is well suited for a faster machine. I remember having garbled sounds in Populous already in a 386 (must have been something like sound blaster 1.0 to 2.0).
If you have a P2 or P3 than disabling caches should slow it down to 286 level which would be better for an SBPro. Oh, and you could of course try to set higher 8bit delays ("8-Bit I/O Recovery Time") in the BIOS setup and/or set a lower ISA clock there, that might help, too.