You can get Creative Vibra cards off eBay very cheaply, PCI versions are common but ISA ones are out there. Personally I think the SB16 is king, as it was top of the line for a long time, and the cards that came after it tend to be less compatible in one way or another. The Vibra was a budget version that came fairly soon after the SB16, so it is very similar with hardware support, but I believe it lacks a true OPL synth so most DOS game music won't sound 100% accurate. But it is close enough, so it probably matters only if you have memories of the original sound you want to recreate.

If you are after MIDI support then this probably means the AWE32 is your lowest option, but the AWE32 came around the same time as the Vibra so this is when things started to move away from DOS. I think the AWE cards are still pretty compatible with DOS, but they do require a bit more fiddling to get going.

If you are going to be using a lot of MIDI then an AWE card is probably the way to go, but if the machine will be used mainly for DOS games then a Vibra is probably the best option for your budget.

This is tough. The only Creative Labs sound cards with hardware MIDI are the AWE32/64; anything else requires either an add-on MIDI DB, a separate MIDI card or an external MIDI module - and all are well above your $30 budget. You may have to rethink your strategy.

Also, this belongs in Marvin (where PC hardware topics are discussed); the DOS forum is for problems/issues with DOS games. Maybe a mod can move it there for you.

Moved to Marvin.

Thank you, guys. Appreciate also moving the post to the proper forum. As I started reading through, I realized Marvin would've been a better forum. 😀

The PC in question is a Packard Bell Multimedia C110. I haven't found many positives about this system in googling it. But like I said, it's all I've got right now. And it's got ISA slots. Hopefully there are no quirks with the riser card configuration and whatever the onboard video is that it comes with. So far I've only installed Lost Treasures of Infocom (no sound needed!) and Eric the Unready. I have a handful of other DOS games I've saved over the years in both floppy and CD format, but finding some of the floppies have deteriorated over time. In particular, Disk 3 of my Tie Fighter set has a bad sector (though the files are still viewable). Lots of little issues I'm sure will continue cropping up as I dive further into this project.

Here is an AWE32 for an almost too good to be true price:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Creative-Labs-AWE32-C … sYAAOSwWnFV76pv

What do you think of that one?

Looks like the Vibra 16 ISA card start at around $13. Midi is not crucial, but would be super nice. My memories of this era are a bit jumpled after so many years. And I've recently set up a Win98SE gaming rig with SBLive! so I've gotten a taste of midi from the SBLive! Maybe I should stick with the Vibra 16 for compatibility...

edit: sweet! found some info on this mainboard:
http://j12345.users1.50megs.com/menu/pb600/PB600LAY.ASP.htm

And I've got a Voodoo3 2000 PCI that I could probably use in place of the onboard CL GD-5430 video controller.

SB16 Vibra CT2940 with OPL3 is a good card, but not abundant.*
SB16 Vibra CT2940 without OPL3 is less great, and abundant.*
SB16 Vibra CT2800 is the next best Vibra, and always has OPL3 IIRC. It should be easy to find.
SB16 CT2230 and CT2290 are some of the better non-Vibra SB16 cards.

AFAIK That AWE32 you listed is a mixup, the picture and CT number are suspect.

In general the whole SB16 / AWE32 Lineup is confusing because of the many subversions and their differences:
Which chipsets / Which expansion headers / Which FM/OPL chip / Hanging note bug behaviour / Output signal quality...

*-search these forums on the question of how to recognize it as such.

For 30$ you can get an AWE64 CT4500 or CT4380. Check out amibay - better prices then ebay.

Thanks gerwin, for breaking down the model number madness. I think I'll be aiming for the CT2800 unless something better falls in my lap. I went through all the CT2940s on ebay and none had the Yamaha OPL3 chips.

gerwin wrote:

AFAIK That AWE32 you listed is a mixup, the picture and CT number are suspect.

According to http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.de/2012/07/so … 64-options.html (recommended read!) CT3630 is an SB32 with no Soundfont RAM and no option to upgrade RAM. I suppose that's the reason it is so cheap. It still has the same 1MB Soundfont ROM as all other AWE32/64 cards.
@clueless1:
AWE64 value (basically all AWE64 except CT4390 & CT4540 which are the Gold) should usually be rather cheap, but I didn't check how it is in the US. They come with 512kb RAM, upgrading is more difficult than with AWE32/SB32.
Keep in mind that the integrated wave table synthesizer on the AWE32/64 cards can't be accessed natively over MPU401 (usually called MIDI), you either need to run the supplied emulator (which takes up some RAM and doesn't work with all games), or the game has to support the EMU8000 directly.

Which card (Crystal/Aztech) exactly do you have? Most ISA sound cards are at least Sound Blaster compatible. You don't always have to use DOS "drivers", since the games support Sound Blaster (and possibly other cards) without an external driver. Some cards need an emulator to be SB compatible, eg. most Gravis Ultrasound models. A card which doesn't need an emulator is preferable.

This. You may want to keep the Crystal Aztech card due hanging note issues, either with a SB16 or by itself.

Another option if you are looking is the YMF718/719 chipset from Yamaha. They're inexpensive, quiet, very compatible up to SB Pro (and WSS 16 bit), and have a bug free MIDI implementation.

idspispopd wrote:

According to http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.de/2012/07/so … 64-options.html (recommended read!) CT3630 is an SB32 with no Sound […]
Show full quote

gerwin wrote:

AFAIK That AWE32 you listed is a mixup, the picture and CT number are suspect.

According to http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.de/2012/07/so … 64-options.html (recommended read!) CT3630 is an SB32 with no Soundfont RAM and no option to upgrade RAM. I suppose that's the reason it is so cheap. It still has the same 1MB Soundfont ROM as all other AWE32/64 cards.
@clueless1:
AWE64 value (basically all AWE64 except CT4390 & CT4540 which are the Gold) should usually be rather cheap, but I didn't check how it is in the US. They come with 512kb RAM, upgrading is more difficult than with AWE32/SB32.
Keep in mind that the integrated wave table synthesizer on the AWE32/64 cards can't be accessed natively over MPU401 (usually called MIDI), you either need to run the supplied emulator (which takes up some RAM and doesn't work with all games), or the game has to support the EMU8000 directly.

Which card (Crystal/Aztech) exactly do you have? Most ISA sound cards are at least Sound Blaster compatible. You don't always have to use DOS "drivers", since the games support Sound Blaster (and possibly other cards) without an external driver. Some cards need an emulator to be SB compatible, eg. most Gravis Ultrasound models. A card which doesn't need an emulator is preferable.

Lots of great info, thanks. So basically you're saying if I have a Blaster variable in my autoexec.bat, the card might work? I hope that is the case. It's one of those sound cards with a modem built in. It's got a game/midi port on the back. The Crystal chip is a CS4231A-KL and the Aztech chip says AZT2316R. There's also a Rockwell chip (is that for the modem?) and a couple of Yamaha chips that look like the ones to look for on the CT2940! It looks like the one that says OPL on it is a YMF 289B -S. Lastly, there is a Toshiba 70ns memory chip.

That card doesn't sound bad. According to gerwin's list (look at his sig) the chips can be found on an Aztech Sound Galaxy Pro16 II or an Aztech Sound Galaxy WaveRider Pro 32-3D. I suppose it is none of these cards because of the Rockwell chip you mentioned, but you could try to use tools and drivers for these cards. The OPL chip is indeed a good sign.
No idea about the modem. Does the card have a modem connector? If not, can you read the exact marking on the Rockwell chip?
The memory chip *might* be a sign that the card can do wavetable. For that to be the case there should be another Aztech chip on the card, though. If it can do wavetable there is a good chance that it can be accessed through an MPU-401 interface.

I'd definitely try to get the card to work. It's possibly better suited for your purposes than a lot of Creative ISA cards.

idspispopd wrote:

That card doesn't sound bad. According to gerwin's list (look at his sig) the chips can be found on an Aztech Sound Galaxy Pro16 […]
Show full quote

That card doesn't sound bad. According to gerwin's list (look at his sig) the chips can be found on an Aztech Sound Galaxy Pro16 II or an Aztech Sound Galaxy WaveRider Pro 32-3D. I suppose it is none of these cards because of the Rockwell chip you mentioned, but you could try to use tools and drivers for these cards. The OPL chip is indeed a good sign.
No idea about the modem. Does the card have a modem connector? If not, can you read the exact marking on the Rockwell chip?
The memory chip *might* be a sign that the card can do wavetable. For that to be the case there should be another Aztech chip on the card, though. If it can do wavetable there is a good chance that it can be accessed through an MPU-401 interface.

I'd definitely try to get the card to work. It's possibly better suited for your purposes than a lot of Creative ISA cards.

I tried the Win3.1 install.exe but it requires an existing Windows installation to proceed. I dug around through the other files in the Aztech_ISA_cards.zip file here and could not find anything that would help me know how to proceed. Nothing at all that refers to DOS that I could find. It's all Win3.1 and higher. I spent most of my time in the P16II and WRP323D sub-directories.

I suppose I can try some variations of SET BLASTER and see what happens?

You generally have to use Win3.1 to unpack the install files. Good news is that you don't have to use the awful Intel PnP tool. I have the DOS drivers for an Aztech 2320 card I can pack up and upload if you like.

gdjacobs wrote:

You generally have to use Win3.1 to unpack the install files. Good news is that you don't have to use the awful Intel PnP tool. I have the DOS drivers for an Aztech 2320 card I can pack up and upload if you like.

It wouldn't hurt to try, thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62IhTnRyLzo
According to the person in this video, the soundcard only plays music in pure DOS. You get effects and music only if you run in MS-DOS mode. I'm not sure how much of an authority he is, but it's the only model-specific info I've been able to find on the soundcard in the C110.

If I were you, I'd grab anything with SB16 support I can get free of charge or almost so. Any SB16, Vibra16, SB32, AWE32, AWE64 would do. Then, if you find that your card lacks the functionality you need, you'll know what to look for.

Btw, ASUS A16C is a nice non-Creative SoundBlaster Vibra16. Cheap, abundant and well-built as well.

gdjacobs wrote:

You generally have to use Win3.1 to unpack the install files. Good news is that you don't have to use the awful Intel PnP tool. I have the DOS drivers for an Aztech 2320 card I can pack up and upload if you like.

If anyone with a Win3.1 install would be willing to unpack the Aztech 2316R drivers and upload them (or email to me) I'd be very grateful. I'm not sure this sound card will work or be any good, but I'd like try before buying a CT2800. Thanks.

Here ya go. Let me know if you have luck.

One of the lovely features of the Aztech installer is that I haven't found a way of unpacking it without having the card in the machine. Maybe it's doable with non PnP cards.

gdjacobs-thanks! I'll give it a shot as soon as I can.

All-I've included a photo of the card for anyone curious: