Jinxter wrote on 2021-10-17, 18:19:

I have just found myself an EuroPC II. It has 768KB of RAM.
Does anybody know hos to use this 128KB of extra EMS? - The startup ram checker counts it as EMS.

Officially the extra 128KB can be used as disk cache (smartdrive) or a ram drive, drivers can be found on EuroPCII and EuroXT DOS disks.
In the manual there is no mention of other uses for the extra RAM but since there is a driver I assume software that can use EMS such as Lotus 1-2-3 and Turbo Pascal should be able to make use of it -never confirmed this though.

About using it to load DOS stuff in it, unless I'm terribly wrong loading dos high has nothing to do with it and you need at least a 286 to accomplish it.

There is a special driver called "euroems.drv".

dr.zeissler wrote on 2021-10-17, 20:30:

There is a special driver called "euroems.drv".

Thanks for the tips and the file.
I used the driver like this: DEVICE=EURO_EMS.DRV 128 /F - The 128 is for the amount of EMS memory and the F is for fast (found that on a Russian forum)
I then get 128KB of Expanded memory as you can see here from Norton SI.
But the cost is 64KB less Conventional memory. - Probably for paging.

I don't need smartdrv - since i am using XT-IDE / CF.

I tried using DOSMAX for move part of DOS to UMB, but DOSMAX could not use the extra memory.
4DOS uses the Expanded memory - instead of swapping to disk it uses 112KB of the EMS.- But i don't see any advantage, especially when euro_ems.drv uses 64KB conventional memory.

It there any other ways of using this 128KB of memory in DOS? - I Don't need cache or ramdrive.

theoryboy wrote on 2021-10-17, 19:20:

I think USE!UMBS and DOSMAX might suit you here. USE!UMBS to enable the high mem and dosmax to move command.com and others to high mem to free up conventional mem. Clearmem may be needed to clear memory blocks first.

Thank for the suggestion. I have just tried it. The problem is that i don't have the memory address for the 128KB Expanded memory.
When using TEST!UMB.EXE it only suggest the CGA RAM address.
Using CHECKIT to find memory addresses, I cannot now where the 128KB memory area is.

I tried using C200h to F000h - did not work.
BC00h to C000h works - but only gives me 16Kb - better than notting 😀

Ah , yea 🙁 I saw this too with the Tandy 768K, the extra memory was not usable by these means either. Sorry.

I have done some more testing on different methods to use memory over 640Kb.
The closes i got was by combining EURO_EMS.DRV with UMBEMS.SYS.
It then uses all the EMS provided by EURO_EMS.DRV for UMB. But boot could not load 4DOS. If this method had worked we could still loose 64Kb of conventional memory by potential getting 128KB of UMB. Not sure that is a good trade.

To summarise: Use EURO_EMS.DRV to get EMS that can be used by RAMDRIVER, SMARTDRV and PC-CACHE. It can also be used for programs that support Expanded memory - like 4DOS. Downside is that EURO_EMS.DRV uses 64Kbit of conventional memory.

UMB.SYS and other tools to utilise memory between 640 and 1MB dont work with the 128Kb of ram on the Euro PC II. If we new the memory address of this ram, maybe we could do something. But it guess this is not easy. By looking at the behaviour on EURO_EMS.DRV we now that EURO_EMS.DRV uses 64Kb of conventional memory to use the ekstra 128Kb. So this suggest that the ekstra ram is located over 1MB.

Case closed?

I got a new Euro PC II, and i made a video about it. Take a look. https://youtu.be/BSmUAKFHORs

I did some more testing on the EURO_EMS driver.
So to recap. The drivers enables the extra 128KB ram on the EuroPC2. When using the driver we are told (by the driver) that it is a EMS driver for RAMDRIVE, SMARTDRV and PC-CACHE V1.1

Using it with USE!UMBS to make the EMS memory into useful UMB memory does not work. USE!UMB says it has found and is using the 128KB of memory, but when loading DOS into UMB it crashes.
TESTUMB (come with USE!UMBS) says it cannot find free UMB memory - both with and without the EURO_EMS Driver.

I also tried using QRAM 2.02 (later versions is called QEMM). QRam find the EMS memory after EURO_EMS driver is installed. But unable to load programs into UMB.

But i learned one thing. A Utility called EMSINFO - comes in package called eemram21.zip the Euro_EMS driver identifies the extra ram as LIM 3.x.

So we are back to start. The extra memory can be used for RAMDRIVE, SMARTDRV and PC-CACHE V1.1 and 4DOS (tried with 4.02). When starting 4DOS it confirms that 112K of EMS is used for swapping. Is it worth it? The EURO_EMS driver uses 64K of Conventional Memory, and we gain 128K EMS, and 4DOS 4.02 can use 112K. That gives us 16K for other programs like RAMDRIVE or PC-CACHE - or even maybe other programs that support LIM 3.2 (I belive the Euro_EMS drivers is LIM 3.2 based on the EMSINFO util, and the fact that 4DOS only supports LIM 3.2 or higher).

This is what 4DOS manual says about 4DOS Swapping : "4DOS will perform most quickly if the transient portion is swapped to the fastest memory or device available." and "4DOS will swap to EMS expanded memory if it is available. You must have expanded memory and an EMS memory manager (version 3.2 or later) for this option."

I have decided to use the extra memory for 4DOS - even if i get 64K less conventional memory. Not many 8088 programs need more than the 574K i have available after running the EMS driver, 4DOS and more.

I hope someone out there will find this information useful, and even carry my investigation even further. Maybe someday we can have 768K conventional memory!
BTW: I was inspired by this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcc_D7q9bQs

Jinxter wrote on 2022-01-07, 17:43:

I also tried using QRAM 2.02 (later versions is called QEMM).

That's not completely accurate.

It's true: Both QRAM and QEMM are memory management products by Quarterdeck. Both QRAM and QEMM can help you optimize your conventional memory by moving stuff into UMBs. Both QRAM and QEMM ship with DOS utilities somehow related to memory management.

But QEMM is a 386 virtual machine monitor, including UMB and EMS emulation, whereas QRAM "just" is a driver to make already present UMBs usable by DOS, not unlike USE!UMBS.

I did a new attempt on getting the mouse/joystick port to work - this time on my new EuroPC2.

First the schematics for EuroPC 1 and EuroPC 2 is attached. The EuroPC 2 calls it the MOUSE/DIGJOY/ANAJOY. The different being that the EuroPC2 using the words Digital and Analog Joystick. Maybe the EuroPC1 has the same specs, but that is not clear.

First the mouse. I tried connecting different Amiga mice because they have the pinout that fit the schematics. First i enable mouse in BIOS/Setup. Mouse.sys 6.14Z from Microsoft finds the mouse. When i move the mouse, the cursor is all over the place. So i think the Amiga mouse is the correct type og mouse, but i probably need a EuroPC mouse driver. CTMouse does not find the mopuse. If you have a driver that works with the EuroPC, please send me the link.

The Joystick. First i enable joystick in the BIOS/Setup. Then i try with an Atari joystick in several games. None of the games i tried recognise the joystick. And nothing happends. i the game PAKU PAKU the game ran superslow when the joystick was attached. When unplugging the joystick the game ran in normal speed.

Have anybody managed to get a mouse or a analog or digital joystick to work on the EuroPC 1 or 2?
I need to use this port to the mouse since my RS232 is now used for MIDI output.

Jinxter wrote on 2022-01-24, 20:26:

I did a new attempt on getting the mouse/joystick port to work - this time on my new EuroPC2.

I find an interesting article about bus mouse: https://deskthority.net/wiki/Bus_mouse#Microsoft_InPort
The article has a diagram showing the pinouts for the different type og BUS mouse.
It looks like the Amstrad and Schneider EuroPC are using the same pinout. This explaines why the Amiga mouse don't work.
I have an Amstrad mouse for my 1640, but this is of course a male plug, instead of the female plug that everybody else uses on BUS mouse.

Then i tried my Atari ST mouse. And that worked just fine! - i used Microsoft Mouse.sys version 6.14Z.

Only thing left now is to get the Joystick to work - preferably a digital Atari style joystick.

In this German training manual it states that the Joystick port in EuroPC 1 is Digital.

It also states the joystick 1 is reached at address 258h.
If i am not mistaken the analog PC Joystick port is address 201h. - Read more at: https://www.epanorama.net/documents/joystick/ … c_joystick.html

So i guess the game needs support for the Joystick at 258h to work.

Jinxter wrote on 2022-01-24, 21:28:

In this German training manual it states that the Joystick port in EuroPC 1 is Digital. […]
Show full quote

In this German training manual it states that the Joystick port in EuroPC 1 is Digital.

It also states the joystick 1 is reached at address 258h.
If i am not mistaken the analog PC Joystick port is address 201h. - Read more at: https://www.epanorama.net/documents/joystick/ … c_joystick.html

So i guess the game needs support for the Joystick at 258h to work.

Exactly. The EuroPC 1 joystick interface is entirely different from the IBM PC joystick interface: You need different joysticks (digital joysticks instead of analog joysticks), and you need software that supports digital joysticks. It's not just that the address is different, also the joystick readout method is different. You read standard IBM PC analog joysticks by using software to time capacitor charge via two variable resistors that represents the X/Y coordinates, whereas digital joysticks can be read by a single port read instruction.

I browsed trough the German training manual and some some interesting tips.

CTRL-ALT-ESC = Setup
CTRL-ALT-F1 = Switch to ASCII character set? - Can someone explain this?
CTRL-ALT-F2 = Back to the default character set
CTRL-ALT-Plus/Minus = Speed up/down.
CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE=Hard Reset
CTRL-ALT-4/6 = Something about the Floppy steprate?

I have an old setup.exe from 09.06.1988 but this does not show all the settings i get by pressing CTRL-ALT-ESC.
Do anybody has newer version og setup.exe?

tereg wrote on 2018-07-31, 14:41:

I resolve it in my way
Also - there is my video how to add composite mode and get csync signal to 2nd pin of cga
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-E7Qh1hnuM&feature=youtu.be

I was looking trough old messages in this thread. I had almost forgot the tereg made a composite mod for his Euro XT, witch if i am not mistakene has the same video chip as the EuroPC and EuroPC 2.
Has anyone (except tereg) tried this mod?

I just won a Schneider Euro PC in an auction. It’s missing the PSU and according to the description doesn’t power on. The seller suspects the on/off switch. He’s also tested the socketed chips to be working in another Euro PC. I’m looking forward to have a try at it. I have a suitable Mean Well PSU but I’d need to make a cable for it.

What games do support the EuroPC-1 Joystick? I don't know one. I bought the Schneider Joystick card back then.

RetroBard wrote on 2022-02-14, 23:20:

I just won a Schneider Euro PC in an auction. It’s missing the PSU and according to the description doesn’t power on. The seller suspects the on/off switch. He’s also tested the socketed chips to be working in another Euro PC. I’m looking forward to have a try at it. I have a suitable Mean Well PSU but I’d need to make a cable for it.

101 times out of 100 it's battery damage and not the switch, I hope you've seen photos from the battery area and your euro pc is the exception.

konc wrote on 2022-02-15, 11:33:

RetroBard wrote on 2022-02-14, 23:20:

I just won a Schneider Euro PC in an auction. It’s missing the PSU and according to the description doesn’t power on. The seller suspects the on/off switch. He’s also tested the socketed chips to be working in another Euro PC. I’m looking forward to have a try at it. I have a suitable Mean Well PSU but I’d need to make a cable for it.

101 times out of 100 it's battery damage and not the switch, I hope you've seen photos from the battery area and your euro pc is the exception.

Battery’s been removed. Based on the pictures, the battery damage doesn’t look at least very excessive. The resolution isn’t good enough to tell for sure. At least the traces by the battery area appear all right. One via might be a bit suspectible.

Edit: take that back. There’s definitely one eaten trace on the side of the battery where there’s only one leg.

Here’s a closeup of the battery area.