Just curious why you're replacing it with a CD-RW.

tayyare wrote:

jheronimus wrote:

Tetrium wrote:

I never use Network Cards in any of my machines, they are all single-player machines. And NIC's would just use an IRQ for no good reason.

I've thought of it more as a mean to transfer files/download software. Otherwise I would just have to burn a CD-RW whenever I need something.

This is exactly why I put a NIC in each and every one my machines. I suggest you go for it. What's the hazard from something using an IRQ which you will not be using for anything else, anyway? 🤣

I personally suggest 3com 3c90x series but people here also use Intel and Realtek models very happily. There are even Gigabit cards (Intel, etc.) with proper Windows 98 drivers.

Heh, apparently jheronimus quoted brostenen, but added my name to what he said about not using any NICs. Now the really funny part is, it could actually have been written by me anyway 😁

Well...for most of the older rigs that is. I think most of the rigs I build were actually meant for being networked for playing multiplayer games.
But I never bothered to transfer stuff by network, I simply used USB drive or an external drive as this way I don't have to keep using 2 computers at once simply because I have to do a file transfer each and every time I want to copy something. With a flash drive, I only have to use a single computer at a time and if it's a bit slower, I have all the time in the world 😁

Tetrium wrote:

Heh, apparently jheronimus quoted brostenen, but added my name to what he said about not using any NICs. Now the really funny part is, it could actually have been written by me anyway 😁

Fixed. 😉

Stiletto wrote:

Tetrium wrote:

Heh, apparently jheronimus quoted brostenen, but added my name to what he said about not using any NICs. Now the really funny part is, it could actually have been written by me anyway 😁

Fixed. 😉

Cheers 😁

Some update on my experience so far

1) I am really glad you guys persuaded me not to get a second Voodoo 2 card. Turns out, I wouldn't be able to insert it, as the CPU placement restricts the number of full-length PCI cards I can use. Basically, with the added Voodoo and the 3COM NIC card I have only some place for an ISA card.

Also, the guys at the store told me that a 1.8m f2m VGA connector wouldn't work as a loopback cable for my Voodoo. The length would add some serious lag, they said. So I have to find a proper pass-through cable. I've seen some manuals on how to solder one, but no way I can do that.

2) A closer look inside of the case revealed there is no way I can move the I/O ports to the holes. As it is, those holes are just too close to the capacitors on the motherboard.

3) A Sony CD-RW drive I picked has an issue where it just randomly closes the tray right after you open it. Googling revealed that this is a common issue (with Sony in particular). The common solution seems to be just cleaning the tray rails, which I did. It somewhat eased the issue, but I don't believe it made it go away completely.

4) NIC speed sucks. Basically it only lets me download files from the local network at 150-200 KB/s.

5) Just because the software supports Win98 doesn't mean it would work on a Pentium — probably because of the pretty long Win98 lifecycle. Case in point — IE6. Not only does it work much slower, it also puts incredible stress on the system. IE5 is absolutely useable. Also weird, but it actually works better with modern sites than the Netscape 4.79 I used. I always thought that everyone used Netscape back in the day (I didn't have Internet in late 90s). Maybe IE5 is actually younger than NS4, but may be it just doesn't support many things and skips them instead of trying to render them.

1) Hmn... LAG?! Excessive length can cause image quality degradation, but not lag. I use one somewhat long cable with my Voodoo2 because it did not come with a passthrough, and it works fine enough in lower resolutions. 1080p after the passthrough is crap, though.

4) Run TCPOptimizer. Windows 98's TCP stack comes optimized for dial up connections. TCPOptimizer changes this and speeds up networking quite a bit.

5) I always stick to IE 5.5 on Windows 98. IE6 introduces a few shell glitches MS never bothered fixing.

Too bad about the I/O ports. Just secure the backplates with them as tightly as possible to prevent excessive flexing.

Grab a different CD-RW brand if you can. TDK, Memorex and Creative used to be pretty common back then; if you can find Plextor that would be even better, they were built like tanks (I have a PX-W2410A that has served me well).

I agree with alexanrs about IE6, forget about it, has quite a few issues with Windows 98; IE5.5 is more than good enough. I did use Netscape 4 back in the day but it hasn't aged well, so it's another write off (unfortunately).

alexanrs wrote:

Run TCPOptimizer. Windows 98's TCP stack comes optimized for dial up connections. TCPOptimizer changes this and speeds up networking quite a bit.

Wow, thanks. I'll definitely try that tonight!

JayCeeBee64 wrote:

Too bad about the I/O ports. Just secure the backplates with them as tightly as possible to prevent excessive flexing.

Grab a different CD-RW brand if you can. TDK, Memorex and Creative used to be pretty common back then; if you can find Plextor that would be even better, they were built like tanks (I have a PX-W2410A that has served me well).

I agree with alexanrs about IE6, forget about it, has quite a few issues with Windows 98; IE5.5 is more than good enough. I did use Netscape 4 back in the day but it hasn't aged well, so it's another write off (unfortunately).

I think the best way to solve the issue with the I/O ports flexing is to move them from the backplates (brackets) to the cutouts in the case.

As has been said, a longer cable could cause image degradation, but certainly not lag. IME Voodoo 2's deliver much better image quality in pass-through mode than Voodoo 1's, so if you stick to resolutions <= 1024x768 you should be fine.

I/O ports - the PS/2 cutout is where it probably would be if the AT mainboard hat one onboard, so I can see why you can't use that one. As for the other ports, I can't imagine that capacitors being that big.

What kind of NIC are you using? Sounds to like 10Mb. A 100Mb NIC shouldn't be THAT slow.

jheronimus wrote:

All COM, LPT, PS/2 connectors seem to be placed on separate boards that are honestly made from tinfoil and flex considerably. I'll have to replace them really soon and I'm wondering — can I place those connectors in the holes that are currently sealed? You can see them above the board slots. Looks like there is a hole for a COM port, a second PS/2 port, an LPT — everything. What kind of hardware do I need for that?

You don't need any hardware. And I don't understand the problem about "having capacitors there". As far as I can see from the picture, you should not have any problems with any normal size capacitors that you can find in a motherboard.

I just need to ask: You are not considering someway to put those connectors with their metal brackets attached, right?

You need to get rid of the metal brackets, and connect the sockets individually to corresponding holes in the case, using their hex nuts, just as they are attached to their metal brackets at the moment.

To illustrate:

This is what you have at the moment:

And this is what you need to convert it to:

tayyare wrote:

jheronimus wrote:

All COM, LPT, PS/2 connectors seem to be placed on separate boards that are honestly made from tinfoil and flex considerably. I'll have to replace them really soon and I'm wondering — can I place those connectors in the holes that are currently sealed? You can see them above the board slots. Looks like there is a hole for a COM port, a second PS/2 port, an LPT — everything. What kind of hardware do I need for that?

You don't need any hardware. And I don't understand the problem about "having capacitors there". As far as I can see from the picture, you should not have any problems with any normal size capacitors that you can find in a motherboard.

I just need to ask: You are not considering someway to put those connectors with their metal brackets attached, right?

I actually did not realize I can just dismantle the plates, which is why I asked about additional hardware. I thought you can buy standalone ports without the plate.

As to the capacitors — I'll make sure to post a photo tonight, but there is really no space between the hole for PS/2 and the motherboard.

All in all, this was more about aesthetics, and not really an issue since I already installed all the PCI cards I wanted. I'll just replace the thin bracket later, I think.

oerk wrote:

What kind of NIC are you using? Sounds to like 10Mb. A 100Mb NIC shouldn't be THAT slow.

Nope, it's a 10/100 3Com 3C905C-TXM.

gdjacobs wrote:

Just curious why you're replacing it with a CD-RW.

Too bad there is no threaded conversation mode — sorry if I'm confusing anyone 😀

My other machines are a Macbook Air and a mITX gaming rig that has literally no slot for a CD ROM. Which is why I thought it would be simpler and cheaper to download image files to my Pentium machine and burn them there instead of buying an external drive. I did not anticipate low NIC speeds though.

jheronimus wrote:

I actually did not realize I can just dismantle the plates, which is why I asked about additional hardware. I thought you can bu […]
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tayyare wrote:

jheronimus wrote:

All COM, LPT, PS/2 connectors seem to be placed on separate boards that are honestly made from tinfoil and flex considerably. I'll have to replace them really soon and I'm wondering — can I place those connectors in the holes that are currently sealed? You can see them above the board slots. Looks like there is a hole for a COM port, a second PS/2 port, an LPT — everything. What kind of hardware do I need for that?

You don't need any hardware. And I don't understand the problem about "having capacitors there". As far as I can see from the picture, you should not have any problems with any normal size capacitors that you can find in a motherboard.

I just need to ask: You are not considering someway to put those connectors with their metal brackets attached, right?

I actually did not realize I can just dismantle the plates, which is why I asked about additional hardware. I thought you can buy standalone ports without the plate.

As to the capacitors — I'll make sure to post a photo tonight, but there is really no space between the hole for PS/2 and the motherboard.

All in all, this was more about aesthetics, and not really an issue since I already installed all the PCI cards I wanted. I'll just replace the thin bracket later, I think.

Remember that you need to do your own cutout for the PS/2 mouse-port if you want to move it. Its not hard but you need to remove the motherboard to avoid getting metal dust all over it.

Or you could try to find another motherboard with the PS/2 port soldered directly to the board and use the case's prepared cutout.

Skyscraper wrote:

Remember that you need to do your own cutout for the PS/2 mouse-port if you want to move it. Its not hard but you need to remove the motherboard to avoid getting metal dust all over it.

Or you could try to find another motherboard with the PS/2 header soldered directly to the board and use the case's prepared cutout.

Thanks! Fun fact about this motherboard. When I first found its name, I was wondering why a) I've never heard about Lucky Star motherboards; b) most of the links I could find about these motherboards were in Russian. I am from Russia, but it was still weird to me — how come these mobos weren't used in Europe and US?

Turns out, this brand of motherboards was preferred by one of the big Russian 90s OEM, Formoza and they've been partners for more than 10 years. At one point they even started assembling them in Russia under the same brand.

alexanrs wrote:

1) Hmn... LAG?! Excessive length can cause image quality degradation, but not lag. I use one somewhat long cable with my Voodoo2 because it did not come with a passthrough, and it works fine enough in lower resolutions. 1080p after the passthrough is crap, though.

Yeah, an extra 1m would add between 0.0000000033 seconds (3.3 picoseconds) and 0.0000000067 seconds (6.7 picoseconds) depending on the dialectric constant of the cable.. Is this really a concern?

jheronimus wrote:

As to the capacitors — I'll make sure to post a photo tonight, but there is really no space between the hole for PS/2 and the motherboard.

Yeah, like I said, this PS/2 cutout is made for mainboards with the PS/2 connector already soldered to the mainboard. You can't use it in your case.

Some PS/2 connectors have the mounting holes so far apart they can be fitted into a D-Sub 9 cutout. Seems like yours isn't wide enough though.

jheronimus wrote:

Three observations so far:
1) everything works A LOT faster than I remember. The BIOS checks actually take longer than booting Win98 itself;

The 'BIOS check' (P.O.S.T.; Power On Self Check) shouldn't take longer than booting Windows 9x. Try to configure the BIOS for optimum boot speed. For example disable 'Boot Up Floppy Seek' and often you'll find settings like 'Disable Power On Self Test' which will disable the extensive memory checks. Also configure your IDE-drives properly; don't set all channels on 'Auto' but configure the ones needed and disable the ones that are unused.

The time needed for a P.O.S.T. varies from motherboard/BIOS. In some cases it'll just takes up a bit more than several seconds but I've also had systems (one with a Soyo 486 motherboard) which passed the P.O.S.T. in just 1 or 2 seconds (and was already starting MS-DOS) before the CRT-monitor actually got out of stand-by and displayed the image!

Thandor wrote:

jheronimus wrote:

Three observations so far:
1) everything works A LOT faster than I remember. The BIOS checks actually take longer than booting Win98 itself;

The 'BIOS check' (P.O.S.T.; Power On Self Check) shouldn't take longer than booting Windows 9x. Try to configure the BIOS for optimum boot speed. For example disable 'Boot Up Floppy Seek' and often you'll find settings like 'Disable Power On Self Test' which will disable the extensive memory checks. Also configure your IDE-drives properly; don't set all channels on 'Auto' but configure the ones needed and disable the ones that are unused.

I also guess that some checks are made every time, because I didn't replace the CMOS battery yet.