VOGONS


First post, by madamehelga

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Hi everyone, new member here 😀

Very happy to have found VOGONS, lurked for a bit but registered eventually.

As a part of summer *cough* cleaning I'm going over old equipment and trying to make it work or scrap it.

Having Dataexpert EXP4349 board on the table here, it's a 386/486 VL board (can be found in TH99).
Seems to be an OEM version as many jumpers are either missing (open) or are hardwired (closed).
The configuration that is fixed corresponds (almost perfectly) to a TI486SXL.

Visual inspection didn't reveal anything abnormal except for missing BIOS ROM (used to be Phoenix
BIOS IIRC) which I've been unable to locate.

I've got few EEPROMs here but I failed to find BIOS image anywhere on teh interwebz.

Is there a chance a VOGONS member has such board (OEM or not) and could dump the ROM
to a file and share it?

I did prepare FreeDOS boot floppy (to be written by WinImage/rawrite2/dd) which should make
the process of dumping relatively hassle-free.

The (1440k) image is at http://darkswarm.org/biosdump/.

Dumping the ROM involves booting prepped floppy and running BIOSDUMP.BAT
It should eventually create BIOSDUMP.BIN file which should be 64kB (65536
bytes) large.

Then, it is only a matter of either copying BIOSDUMP.BIN off the floppy _or_
creating a floppy image (using WinImage or similar) and relaying resulting
file over...

If I can be of additional assistance, let me know.

Thank you!

Reply 3 of 9, by Mithloraite

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madamehelga wrote:

used to be Phoenix BIOS IIRC

Indeed. 😀

The board seems OK and gave the following results.

System shadow is always ON. No way to disable it.
863f6f5d832a.jpg

The SXL cpu is great with this board 😀
1989ba8bb084.jpg

The program did not say anything upon completion but BIOSDUMP.BIN file appeared. 😀
1546ee5b4eed.jpg

I will try to upload it into the BIOS section of VOGONS drivers in case someone else might need it.

P.S.
For now, it looks like victory. That 4349 of mine has survived after all. Good I removed the acid battery before it did harm.

Well, for anyone feeling good about this story, an invigorating song... 😀
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqaysClpnsE

Perfection is the key. Fatality is the key. (c)

Reply 4 of 9, by madamehelga

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Hey Mith,

This is awesome! Thanks a lot for taking the time to do this.

I have retrieved the image and programmed it.

Unfortunately, the board still isn't giving any life signs 🙁 (no matter the memory, cache or VGA).

The board bears a 'TI486SXL only' sticker in PGA-168 socket area BUT the CPU inserted
is a plain ol' 486SX. What is more, I vaguely remember this 486SX CPU being originally
socketed in the board (I think there was a warranty sticker placed over the CPU and the board).
Weird.

So, remember when I said the jumpers matched TI486SXL? Wrong. They match a 486SX
(at least per the manual that I pulled from mobokive). More than that, I took a closer look
at the board and it looks to have been reworked (by a human, with soldering iron) [!]

Check this out: http://i.imgur.com/gsWdoLl.jpg
See JP48, JP7, JP12 (human) and compare with, say, JP19, or the two jumpers behind JP7 (robot).

Warranty sticker (suggesting sale of 486SX system) and manual rework just don't add up...
What PC vendor would procure OEM-ish boards for TI486SXL and then manually rework them for 486SX?!

Anyway, I have examined all manual solders and confirmed they're fine.
KBC seems to have lost a pin but I soldered a piece of wire in its stead (tested OK).
I also checked other KBCs -- they made no difference (TBH, I would expect the board to beep even with KBC absent).
Ordered couple of port 80 cards to determine if ROM code is executed by the CPU (at this time, I have no way
of telling -- wish I had a scope and/or logic analyzer;).

Board pics are at http://imgur.com/a/sZPMB

I am puzzled.

Reply 5 of 9, by Mithloraite

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Manual jumper hard-wiring on this board may look terrifying 😀 But the board might be OK. Someone may have got it without the OEM SXL cpu or sold it and tried to use standard Intel. Even a company might try that trick. (that warranty sticker)
In the socket 3 it is against the "SXL only" requirement. So he might have used another BIOS. Losing/throwing away the original. We know it was removed. Some people use BIOS from other similar boards, sometimes it even works. Maybe this Intel really worked like that.

What we have now is the original BIOS. so Intel in socket 3 168 PGA should not work. Needs to be pulled off... I suppose.

I would check the manual, what setting was it wired to originally, -without- the added manual soldering? A 386?

I would completely remove all added "home-made" (later) wiring and try to set it for 386 cpu, 132 PGA socket.
With my BIOS it should take Cyrix DLC or Ti486 DLC/E. These are cheap and common processors.
(The didderence with SXL that I had while running the board is the internal cache amount... 8 kB vs 1kB. For testing purposes there is no difference really.)

Fabian (amoretro.de), a collector, was selling some Ti SXL processors on eBay. Big cache, 8kB, sort of inflated price 57 Euro or was it 58. 😀 No matter, for tests the mentioned 1kB cache models should be -great-. These are some 10-14 Euro.

P.S. another option would be wiring it to a standard AMD DX-40 386, 132 PGA cpu. It might also be supported.
But it is less sure. DLC(E)-40 and SXL-40 are quite similar but this one must have another, its own, setting.

Perfection is the key. Fatality is the key. (c)

Reply 6 of 9, by Mithloraite

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as for the board condition, this board is a complete copy of my board. Green color not yellow, all inscriptions/part markings.

Good thing, the cache 256kB was not removed from your board. It's a good sign.

Perfection is the key. Fatality is the key. (c)

Reply 7 of 9, by Jed118

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Hey, got your message. I'm going to be setting up the EXP mainboard soon (week or two) again to try to make it work. I'll run your batch file then.

Youtube channel- The Kombinator
What's for sale? my eBay!

Reply 8 of 9, by holoprox

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Today I got lucky (2-nd time in a row) - got 486SX-33 CPU for 2$ (3 months after getting EXT 4349 MoBo for 9$)
The irony is that on the motherboard is written that Am486 is recommended, but i found nowhere settings for Am486DX2-66 (bought for another 2$)

Found in this post pictures of 486SX jumper config also on another site the picture below
Both are somewhat different from the instructions found on:
https://stason.org/TULARC/pc/motherboards/D/D … 86-EXP4349.html
I needed to solder a pinheader in JP5
differences:
JP23: 2-3
JP16: open
JP17: closed

Result with 2 chips 4MB FPM 72 pin ram:

***WATCH THIS YouTube VIDEO***

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/H0bfWOf2RDo

***WATCH THIS YouTube VIDEO***

Tried also 2 sets by 2 *16MB 72pin (FPM for sure!) ramsticks (9chips) - same result!
Tried also 2 sets by 4 *1MB 30pin ramsticks (3chips and 9chips) - same result!

Is it sure that cpu is working correctly (dead man cold, but only around 3W?) if i get readings on my ISA diag card?

Do You have any suggestions?

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100+ retro computers on board!
50+ flightsticks!

Reply 9 of 9, by holoprox

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The problem was tiny as human hair track cut near a mounting hole near the ram slots...

https://youtu.be/VozowljEbeE

Just found that for the 3 months wait for a normally priced CPU i've found original paper manual scanned in a stupid .pcx format, i have converted it as pdf and merged all files - feel free to download it as you please.

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100+ retro computers on board!
50+ flightsticks!