WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

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WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby bbhaag » 2015-10-24 @ 12:44

I need some help figuring this one out because I'm having no luck on my own. I recently installed WFW 3.11 and now when I boot into windows and try to install programs windows tells me I don't have enough RAM even though I know I do.

When I go into a DOS prompt from windows and type mem /c/p it seems that win386 is chewing up all my ram. What is this and how do I stop it?
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby alexanrs » 2015-10-24 @ 14:28

Calm down... are you talking about conventional memory? If you are talking about UMBs then it is normal: Windows will grab all UMBs when it starts... Make sure you have well over 500KB of free conventional memory before starting Windows. Also, mem /c /p inside Windows isn't a great diagnostics utility: a DOS box inside Windows is a snapshot of the system before Windows took over, and Windows itself is managing XMS and EMS there, so it is not representative of how the system's memory actually is.

AFAIK there are two possible issues here. Your PC has either too much memory and that is confusing some installers, or you don't have enough conventional memory free. Take a look here for a few utilities that reduce how much conventional memory Windows uses.
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby matze79 » 2015-10-24 @ 16:01

There are parameters for setups to bypass Memory check. What programms to you try to install ? Internet Explorer ?
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby swaaye » 2015-10-24 @ 17:30

How about some specs on this machine? This sort of error can be caused by many things.
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby Matth79 » 2015-10-24 @ 23:12

Might be one of those cases where "1MBFort" is needed http://www.mcpressonline.com/operating- ... error.html

Windows can use up too much of the below 1MB memory for code, and then not be able to find a small segment needed for every program - it's one way that Windows can be "out of memory" when it really has plenty (even if that does need some swap).
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby bbhaag » 2015-10-25 @ 04:53

Sorry for the post and run. Got called into work today....

So to answer a few questions. Yes I was trying to install IE5.0 when I got the error message. I've been messing around with a 3com network card. Conventional memory usage under DOS sits right at 611k free. System specs are an AMD 66mhz 486, 68mb of ram, SB16, and a S3 Trio64v 2mb card.
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby matze79 » 2015-10-25 @ 07:36

Thats simple, you need to add a Parameter if i remember right setup.exe /X:16
This should bypass Memory Check (Installer Bug)
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby bbhaag » 2015-10-30 @ 03:42

matze79 wrote:Thats simple, you need to add a Parameter if i remember right setup.exe /X:16
This should bypass Memory Check (Installer Bug)


Thank you. Your parameter wasn't quit right but using it as a guide I was able to find this handy kb239550 on Microsoft's website. I changed x to f and boom! it installed.
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby Gahhhrrrlic » 2019-6-06 @ 20:28

Sorry to necro a topic but I'm having the exact same issue. The only difference is that I have had this problem for so long that I'm deep into troubleshooting territory and have the most basic setup right now with nothing else installed. Essentially from a wiped hard drive the sequence I followed was:

Install DOS 6.22
Install sound drivers and test
Install WFW 3.11
Install sound drivers for windows
Add UDVD and MSCDEX and alter Config and Autoexec to enable CD-ROM support
With drive letter now showing in Windows as well as DOS, I tried to install Groliers Multimedia Encyclopedia and got the following error:

"There is not enough memory to start the specified application. Quit one or more applications, and then try again."

However nothing is running other than file manager at the time and I have 8MB of RAM so WTF?

I read about these programs like 1MBFort and such but we're talking about an "out of the box" clean install of windows, just as someone in the 90s would have done it. Surely it's not supposed to break like this without the use of 3rd party apps???
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby Caluser2000 » 2019-6-07 @ 05:40

Max ram Win 3.* can see is 64megs iirc. Drop it down to 32megs or 16megs an see what happens.
Last edited by Caluser2000 on 2019-6-07 @ 05:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby Gahhhrrrlic » 2019-6-07 @ 05:42

Caluser2000 wrote:Max ram Win 3.* can see is 64megs iirc.



? Not sure what that relates to. I have 8MB and the OS is saying I don't have enough to run a setup file.
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby Caluser2000 » 2019-6-07 @ 05:44

Run checkit then to see if any of it is faulty.
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby Gahhhrrrlic » 2019-6-07 @ 05:52

Caluser2000 wrote:Run checkit then to see if any of it is faulty.


If you mean a memory diagnostic tool then I have already done that. I let it run for hours this morning and no errors.
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby Jo22 » 2019-6-07 @ 09:30

Caluser2000 wrote:Max ram Win 3.* can see is 64megs iirc. Drop it down to 32megs or 16megs an see what happens.

Hi, that might only be a limit of Himem.sys that ships with Windows 3.1 I believe.
The limit for Windows 3.0 in this respect was 16MiB, by the way. :)

Windows 3.1x itself can use 512MiB no problem (512MiB directly in Standard Mode).
In 386 Enhanced mode, that memory is divided in 256MiB physical and 256MiB virtual memory.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/84388/windows-3-1-memory-limits

That being said, Windows needs contiguous memory.
If there's insufficient memory below 1MiB, it won't work correctly.

https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?p=750865#p750865
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby Gahhhrrrlic » 2019-6-07 @ 16:40

Jo22 wrote:
Caluser2000 wrote:Max ram Win 3.* can see is 64megs iirc. Drop it down to 32megs or 16megs an see what happens.

Hi, that might only be a limit of Himem.sys that ships with Windows 3.1 I believe.
The limit for Windows 3.0 in this respect was 16MiB, by the way. :)

Windows 3.1x itself can use 512MiB no problem (512MiB directly in Standard Mode).
In 386 Enhanced mode, that memory is divided in 256MiB physical and 256MiB virtual memory.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/84388/windows-3-1-memory-limits

That being said, Windows needs contiguous memory.
If there's insufficient memory below 1MiB, it won't work correctly.

https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?p=750865#p750865


Thank you and I will try it but I still don't understand how a fresh copy of windows with nothing on it has a lack of contiguous space, even below 1MB. I've done a very good job of neatly organizing my conventional memory in the past so that there's a lot of it available and without any TSRs there's even more. mem reports I have 600 or so kb of conventional memory and 7MB of free extended. That sounds rather good to me so windows choking on a setup file right out of the box raises red flags that there's a software issue causing it to misuse that memory.
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby Gahhhrrrlic » 2019-6-07 @ 16:59

Also, I can't figure out how to use this program (or it isn't working). There were no installation instructions so I simply put it on a floppy, started windows and ran the exe. It appeared to do nothing and my setup file still throws the same memory error.
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby noshutdown » 2019-6-07 @ 18:28

i have a question here:
Microsoft Windows version 3.1, in both standard and 386 enhanced mode, allocates the memory that it uses from the XMS driver. The only exception occurs when you run Windows in standard mode because standard mode Windows can allocate memory from a Virtual Control Program Interface (VCPI) provider (server) or a DOS Protected Mode Interface (DPMI) provider. Please note that standard mode has this capability, but 386 enhanced mode does not.

since dpmi is faster than xms, does this mean that standard mode is faster than 386 enhanced mode?
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby Gahhhrrrlic » 2019-6-09 @ 17:25

I've been unsuccessful in getting Fix1MB to work (perhaps because I don't know how to use it and there's no documentation for it) and I can't figure out what's wrong with the OS otherwise so the setup still throws the memory error. Can anyone help?
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby Jo22 » 2019-6-09 @ 18:34

Hm. You could save your autoexec.bat/config.sys and start MemMaker.
It supports Windows 2.x/3.0/3.1x and after it did the optimizations, you can restore your old files.
After this, Windows should behave better. I tried this in order to make Windows 2.03 and 3.0 (Real-Mode) aweare of EMS..

If that doesn't work, I'd give Qemm7 or that Helix program a chance.

PS: Do you have got an ethernet card installed ?
- If yes, please make sure it isn't using the region of memory (UMA) that Windows tries to use.

Edit:
noshutdown wrote:i have a question here:
Microsoft Windows version 3.1, in both standard and 386 enhanced mode, allocates the memory that it uses from the XMS driver.
The only exception occurs when you run Windows in standard mode because standard mode Windows can allocate memory from a Virtual Control Program Interface (VCPI)
provider (server) or a DOS Protected Mode Interface (DPMI) provider. Please note that standard mode has this capability, but 386 enhanced mode does not.

since dpmi is faster than xms, does this mean that standard mode is faster than 386 enhanced mode?

Not sure if I can answer this, but..
a) Yes, Standard Mode is usually quicker in practice. It is favoured by Windows 3.1 if it is being run on a 386 class computer that is low on memory (less than ~2MiB).
b) OS/2 also had got a special version of Win 3.x (Win-OS/2) that was an DPMI client instead of a DPMI host. That way, it could bypass the XMS interface.
c) There are two Standard Modes in Windows 3.1x (non-WfW). One uses the kernel286/dosx on 80286 PCs, the other one uses kernel386, but without all the virtual stuff (VXDs, swap file etc.)
d) Enhanced Mode of Windows contains the analogue of EMM386. That's why it has trouble in coexisting with other memory managers (those from EMS cards etc).
Except with those that are Windows-aware or provide APIs that Windows can use to get its memory from.
- The core issue is that memory managers do take control of Protected-Mode (V86) and thus Windows can't take over. It has to cooperate with them somehow.

Edit:
"Standard Mode" refers to an operating mode of Windows. On a 286 it uses krnl286/dosx and 16-Bit Protected-Mode (no V86, 64KiB segments), on 386+ it uses krnl386 and 32-Bit Protected-Mode.
"386 Enhanced Mode" refers to an operating mode of Windows. It uses 32-Bit Protected-Mode with V86 and Paging (4KiB segments).
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Re: WFW 3.11 using all available ram?

Postby Gahhhrrrlic » 2019-6-09 @ 19:04

No ethernet. I took it out. Thing is, there's nothing to optimize because this is a fresh windows install and I am working with only the autoexec/config that windows produces after dos is installed so it's got essentially nothing in it. This is why I can't figure out why there's a memory problem. If it has something to do with the fragmentation of the lower 1MB (if I got that right), then I find that odd considering a fresh install but I'm willing to give that a try except that Fix1MB doesn't seem to do anything at all. I'm probably not invoking it properly but with no instructions around I don't know the right way to use it.
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