Hello people, I wanted to ask a question, I was offered a Yamaha TG-300 at a very low price, wanted to know if the Yamaha TG-300 same function that a Roland SC-55 for general midi, or whait a SC55 thanks
After watching this video, I'd probably jump all over it if the price was low...
Looks very very good! , but , surely someone has this module midi and we could say how it works with games, would have standard sound? If so it would be a good buy, but only if it is 100% compatible with games and if it sounds like GM or SC55
SC-55 is the de-facto standard for General MIDI in DOS games. Most game music has been composed using a SC-55 and you will get a very balanced music. so I would get a SC-55 first. Then you can check out other modules and play around with them. You might prefer the way they sound, but it does depend on the game.
Unfortunately General MIDI was a standard for instruments, but not for how it sounds. So every GM device will sound quite different. So to answer your question, no, the TG-300 will not sound like the SC-55.
wrote:SC-55 is the de-facto standard for General MIDI in DOS games. Most game music has been composed using a SC-55 and you will get a very balanced music. so I would get a SC-55 first. Then you can check out other modules and play around with them. You might prefer the way they sound, but it does depend on the game.
Unfortunately General MIDI was a standard for instruments, but not for how it sounds. So every GM device will sound quite different. So to answer your question, no, the TG-300 will not sound like the SC-55.
Thanks for the fast answer , and what about SC-88 ? , I have the opportunity to buy cheap too
I agree 101% with what Phil wrote. The SC-88 is a nice synth too and it has a SC-55 (mk2) mode so it will sound the same . I would definitely get it if it was cheap as I can't think of any disadvantage owning it instead of a SC-55mk2 (though you do have to press the "sc-55" button on it 🤣 🤣 🤣)
Exelent! 🤣
The best option for you really depends n what you want to do with them. If games are the only final end usage then yeah get an SC-55. But if the TG-300 is really at low price why not get it? It's a fantastic GM device, probably much more capable than the GM SC-55, and will probably serve you better if you also want to use it for other stuff.
For MIDI music opinions i wouldn't ask no one but Cloudschatze. Check his youtube channel. He's got some Yamaha TG-100 stuff there, and you can find plenty of Sound Canvas around youtube too so do some research before you make your decision.
Myself i really like Yamaha XG, so i have been pretty happy with my MU80 and more recently with the more compact MU15. With optimized stuff for XG it puts any Sound Canvas to shame.
Since General Midi is a solid standard, both game music and other midis sound absolutely fine on any GM module, soundcard or daughterboard.
So you should just follow your ears. Listen some Sound Canvas samples and TG-300 samples. Roland is the most popular, but maybe you like the Yamaha sound the most 😀
People might try to convince you that game music is only meant for a Sound Canvas, and that any other module/card lacks balance. While it's true that the Sound Canvas was what most composers used, do not underestimate the General Midi standard; GM music sounds the same on any GM module or card, except for the sound of the samples. And that's where personal taste comes in 😁
Yamaha is usually stronger for rock, Roland for pop, and E-MU for orchestral. But that's my experience, just check out some demos and let your ears and taste be your guide.
wrote:Since General Midi is a solid standard, both game music and other midis sound absolutely fine on any GM module, soundcard or dau […]
Since General Midi is a solid standard, both game music and other midis sound absolutely fine on any GM module, soundcard or daughterboard.
So you should just follow your ears. Listen some Sound Canvas samples and TG-300 samples. Roland is the most popular, but maybe you like the Yamaha sound the most 😀
People might try to convince you that game music is only meant for a Sound Canvas, and that any other module/card lacks balance. While it's true that the Sound Canvas was what most composers used, do not underestimate the General Midi standard; GM music sounds the same on any GM module or card, except for the sound of the samples. And that's where personal taste comes in 😁
Yamaha is usually stronger for rock, Roland for pop, and E-MU for orchestral. But that's my experience, just check out some demos and let your ears and taste be your guide.
I would say it's sometimes a hit and miss.
For your more mainstream players, despite the difference in samples being used (how they sound), they all tend to be fairly good in their own unique way.
However, when you start to play around with wave table based sound cards, then the quality of the samples can vary dramatically.
True. For example, i think the GUS sounds very bad for GM. Even the AWE32 sounds better with it's 1MB ROM IMO.
However on the AWE it's hard to tell a flute from a trumpet :p
In my experience a 4MB ROM is great for realistic samples.
wrote:True. For example, i think the GUS sounds very bad for GM. Even the AWE32 sounds better with it's 1MB ROM IMO.
However on the AWE it's hard to tell a flute from a trumpet :p
This is kind of subjective too. For example, I now prefer DOOM GM music on the GUS Classic, but only after switching to a different set of instrument matches - especially for the guitar and drum kits.
My Retro B:\ytes YouTube Channel & Retro Collection
wrote:wrote:True. For example, i think the GUS sounds very bad for GM. Even the AWE32 sounds better with it's 1MB ROM IMO.
However on the AWE it's hard to tell a flute from a trumpet :p
I think that the AWE32/64's trumpet and electric guitar sound horrible (on the standard 1MB ROM set). However, once cannot expect "perfect" (subjective again) samples if you squeeze 128+ instruments into a 1MB ROM.
Ironically enough, with my AWE64, some of the samples that I tried out with their WaveGuide/WaveSynth technology also didn't sound too bad (unfortunately, this only works under Windows).
It gets even worse when you try to squeeze all your samples into 512 KB ROM. Just listen to the "standard" Orchid Soundwave 32 sample set - it sounds much better with the Innovasion ROM chips but, I was never able to obtain one of those chips (wonder if someone still has those for sale).
A while ago, I listened to what the soundtrack of Doom 1's E1M1 level sounded like on different MIDI devices (both samplers & wavetable based sound cards).
After comparing the soundtrack between the SC-55, the SC-88 & Yamaha's DB50XG/SW60XG, I must admit that the electric guitar sounds much better on the SC-88 and the Yamaha DB50XG/SW60XG.
However, this is once again based on what sounds good to me. Someone else might again think the SC-55's (or even the AWE32's) electric guitar sounds very nice.
Couldn't agree more about the AWE trumpet and ESPECIALLY the electric guitar. It doesn't sound like a guitar at all xD
I had no experience with the Orchid Soundwave 32, so i looked it up. And 🤣, it sounds almost as bad as the Sega32x soundtrack for Doom, it doesn't even sound like wavetable. In fact it sounds like a bad OPL emulator!
For Doom E1M1 my favourite device is the Arachno SoundFont!
Here a demo. It's a YT video of a project of mine. Using a second PC as a MIDI box connected to a DOS PC 😀
https://youtu.be/nvuncHhza5A?t=12m34s
So yes, it's totally subjective, every module and SoundFont has it's own flair, that's all part of the fun 😁
Although i prefer my Creative Waveblaster 1 for anything GM, there are brilliant soundfonts around indeed. Arachno is certainly one of the best. High quality, classic sounds, balanced. So i agree its great for E1M1 and doom in general.
A lot of the Yamaha MU series synths have a "TG300B" mode. Though, I've never used it, I imagine it may function similar to the SC-88's SC-55 mode.
wrote:A lot of the Yamaha MU series synths have a "TG300B" mode. Though, I've never used it, I imagine it may function similar to the SC-88's SC-55 mode.
Correct, i think all MU series support a TG300 mode which will activate when you perform a GS reset or play a GS midi. Later high end MU modules are 100% GS compatible, like the MU2000EX:
I purchased a TG300 several months ago. It's an interesting, more-capable alternative to the SC-55, but not something that I would recommend as a direct substitute, for many of the reasons already mentioned. Phil's statement is pretty spot-on, with respect to the Sound Canvas being the compositional tool for the majority of General MIDI sequences, gaming or otherwise, and while the TG300 makes a mostly fair attempt at SC/GS playback compatibility (as opposed to Yamaha's earlier TG100), a number of instruments remain gratingly unbalanced in comparison.
Yamaha seemed to struggle in their early attempts to define a place in the General MIDI market. Consider the fact that the TG300 is unable to faithfully reproduce General MIDI sequences composed on or for their earlier TG100 tone generator, and likewise, how the later MU modules are unable to do the same for TG300-composed sequences. It's Thunderdome!
Perhaps then, it's easy to see why the sufficiently advanced TG300 was abandoned, not a year after its release, in favor of the MU80/50 tone generators that (finally) adhered to a standard (XG) seemingly intended as much for Yamaha as it was for everyone else.
It's also interesting to note that, while the XG-based MU modules feature the mentioned, fully-GS-compatible, "TG300B" mode, even that bears little sonic resemblance to the TG300's, "GM-B" mode, from which it and its namesake are derived. Notwithstanding, the TG300B mode FINALLY provides a listening experience comparable to that of the Sound Canvas line, for playback of SC-composed GS and General MIDI sequences.
wrote:People might try to convince you that game music is only meant for a Sound Canvas, and that any other module/card lacks balance.
There's really no convincing required; such imbalances provided the catalyst for the creation of "The Fat Seal" testing and certification process.
wrote:Later high end MU modules are 100% GS compatible, like the MU2000EX:
This is actually true of any of the cards/units with the TG300B mode; the MU2000EX just officially recognizes that same GS support as such.
Regarding the Fat Seal: Interesting, i had never heard of it before. So its basicly a seal you can earn if your card has the right 'tone' as the composers intended. Which cards have this seal?
