Was the slower sgram cheaper? And maybe the higher clocked sdram for the faster models a cheaper option?

Or are most faster models simply older as there seem to be only sdram 3000's and 3500's. Atleast in my collection there is no 3000 or 3500(tv) sgram.

And do the sgram versions overclock higher? I've read about that a couple of times but i don't overclock my cards so i don't know.

How big is your entire collection? 28 v3's is quite a number!

havli wrote:

So the conclusion might be - there are 3-4 V3 AGP for each V3 PCI.

4 to 1 might be a reasonable number but perhaps the difference is even higher. Often I see AGP models around. As for collectors: be careful to make conclusions; most collectors try to collect one or two cards of each 'taste'. I have a few Avenger (Voodoo3) based cards including AGP models. If I see other AGP cards I won't bother acquiring them because I already have a few.

As for the V3 PCI types distribution - I believe SDRAM/SGRAM models should be 50/50.

Personally I would say that PCI models with SG are more common than SD but that's just a feeling 😀.

On the AGP front: the Voodoo3 1000 is always equipped with SGRAM as far as I know. The higher rated models (Voodoo 3 3500) always have SDRAM like meljor says.

meljor wrote:

Was the slower sgram cheaper? And maybe the higher clocked sdram for the faster models a cheaper option?

Actually, the SGRAM models are faster than the SDRAM models according to my own benchmarks.

Somewere on the web I found:
Synchronous Graphics RAM (SGRAM) is clock-synchronized RAM that is used for video memory. It is relatively low-cost video memory. It uses masked write, which enables selected data to be modified in a single operation rather as a sequence of read, update, and write operations. It also uses block write, which allows data for background or foreground image fills to be handled more efficiently. SGRAM is single-ported. Its special features are what make it a moderately fast form of video memory.

Regarding overclocking I'm not sure if there is a difference between SG and SD. I haven't extensively overclocked my Voodoo3 cards. I doubt it'll make much difference (in terms of MHz) when dealing with an 3dfx Avenger chip. General thumb is that faster memory (5.5NS or 5NS) overclocks better because chip/RAM ratio is locked with Avenger so you don't have to worry about RAM clockfrequencies.

meljor wrote:

Was the slower sgram cheaper? And maybe the higher clocked sdram for the faster models a cheaper option? […]
Show full quote

Was the slower sgram cheaper? And maybe the higher clocked sdram for the faster models a cheaper option?

Or are most faster models simply older as there seem to be only sdram 3000's and 3500's. Atleast in my collection there is no 3000 or 3500(tv) sgram.

And do the sgram versions overclock higher? I've read about that a couple of times but i don't overclock my cards so i don't know.

How big is your entire collection? 28 v3's is quite a number!

Hey Meljor, shall we add our own cards to these statistics? I already asked you in the other thread, I'd be perfectly willing to do a count on my cards 😁

Thandor wrote:

4 to 1 might be a reasonable number but perhaps the difference is even higher. Often I see AGP models around. As for collectors: […]
Show full quote

havli wrote:

So the conclusion might be - there are 3-4 V3 AGP for each V3 PCI.

4 to 1 might be a reasonable number but perhaps the difference is even higher. Often I see AGP models around. As for collectors: be careful to make conclusions; most collectors try to collect one or two cards of each 'taste'. I have a few Avenger (Voodoo3) based cards including AGP models. If I see other AGP cards I won't bother acquiring them because I already have a few.

As for the V3 PCI types distribution - I believe SDRAM/SGRAM models should be 50/50.

Personally I would say that PCI models with SG are more common than SD but that's just a feeling 😀.

meljor wrote:

Was the slower sgram cheaper? And maybe the higher clocked sdram for the faster models a cheaper option?

Actually, the SGRAM models are faster than the SDRAM models according to my own benchmarks.

Somewere on the web I found:
Synchronous Graphics RAM (SGRAM) is clock-synchronized RAM that is used for video memory. It is relatively low-cost video memory. It uses masked write, which enables selected data to be modified in a single operation rather as a sequence of read, update, and write operations. It also uses block write, which allows data for background or foreground image fills to be handled more efficiently. SGRAM is single-ported. Its special features are what make it a moderately fast form of video memory.

Regarding overclocking I'm not sure if there is a difference between SG and SD. I haven't extensively overclocked my Voodoo3 cards. I doubt it'll make much difference (in terms of MHz) when dealing with an 3dfx Avenger chip. General thumb is that faster memory (5.5NS or 5NS) overclocks better because chip/RAM ratio is locked with Avenger so you don't have to worry about RAM clockfrequencies.

I meant for example:
16mb sgram capable at 143mhz was cheaper to buy than sdram capable at 143mhz,
but sgram@166mhz was more expensive compared to sdram@166mhz and that's why they used it that way?

Or simply because all the dram cards we found are simply older and much more wide spread? Because like i said, i've never seen sgram voodoo3 3000 or 3500 cards?

meljor wrote:

Or simply because all the dram cards we found are simply older and much more wide spread? Because like i said, i've never seen sgram voodoo3 3000 or 3500 cards?

My PCI V3 3000 is SGRAM though, so they do exist

Tetrium wrote:

meljor wrote:

Or simply because all the dram cards we found are simply older and much more wide spread? Because like i said, i've never seen sgram voodoo3 3000 or 3500 cards?

My PCI V3 3000 is SGRAM though, so they do exist

picture picture picture! 🤣 Not that i don't believe it but i would really like to see if there are more differences.

EDIT: i didn't read pci, still nice and an answer to my question. But have you ever seen a 3000 agp card with sgram? You card DOES show that 166mhz cards and sgram was used.

My stack: (not as balanced as i thought)

5x 2000 pci sgram. 1x black, 4x silver heatsink
3x 2000 pci sdram all black heatsink
2x 3000 agp sdram (plus a boxed sealed one, i assume it is sdram as well but don't know, yet)
3x 3500tv agp sdram
1x 3000 powercolor green sdram

meljor wrote:

How big is your entire collection? 28 v3's is quite a number!

Not as big as I would like it to be. 🤣 Actually I have pretty much every card I wanted... with a few exceptions (V4/5 MAC and maybe some other). Perhaps in the future. 😀

12x V1, 4x Rush, 16x V2 (including Q3D 200SBi and X-24), 11x Banshee, 28x V3, 7x V4, 3x V5 (one of them defective) and non-working AAlchemy 8164. So in total 85 pieces. 😎

as for the SDRAM x SGRAM
I really have no idea why there are both types used. Very early V3 prototypes were mostly SGRAM, but SDRAM variants also exists. Same as Banshee, which is also available in both forms.
Velocity 100 supposedly use SGRAM because 2MB modules were outdated and cheap in mid-1999. Maybe it was also the only way to get 8MB and 128bit bus at the same time. Voodoo5 5000 PCI and AGP prototypes also use SGRAM exclusively. In that case however four 4MB pieces are soldered per GPU.

SGR V3 are said to overclock better, but I don't think memory type matters all that much. RAM specification (5/5.5/6/7ns) and luck is important.

-------------------
3000 and 3500 AGP are all SDRAM based, at least to my knowledge.

Here's the breakdown of my V3 cards (below line)
--------------------------------------------

AGP 2k black HS no-tv SDRAM
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=136
1x

AGP 3k white HS tv SDRAM
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=40
3x

AGP Velocity black HS SGRAM (can't tell which revision as both seem too much alike)
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=32
1x

PCI 2k white HS no-tv SGRAM
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=43 except white HS and not black as in pic
2x

PCI 2k black HS no-tv SDRAM
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=42 except with HS instead of no HS like in pic
1x

PCI 2k black HS no-tv SGRAM
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=43 except white HS and not black as in pic
2x

AGP 3k white tv? SDRAM (mounted into systems atm, can go take a look if you want to)
not sure
2x

PCI 3k white HS no-tv SGRAM
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=43 except with the 3k white heatsink instead of black small heatsink
1x

AGP ?? ?? HS missing? tv SDRAM (never tested, it appears it used to have a HS but only glue remains are left. Never tested it, got it from a box of old parts but found it interesting so I bought it anyway)
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=35 but no HS and the part left to the GPU looks different, more like this one
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=30
1x

edit: Also have 2 AGP V3 3500 (the standard ones not the Compaq ones) but these are really standard, sorry forgot
----------------------------------------
Crappy pic with PCI V3 SGRAM incoming 🤣!

havli wrote:

Not as big as I would like it to be. :lol: Actually I have pretty much every card I wanted... with a few exceptions (V4/5 MAC a […]
Show full quote

meljor wrote:

How big is your entire collection? 28 v3's is quite a number!

Not as big as I would like it to be. 🤣 Actually I have pretty much every card I wanted... with a few exceptions (V4/5 MAC and maybe some other). Perhaps in the future. 😀

12x V1, 4x Rush, 16x V2 (including Q3D 200SBi and X-24), 11x Banshee, 28x V3, 7x V4, 3x V5 (one of them defective) and non-working AAlchemy 8164. So in total 85 pieces. 😎

as for the SDRAM x SGRAM
I really have no idea why there are both types used. Very early V3 prototypes were mostly SGRAM, but SDRAM variants also exists. Same as Banshee, which is also available in both forms.
Velocity 100 supposedly use SGRAM because 2MB modules were outdated and cheap in mid-1999. Maybe it was also the only way to get 8MB and 128bit bus at the same time. Voodoo5 5000 PCI and AGP prototypes also use SGRAM exclusively. In that case however four 4MB pieces are soldered per GPU.

SGR V3 are said to overclock better, but I don't think memory type matters all that much. RAM specification (5/5.5/6/7ns) and luck is important.

-------------------
3000 and 3500 AGP are all SDRAM based, at least to my knowledge.

VERY nice collection! I hope you use some in systems?

Tetrium wrote:

Here's the breakdown of my V3 cards (below line) -------------------------------------------- […]
Show full quote

Here's the breakdown of my V3 cards (below line)
--------------------------------------------

AGP 2k black HS no-tv SDRAM
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=136
1x

AGP 3k white HS tv SDRAM
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=40
3x

AGP Velocity black HS SGRAM (can't tell which revision as both seem too much alike)
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=32
1x

PCI 2k white HS no-tv SGRAM
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=43 except white HS and not black as in pic
2x

PCI 2k black HS no-tv SDRAM
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=42 except with HS instead of no HS like in pic
1x

PCI 2k black HS no-tv SGRAM
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=43 except white HS and not black as in pic
2x

AGP 3k white tv? SDRAM (mounted into systems atm, can go take a look if you want to)
not sure
2x

PCI 3k white HS no-tv SGRAM
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=43 except with the 3k white heatsink instead of black small heatsink
1x

AGP ?? ?? HS missing? tv SDRAM (never tested, it appears it used to have a HS but only glue remains are left. Never tested it, got it from a box of old parts but found it interesting so I bought it anyway)
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=35 but no HS and the part left to the GPU looks different, more like this one
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=30
1x

edit: Also have 2 AGP V3 3500 (the standard ones not the Compaq ones) but these are really standard, sorry forgot
----------------------------------------
Crappy pic with PCI V3 SGRAM incoming 🤣!

We have about the same cards and the same amount 🤣 I bet your collection is a bit older so WHO started to drive prices up here in the netherlands? 🤣

I don't have the velocity cards, i don't know why but they just aren't that appealing to me and will not use them in my systems. I do have some rush cards that i have no real use for either but i like them anyway.

The sgram/sdram question will remain a mystery i guess, a lot of 2k pci cards have it and most agp cards don't it seems.

ok, it took very long as I had some trouble getting a good pic with the V3 and the monitor at the same time. Lighting, either the screen was too bright or the card was too dark, but I got it right after a while of messing around!

I present to you....the Voodoo 3 SGRAM PCI Meljor Special Edition! 😁

VERY nice collection! I hope you use some in systems?

Yes, one V5 system My retro rigs ,P 233MMX + V2 for DOS glide & early windows 3D games, V2 SLI in my P4 win98 system. And in the future Intel based Voodoo3 rig to play GTA 3 and Vice City. 😈

Velocity 100 is very nice minimalistic design, I like them. No practical use though, they just look great in showcase. Velocity 200 / V3 1000 is even better. 😀

@Tetrium -> classic V3 3000 PCI SGR, perfect HW. One of the few 3dfx cards I still don't have.

havli wrote:

Not as big as I would like it to be. :lol: Actually I have pretty much every card I wanted... with a few exceptions (V4/5 MAC a […]
Show full quote

meljor wrote:

How big is your entire collection? 28 v3's is quite a number!

Not as big as I would like it to be. 🤣 Actually I have pretty much every card I wanted... with a few exceptions (V4/5 MAC and maybe some other). Perhaps in the future. 😀

12x V1, 4x Rush, 16x V2 (including Q3D 200SBi and X-24), 11x Banshee, 28x V3, 7x V4, 3x V5 (one of them defective) and non-working AAlchemy 8164. So in total 85 pieces. 😎

as for the SDRAM x SGRAM
I really have no idea why there are both types used. Very early V3 prototypes were mostly SGRAM, but SDRAM variants also exists. Same as Banshee, which is also available in both forms.
Velocity 100 supposedly use SGRAM because 2MB modules were outdated and cheap in mid-1999. Maybe it was also the only way to get 8MB and 128bit bus at the same time. Voodoo5 5000 PCI and AGP prototypes also use SGRAM exclusively. In that case however four 4MB pieces are soldered per GPU.

SGR V3 are said to overclock better, but I don't think memory type matters all that much. RAM specification (5/5.5/6/7ns) and luck is important.

-------------------
3000 and 3500 AGP are all SDRAM based, at least to my knowledge.

I have 1 V5 and 2 V4 cards, all of them AGP. Even years ago these were already difficult to find and almost impossible to find for a good price.
The remainder of my 3DFX collection is all V2 (most are 12MB I think) and V1 (all 4MB ones, most of mine are made by Diamond I think) and 2 Banshees.
That's it basically.

Btw, if you need any more info about any of my cards (or pics perhaps), feel free to ask and I'll dig em out again 😀
(disclaimer: pics are mobile quality so don't expect detailed high-quality pics, but PCB layouts seem to be viewable this way 😁)

meljor wrote:

We have about the same cards and the same amount :lol: I bet your collection is a bit older so WHO started to drive prices up […]
Show full quote

Tetrium wrote:

Here's the breakdown of my V3 cards (below line) -------------------------------------------- […]
Show full quote

Here's the breakdown of my V3 cards (below line)
--------------------------------------------

AGP 2k black HS no-tv SDRAM
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=136
1x

AGP 3k white HS tv SDRAM
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=40
3x

AGP Velocity black HS SGRAM (can't tell which revision as both seem too much alike)
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=32
1x

PCI 2k white HS no-tv SGRAM
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=43 except white HS and not black as in pic
2x

PCI 2k black HS no-tv SDRAM
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=42 except with HS instead of no HS like in pic
1x

PCI 2k black HS no-tv SGRAM
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=43 except white HS and not black as in pic
2x

AGP 3k white tv? SDRAM (mounted into systems atm, can go take a look if you want to)
not sure
2x

PCI 3k white HS no-tv SGRAM
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=43 except with the 3k white heatsink instead of black small heatsink
1x

AGP ?? ?? HS missing? tv SDRAM (never tested, it appears it used to have a HS but only glue remains are left. Never tested it, got it from a box of old parts but found it interesting so I bought it anyway)
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=35 but no HS and the part left to the GPU looks different, more like this one
http://hw-museum.cz/view-vga.php?vgaID=30
1x

edit: Also have 2 AGP V3 3500 (the standard ones not the Compaq ones) but these are really standard, sorry forgot
----------------------------------------
Crappy pic with PCI V3 SGRAM incoming 🤣!

We have about the same cards and the same amount 🤣 I bet your collection is a bit older so WHO started to drive prices up here in the netherlands? 🤣

I don't have the velocity cards, i don't know why but they just aren't that appealing to me and will not use them in my systems. I do have some rush cards that i have no real use for either but i like them anyway.

The sgram/sdram question will remain a mystery i guess, a lot of 2k pci cards have it and most agp cards don't it seems.

True! 🤣

Correct, I think the only V3 I got in recent years is that semi-mystery card with it's heatsink missing (I gave a description of it in previous reply)
I dunno 😜 I got most of them when nobody wanted them, I think I actually got lots of them for postage only 😁

A few I might've gotten from systems I dismantled and some from flea markets or thrift stores. I've barely bought any the last few years as prices were going up and I kinda already had all I would practically ever need 😀 (and I had other things to spend my money on)

I have just the single Velocity, but none of the Rush ones. They just never crossed my path I guess, but as you already mentioned, their use is fairly limited anyway.

Tetrium wrote:

ok, it took very long as I had some trouble getting a good pic with the V3 and the monitor at the same time. Lighting, either the screen was too bright or the card was too dark, but I got it right after a while of messing around!

I present to you....the Voodoo 3 SGRAM PCI Meljor Special Edition! 😁

Voodoo 3 PCI SGRAM Meljor Special Edition.jpg

Thank you!

@ havli:

Very nice, these cards need to be used. Most of my favorite old games have glide support so i have voodoo's in every build i do. The most important ones are in my sig.
I could do with one or 2 glide systems but where's the fun in that 🤣

havli wrote:

Yes, one V5 system My retro rigs ,P 233MMX + V2 for DOS glide & early windows 3D games, V2 SLI in my P4 win98 system. And in the […]
Show full quote

VERY nice collection! I hope you use some in systems?

Yes, one V5 system My retro rigs ,P 233MMX + V2 for DOS glide & early windows 3D games, V2 SLI in my P4 win98 system. And in the future Intel based Voodoo3 rig to play GTA 3 and Vice City. 😈

Velocity 100 is very nice minimalistic design, I like them. No practical use though, they just look great in showcase. Velocity 200 / V3 1000 is even better. 😀

@Tetrium -> classic V3 3000 PCI SGR, perfect HW. One of the few 3dfx cards I still don't have.

Lol, you and Meljor already have every one of them except for just 1 or 2.
This single V3 PCI card is actually the fastest 3DFX I have in PCI format, I'm keeping it, definitely! 😁

Is this specific V3 so hard to find btw? I do remember it was already pretty hard to find any PCI V3s, let alone PCI V3 3000s (I was starting to wonder if these even existed tbh). If so, I might put it in my guarded safe along with my Cyrix 5x86 133, my 2.88 floppy gear and my goose that lays golden eggs but hasn't laid one for years now 🤣

Tetrium wrote:

Is this specific V3 so hard to find btw?

I have one as well. Still remember when I bought it in year 2000 the price was too close to GeForce, if it was the same elsewhere then no wonder there are not many.

Putas wrote:

Tetrium wrote:

Is this specific V3 so hard to find btw?

I have one as well. Still remember when I bought it in year 2000 the price was too close to GeForce, if it was the same elsewhere then no wonder there are not many.

I think this could very well be the case.

I do remember that back in the day, a friend of mine was still running a Pentium 1 MMX on a non-AGP board (he overclocked the CPU to get a bit of extra performance) and his final upgrade included a PCI V3. Can't remember whether it was a 2000 or 3000, he threw everything out without asking me first 😢
As I think that at that time P3 was already long out and virtually all boards had AGP by then, most V3s sold would likely be AGP and obviously the 2000 would've been cheaper and enough of an upgrade to prefer it to the 3000.

For some reason I find the V3 3000s with SGRAM the visually most pleasing, the 2000 HS looks kinda puny and cheap (like a northbridge HS) and I find SGRAM graphics cards visually more pleasing than SDRAM graphics cards. For example, the Diamond Rendition 2100 I like a lot and the way it looks has a lot to do with it.

Btw Putas, feel free to add your V3 collection stats to this thread, pics are welcome as well of course 😁

I am not that kind of collector who is after multiple cards with same chip. But I have several cards powered by Voodoo3- one Velocity 100, one V3 2000 SDR, one V3 3000 PCI SGR, V3 3000 SDR and two Compaq V3 3500 (they cost me dearly). Right now I have no adequate camera, so no pictures.
Regarding aesthetics of the V3 PCI, I can't say I like it despite the emotional attachment. Heatsink is glued sideways so much it even did not fit some motherboard, and the two unused memory positions are asking me if something is missing. That big transistor near dsub output is changing color of the board by its heat. Large PCB and 5.5 ns memory lends itself for high overclocking, but the Compaq PCB looks to me much better with heatspreader points and tightly screwed heatsink.

Putas wrote:

I am not that kind of collector who is after multiple cards with same chip. But I have several cards powered by Voodoo3- one Velocity 100, one V3 2000 SDR, one V3 3000 PCI SGR, V3 3000 SDR and two Compaq V3 3500 (they cost me dearly). Right now I have no adequate camera, so no pictures.

I heard about these Compaq V3s, but also some members having troubles with them.
Are yours alright?

Putas wrote:

Regarding aesthetics of the V3 PCI, I can't say I like it despite the emotional attachment. Heatsink is glued sideways so much it even did not fit some motherboard, and the two unused memory positions are asking me if something is missing. That big transistor near dsub output is changing color of the board by its heat. Large PCB and 5.5 ns memory lends itself for high overclocking, but the Compaq PCB looks to me much better with heatspreader points and tightly screwed heatsink.

Could perhaps be an interesting topic by itself 😁