VOGONS


First post, by SRQ

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... So, I'm just gonna assume yes- why not.
In any case- this machine is museum quality and came with original disks and accessories. Paid 50 bucks and holy crap am I happy. Oddly it has been downgraded to an ATi Rage 3D pro with a TV-Tuner which was apparently an "AV" package. Sure sucks to not have the original Rage 128

So, questions:
I put in a Voodoo 2, it would not work. Quake 2 is what I used for testing and no textures showed up. Finding drivers and stuff is confusing and weird so I just left it out.
Is putting in a soundblaster worth the effort it would take?
Is there any benefit to using the original OS 8.6 over 9.22? No OSX, this is a slowass vintage machine I'm not going to bother.

Reply 1 of 24, by Dominus

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I think Voodoos need a special firmware for Macs. AFAIK yu could easily flash it with one.

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Reply 3 of 24, by Tetrium

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SRQ wrote:

I heard that too, but I can't find any source for doing it with a V2.

Do V2s even have a BIOS?

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Reply 4 of 24, by psychz

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Actually if you're running on OS9, don't even think about putting a SoundBlaster in there; will make for system instabilities and a loooooong and slooooooow boot-up with no noticeable gain!!! The drivers are VERY buggy. Don't think the V2s need bios flashing or something like that btw...

Stojke wrote:

Its not like components found in trash after 20 years in rain dont still work flawlessly.

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Reply 5 of 24, by AnacreonZA

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You shouldn't need to reflash a Voodoo 2 to get it to work, Voodoo 3s do need to be flashed, but Voodoo 2s shouldn't as they aren't used as the primary video card in the system. LGR has a video on Youtube where he runs games in an old Mac with an unmodified Voodoo 2 card. I've never done it myself though as I do not have a Voodoo 2 card.

You will need to sort out the drivers though - some games also have different executables depending on which API is used OpenGL/RAVE/Quickdraw 3D etc. I seem to remember my copy of Quake 2 Mac had drivers included on the CD-ROM so try there first. I have a G3 B&W 350MHz with the Rage 128 and it plays Q2 pretty well. In fact that video card even made Q2 playable on my old 7300 with a 604e CPU.

Reply 6 of 24, by Dominus

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Yeah, most likely confused it with the "newer" Voodoos 😉

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Reply 7 of 24, by psychz

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The B&W G3 is pci only, isn't it?

Stojke wrote:

Its not like components found in trash after 20 years in rain dont still work flawlessly.

:: chemical reaction :: athens in love || reality is absent || spectrality || meteoron || the lie you believe

Reply 8 of 24, by Dropcik

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Yes, Mac stuff is sort of hard to find on here. I'm pretty familiar with PPC mac systems because I grew up with them. I do not recommend a voodoo card for a mac. Its a terrible headache for such a small amount of game it works with. Driver and glide/opengl support sucks for when using a voodoo. Oh, and no OSX support. I had a flashed voodoo 3 3000 and I would always have problems with older 256 color games and missing textures. It was super fast in what ever it worked in like quake 1 and 4x4 evo. I would recommend flashing a radeon 9200 PCI. http://themacelite.wikidot.com/start <= A good site to start for flashing any mac card. I flashed my radeon 9700 to mac and used it for awhile in a powermac g4 800mhz. Never quite reached it potential, A card like that needs a high end G4 or G5. There is (was) a large mac overclock community that has tons of information on overclocking old macs, If that's your thing.

Ayy LMAO

Reply 10 of 24, by Sedrosken

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This may or may not be relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUlCkH5v938 A video by Lazy Game Reviews detailing how he got a PCI Voodoo2 to work in a older PPC Mac.

Supposedly he put it in, hooked up the passthrough, and it just worked provided he used some special glidelib made shortly before 3Dfx went bankrupt or other.

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Reply 12 of 24, by AnacreonZA

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Sedrosken wrote:

This may or may not be relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUlCkH5v938 A video by Lazy Game Reviews detailing how he got a PCI Voodoo2 to work in a older PPC Mac.

Supposedly he put it in, hooked up the passthrough, and it just worked provided he used some special glidelib made shortly before 3Dfx went bankrupt or other.

Yes - that's the video I was talking about. Yeah I also flashed my Voodoo 3 2000 at one point but it wasn't really worth it in the long run so I flashed it back and now use that card in my Socket 7 rig. There were some decent DOS/Windows to Mac ports in those OS8/9 days because the one advantage those old Macs has was that they often had CPU power to spare - I liked how well the Descent games worked on Mac and Warcraft, Diablo and Starcraft all work well too. I also loved Myth: The Fallen Lords and Myth 2: Soulblighter. I never really got into Marathon or its sequel. The open source ports of the 3D ID stuff was also very good and there's an OS9 open source port of Heretic around that is very good too. Sadly the official Doom and Doom 2 ports don't allow you to use the same keymaps as the DOS version but they look and sound great.

I recently played the System Shock port for Mac OS 9 and it's pretty well done. Definitely runs faster on my PPC Macs than the 486 I originally ran it on - although even my oldest PPC machine would have cost many times as much as my 486 did and came out quite a bit later. Fallout and Fallout 2 also both seem to work well.

Apart from that I'd recommend the standard Myst and Riven stuff if you are into adventure games. Many of the later Sierra games also got fairly reasonable ports - although the ports of the AGI games seem to have been written with the original Macs in mind and tend to crash on anything later than System 7 with a colour display. I was surprised to find that Myst is actually very playable on my Mac IIsi with a SCSI external CD-ROM (68030). There's actually not much that is playable on that Mac.

There are also some very nice Amiga ports and some of them have upgraded graphics - if I'm not mistaken Flashback on Mac is 640x480 and looks great and so does Out Of This World/Another World. Blackthorne is another decent game on there. The Prince Of Persia port looks quite different to the DOS/Amiga versions and has redrawn 640x480 graphics - I didn't take to it though because the animation timing seems a little off.

I don't see that much difference between OS8 and OS9 to be honest. The updates included in OS9 didn't really relate much to gaming so it would come down to how much memory the newer OS uses vs the older one although G3 machines used standard PC-style DIMMs so upgrades will be cheap. The earlier versions of OS 8 still had some 680X0 code in them (8.1 is the last version to work on 68040) but supposedly all of that was eliminated by the time 8.6 came out. Personally I just load 9.2.2 on my G3 and forget about it.

Some games might require you to install GameSprockets which was a kind of DirectX-style API to standardise input and sound output if I remember correctly.

Reply 13 of 24, by CapnCrunch53

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I have a Voodoo2 working successfully in a G3 B&W, alongside the stock Rage128GL. It has been awhile since I've used the machine, but I believe all I did (following LGR's video which was linked above) was download the Mac OS 8.x driver package on this page: http://www.falconfly.de/voodoo2.htm and drop the extensions into the extensions folder.

Unfortunately, the only 3DFX-capable game for Mac that I had at the time was Diablo II, but that game ran very well with the card.

I went with OS 8.6 because that's what LGR used, and what the driver officially supports, so I can't comment whether it would work as easily in OS9. I've heard opinions that OS9 is bloated compared to OS8, as well as claims that it is less stable, so you may be inclined to stick with OS8 for those reasons.

If you have any more questions I could dig the machine out of my basement and try to answer them; I remember the biggest problem I had at the time wasn't drivers for the card, but finding an OS8-compatible version of Stuffit expander 🤣. It was also some of my very first experience with Classic OS (which I still don't know my way around very well at all), so I was fumbling through most of it.

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Reply 14 of 24, by SRQ

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CapnCrunch53 wrote:
I have a Voodoo2 working successfully in a G3 B&W, alongside the stock Rage128GL. It has been awhile since I've used the machine […]
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I have a Voodoo2 working successfully in a G3 B&W, alongside the stock Rage128GL. It has been awhile since I've used the machine, but I believe all I did (following LGR's video which was linked above) was download the Mac OS 8.x driver package on this page: http://www.falconfly.de/voodoo2.htm and drop the extensions into the extensions folder.

Unfortunately, the only 3DFX-capable game for Mac that I had at the time was Diablo II, but that game ran very well with the card.

I went with OS 8.6 because that's what LGR used, and what the driver officially supports, so I can't comment whether it would work as easily in OS9. I've heard opinions that OS9 is bloated compared to OS8, as well as claims that it is less stable, so you may be inclined to stick with OS8 for those reasons.

If you have any more questions I could dig the machine out of my basement and try to answer them; I remember the biggest problem I had at the time wasn't drivers for the card, but finding an OS8-compatible version of Stuffit expander 🤣. It was also some of my very first experience with Classic OS (which I still don't know my way around very well at all), so I was fumbling through most of it.

Quake 2 is now not working at all- just a white screen. This is perplexing me.
When I was on OS 8.6 it would work at all, maybe I just need a fresh install.

Reply 15 of 24, by idspispopd

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It should also be possible to cross-flash a PC Rage 128 to Mac, but then PCI Rage 128 cards are much less common than AGP ones.

Reply 16 of 24, by Dropcik

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idspispopd wrote:

It should also be possible to cross-flash a PC Rage 128 to Mac, but then PCI Rage 128 cards are much less common than AGP ones.

I think the B&W rage 128 PCI with daughter board (8-16mb?) goes for $10-$15 on ebay. The latest B&W G3 and yikes G4 came with them, The older revisions have a slower clock speed and less ram.

http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/3dfx-voodoo-d … itiesflash-roms If i remember this contains the beta drivers from 10-13 and some other useful utilities.

Ayy LMAO

Reply 17 of 24, by SRQ

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Fresh install of 8.6 doesn't work either. Either this version of Quake 2 is broken (I can't find the original retail disk, cough), or something weird is going on.

Someone local says they have a rage 128 but they're being weird with their messages. I hope they do.

Reply 18 of 24, by SRQ

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It worked all along Quake 2 just didn't like the OpenGL extension!
I am exploding.

Also what the hell why don't any of these opengl updates work on 8.6? It says OS8 is supported and then demands OS9.

Reply 19 of 24, by brostenen

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Voodoo2 in some sort of power mac...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUlCkH5v938

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Those cakes make you sick....

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