Artex wrote:

Great, solid board. I built a decent system around it using an AMD-X5-133ADZ (Am5x86-P75) in WB mode: […]
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Great, solid board. I built a decent system around it using an AMD-X5-133ADZ (Am5x86-P75) in WB mode:

...my 133Mhz results here: Re: Build 486's And They Will Come! Suggestions please!

...and 160Mhz OC results here: Build 486's And They Will Come! Suggestions please!

..and my scanned manual here: download/file.php?id=14937

feipoa wrote:

If you are inclined to spend a lot of money on graphics, you could buy a Creative 3D Blaster VLB card.

And DO let me know if you find one.. 😜

see im jealous - i just wanna get to the good parts like u have gotten to.. im stuck debugging this bs problem!!
what IO controller are u using in your box artex?
are they winbond?
is there any chance winbond is just incompatible with the asus board? causing wierd problems like no mouse working?

hey guys
had some more question re: this motherboard of mine
so i thought id just ask in my original thread..

im kinda foggy on the details here
i know i can upgrade the cpu in my asus board here
to a cyrix? or amd? or something?

Asus VL/I-486SV2GX4

im just lookin at phils page here :
http://www.philscomputerlab.com/asus-vli-486sv2gx4.html

which cpu is the best (and stable) cpu that i can upgrade to on this board?
is it the AMD 5x86 CPU? is that one equivalent to a first gen pentium or something? can anyone refresh me on the details??
i been away from all this stuff for a bit!

Manual here: download/file.php?id=14937

I have two of these boards - one of which is using a Cyrix 120Mhz, and the other that is running an AMD-X5-133ADZ - both chips in write-back mode. See these:
Build 486's And They Will Come! Suggestions please!
Build 486's And They Will Come! Suggestions please!

Definitely my favorite VLB board!

yo Artex!! hows it going! 😀
yes ok - but is that cyrix the very fastest? i read all this stuff some months ago but i forgot 😀
are they listed on this page in order of cpu power? or something?

chrisNova777 wrote:

yo Artex!! hows it going! 😀
yes ok - but is that cyrix the very fastest? i read all this stuff some months ago but i forgot 😀
are they listed on this page in order of cpu power? or something?

That was a huge thread from when I was on my Socket3 rampage. 😀 That AMD 133 @ 160Mhz was a screamer, but that Cyrix chip @ 120Mhz with the various registers enabled was excellent as well.

so are those speeds the same as pentium Mhz speeds?

Well, the AMD X5 133 was supposed to be close to a Pentium 75Mhz (hence Am5x86-P75), but floating point and write-back cache size is a factor too so you can't just look at Mhz. Either way, at 160Mhz, the AMD is close to a Pentium 90Mhz.

🤣 - didn't realize I already posted everything earlier in the thread. Glad tomorrow is Friday (sigh).

oops yea guess i should just re-read the thread seems like the info im after is here afterall

I overclocked a Pentium Overdrive to 100mhz in that board, and I still think it's the fastest benched in Phil's VGA benchmark database. Putting a Cyrix 133mhz (if you can find one!) will be quicker in some tests.

gerwin wrote:

Nice motherboard. I have a noname UMC-based one with a similar layout, yet no PS/2 header or SMC components.
Some questions: What CPU is installed? Where did you obtain the 16MB FPM Simms, are they 70 or 60ns?

hi gerwin
sorry it seems i didnt respond to you before? my apologies.. i was overcome with information i guess back at that moment

the 16mb simms were given to me from a friend from california who owns a computer repair shop
i think he took them from old pcs ? or old macs? i think they are 60ns!! but im not sure

and the cpu i had (have) installed is an AMD AM486-DX2-80

so is the pentium overdrive 100mhz the best INTEL cpu i could put in this board?
im guessing yes?
are those rare? hard to find? or easily obtainable?
anyone care to make a suggestion for me on which cpu to go for?

just taking a good long look at this benchmark by feipoa
so my current cpu is pretty low on the chart (not even on the chart)
but its score would be somewhere in the middle between 38 + 51
so id guess 45? or so? so i guess if i upgraded the cpu i could more than double the performance
of the dx2- 80 cpu?

I'd say 45ish is about right, for an AMD DX2-80. It'd be between the AMD DX2-66 and the AMD DX4-100, weighted a little high due to the 40MHz bus, depending on whether you can use WB cache or not. IIRC the AMD DX2s had WT L1 cache.

The options that are twice as fast are all pretty much overclocked options, and you'll have to do some hunting to find one that'll work. Intel never actually made a 100MHz POD chip, but some of the 83MHz ones will overclock correctly (that's what the POD-100 entry on the chart is). The Cyrix 5x86 options also require a board that likes enabling the extra features, plus the overclock - again, hit-or-miss, and the AMD 5x86-180 is (60MHz x3), IIRC. Boards that usefully support a 60MHz FSB are rare.

If you want to make sure it's rock-solid stable, the AMD 5x86-133 is the safest option: that'll perform about like a Pentium 75, a little faster for pure integer munching, a little slower for memory-bound stuff, a lot slower for floating point. Since your board is fine with a 40MHz FSB, you can probably overclock to 160, which will put performance closer to a P90, with the caveats noted above. Most - but not quite all - AMD 5x86-P75s are stable at 160MHz. You *must* put a fan on it, though, even at stock clocks. If your fan is loud, you can oil it, and if that doesn't help, Socket 3 coolers are still in production believe it or not.

Pentiums are superscalar (dual-issue in-order) and use a 66MHz FSB, plus have a much faster FPU. Accordingly, they're more than twice as fast clock-for-clock on floating point math, and about 40-50% faster for integer math. Instruction and scheduling optimizations (in assembler or by the compiler) can shift this delta a bit one way or the other. That's why the POD chips perform so well despite lower clock speeds, and also why you can't just compare MHz between a 486-class and a Pentium-class CPU. (Honestly, you can't really within Pentium-class chips either. A Pentium MMX @233 is faster than an AMD K6 at the same speed, but an AMD K6-III+ would be faster than the PMMX, and a P2 would beat any of the three.)

thanks jade_angel!

As mentioned above, Intel overdrives at 83Mhz are tough to get to 100mhz stable (will crash in DOS Quake), unless you do some modding. It's a decent processor with its floating point performance (also mentioned above) but I'd still go for the Cyrix just for the 'cool' factor or the AMD 5x86-133 @ 160Mhz for the speed.

Pentium 83's are not so difficult to modify. I really thought half the forum would have jumped on board after posting this, download/file.php?id=20652&mode=view
Very few are truely stable at 100 MHz without the 4 V modification. So far, I have modified two such POD83's which were not stable at 100 MHz and stock voltage and became stable after the mod. For obtainable CPUs, I would go with either: POD100, Cyrix 5x86-120 with enhancements enabled, or Am5x86-160. The Cyrix 5x86-120 can be problematic with getting the cache working at the fastest timings, however if you limit your L2 cache to 256 KB in two banks (9 chips, not 5), you should be OK in most motherboards. It is always fun to play with the Cyrix 5x86 registers to increase your performance. If you want to foray into early 3D games, a POD100 would be the best, but an Am8x86-160 or Cyrix 5x86-120 will also allow for some playable titles. An Intel DX4-120 also makes for an interesting system, but probably only because so few people have setup such a system.

I do plan on re-running the 486 benchmark to fix a few minor bugs and to greatly increase the number of early 3D titles benchmarks. Will also include P75/90/100 and 386-to-486 upgrade chips, amonst other things.

What I would really like to setup is an Am8x56-180 system, however, after testing a dozen Am5x86 chips, 180 MHz was not stable. There are a few reports of 180 MHz operation, but I think a stable system is almost impossible.

ok so whats the safest bet for someone who is not so technically inclined to debug + mess around with stability issues?

is the dx4 120 intel really a 100 overclocked to 120? because i cant seem to find any 120s 😉
i wish this chart was remarked to show which cpus are overclocked and which are at base frequency

is this an easy thing to go about doing? just drop in the chip?

note: admins is there an easy way for me to resize images smaller a bit like in posts like this?

should i just get a normal intel or AMD DX4-100Mhz chip?
or should i just leave the 80mhz cpu in its place..
is there issues with heat as u go above dx2-80mhz?

There is an easy way to resize the images. You resize them in any photo editing program before you upload it.

The easiest, least technical, approach is to use an Am5x86-133 overclocked to 160 MHz or an Intel DX4-100 overclocked to 120 MHz. For the Intel DX4, find one with &EW, this means it has write-back L1 cache. &E is write-through cache and is slower.

To overclock, you set the system up for Am5x86-133 or DX4-100, respectively, then move the jumper from 33 Mhz FSB to 40 MHz FSB.

wouldnt overclocking this board introduce instabilities with the VESA LOCAL BUS?
im using 2 vlb cards - ive had issues already so far.. thats why i have my current chip running as at 66mhz because i read that u had to have it be a multiple of 33? for stability

WRT image resizing, I recommend either using Imgur (Making clickable embedded images using Imgur image hosting service ) or uploading attachments directly to VOGONS as the easiest way to resize right now.

chrisNova777 wrote:

wouldnt overclocking this board introduce instabilities with the VESA LOCAL BUS?
im using 2 vlb cards - ive had issues already so far.. thats why i have my current chip running as at 66mhz because i read that u had to have it be a multiple of 33? for stability

Well, test it. 40MHz is theoretically out of spec for VLB, but some cards work just fine anyway. Others don't. Still others work, but you have to twiddle various wait state knobs.

I'd get the 5x86-133 anyway, then crank the bus speed up to 40MHz and see if everything works reliably. If it doesn't, drop the bus back down to 33 - you'll still get a net win with the faster CPU (and better cache).

As for heat - yes, all the faster-than-66MHz chips generally need active cooling. Some DX4-100s have just a large heat sink - they're kinda on the upper end of what can get away with such a thing, though in a modern case with enough airflow to accommodate a modern 65W+ CPU and 70W+ GPU, you might be OK anyway. That said, Socket 3 fans are not hard to find or expensive, so I'd be inclined not to risk it. Unlike modernish CPUs, an overheated 486 can and will self-destruct, and doesn't really have the sensors to warn you about it in advance. (And by the time the case gets hot, the CPU's already hotter than heck's hinges, so don't rely on that.)