emosun wrote:

The HD 4770 was the last/fastest agp card to be released from ATi

When I had an old 2001 gateway it had an x1650 in it which was a bridged card and it worked fine.

The Radeon HD4770 AGP was vaporware.

Radeon HD3850 and HD4670 are the fastest bridged AGP cards, it's not easy to to tell which is faster.

Skyscraper wrote:

emosun wrote:

The HD 4770 was the last/fastest agp card to be released from ATi

When I had an old 2001 gateway it had an x1650 in it which was a bridged card and it worked fine.

The Radeon HD4770 AGP was vaporware.

Radeon HD3850 and HD4670 are the fastest bridged AGP cards, it's not easy to to tell which is faster.

Ah I knew it was something in the 4000 series. I think the 3850 would edge out the 4670 definitely , although in todays games and apps they'd be pretty much the same as you said.

emosun wrote:

Ah I knew it was something in the 4000 series. I think the 3850 would edge out the 4670 definitely , although in todays games and apps they'd be pretty much the same as you said.

Here's some results of 4670 PCIe vs. 3850 PCIe, as you can see the 4670 often outruns the 3850 and sometimes even the 3870.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2616/6

4670 is better because it uses a better balanced chip (8:32:320 vs. 16:16:320 [ROP:TMU:SP]).
16 TMU's are just not enough to keep all SP's busy in 3850/3870, and additional 8 ROPs (together with 2x memory bus width) are helpfull only in higher AA/resolution cases (IF TMU's can keep up).

Last but not least :
4670 is a lot better in power consumption department than 3850 (and U can't get a 3870 with AGP port).

The problem is that both the 4650 and 4670 AGP usually came with low clocked DDR2 memory and the cards are always bandwidth starved. Regular 3850 has ~55GB/s, where as 4650 and 4670 cards usually had around 25GB/s, easily overclockable to at least 32GB/s however. I picked up a 4650 AGP just a few days ago and was having fun with it the last few days.

F2bnp wrote:

The problem is that both the 4650 and 4670 AGP usually came with low clocked DDR2 memory and the cards are always bandwidth starved. Regular 3850 has ~55GB/s, where as 4650 and 4670 cards usually had around 25GB/s, easily overclockable to at least 32GB/s however. I picked up a 4650 AGP just a few days ago and was having fun with it the last few days.

Well I had an HD4670 AGP with DDR3, all HD4670's should have DDR3, while the HD4650 should have DDR2.

The only time an HD3850 will beat an HD4670 is at high resolution when your bandwith starved, at that point the 3850 can walk away from the 4670. But who is going to run 1200p with an AGP rig today

emosun wrote:

The HD 4770 was the last/fastest agp card to be released from ATi

The 4670 AGP was the last. Second to last is the 3850 AGP. Although the 3850 is a bit faster in some cases. These cards are getting rare and will probably be very hard to find or expensive in five years. I have a both and they are terrible at playing videos. Back in the box they went and forgotten about. For AGP its not worth it to put a bridged AGP card in an older system these days. Unless your building a retro machine then get a 6800 or X850. If you want an XP machine get an Intel Core setup and go with a PCIE solution. Its a whole lot better. These bridged cards were meant to squeeze some life out of a socket 478 rig or such a few years ago so current titles could be played. It's a rip off if you buy a bridged AGP card these days.

I have a 3850 on a P4/3000 HT. It has shocked me a few times with how powerful it is. It runs this, for example. I've never had any issues with the bridge chip once I got the drivers up & running.

RatCatcher wrote:

For AGP its not worth it to put a bridged AGP card in an older system these days. Unless your building a retro machine then get a 6800 or X850. If you want an XP machine get an Intel Core setup and go with a PCIE solution.

^^ Totally agree with you!

There will always be a small niche looking for "ultimate" builds and matching up a P4 3.4 EE with a high powered Radeon, which is interesting, but very expensive and not practical. I've been on the lookout for some high powered AGP cards and the only bargain I was able to score was a X1950Pro, still a great card, but in OpenGL Nvidia is actually faster anyway 😀

I'd love to get a 7800 GS though.

PhilsComputerLab wrote:

I'd love to get a 7800 GS though.

I have a 7800 GS AGP card. I lucked out and found one cheap locally. It was my initial choice for my Tualatin build but unfortunately it uses a bridge chip and my VIA chipset hated it. After tinkering with BIOS options I eventually got it to actually run programs without freezing up but the graphics were an unplayable mess.

RatCatcher wrote:

emosun wrote:

The HD 4770 was the last/fastest agp card to be released from ATi

The 4670 AGP was the last. Second to last is the 3850 AGP. Although the 3850 is a bit faster in some cases. These cards are getting rare and will probably be very hard to find or expensive in five years. I have a both and they are terrible at playing videos. Back in the box they went and forgotten about. For AGP its not worth it to put a bridged AGP card in an older system these days. Unless your building a retro machine then get a 6800 or X850. If you want an XP machine get an Intel Core setup and go with a PCIE solution. Its a whole lot better. These bridged cards were meant to squeeze some life out of a socket 478 rig or such a few years ago so current titles could be played. It's a rip off if you buy a bridged AGP card these days.

Nah the x1950pro/HD3850/HD4650/HD4670 and 7800GS/7900GS/7950GT AGP cards where made for people who bought a 939 AGP system, because honestly it was feasable to upgrade to a dual core and then you needed a video card. I think the whole reason that ended with the HD4670 was no AGP based systems could really drive anything similar to an 8800GTX/HD4850 level. The X2 6400 struggled to feed them, and only really a Core 2 Duo @ 3ghz or better was useful, and offically no AGP chipset supported Core2.

candle_86 wrote:

Nah the x1950pro/HD3850/HD4650/HD4670 and 7800GS/7900GS/7950GT AGP cards where made for people who bought a 939 AGP system, because honestly it was feasable to upgrade to a dual core and then you needed a video card. I think the whole reason that ended with the HD4670 was no AGP based systems could really drive anything similar to an 8800GTX/HD4850 level. The X2 6400 struggled to feed them, and only really a Core 2 Duo @ 3ghz or better was useful, and offically no AGP chipset supported Core2.

Yeah... wonna bet on that 😉 ?

😜

Some i865 boards also support Core2, even 45nm models.

VIA chipset, nice!

I do have one 775 board with 865 chipset and AGP slot.

Did Intel themselves have such boards? I'm just wondering how "official" 775 boards with 865 chipsets are.

With AMD, PCIe came a bit later and 939 AGP boards are quite common.

agent_x007 wrote:

Yeah... wonna bet on that ;) ? […]
Show full quote

candle_86 wrote:

Nah the x1950pro/HD3850/HD4650/HD4670 and 7800GS/7900GS/7950GT AGP cards where made for people who bought a 939 AGP system, because honestly it was feasable to upgrade to a dual core and then you needed a video card. I think the whole reason that ended with the HD4670 was no AGP based systems could really drive anything similar to an 8800GTX/HD4850 level. The X2 6400 struggled to feed them, and only really a Core 2 Duo @ 3ghz or better was useful, and offically no AGP chipset supported Core2.

Yeah... wonna bet on that 😉 ?

3850 agent_x007.png

4670 agent_x007.png

😜

I said offically support. Read what VIA and Intel have to say about their AGP chipsets and Core2. Now board makers enabled unoffical support by putting in the right microcode, and voltage equipment but that doesn't mean offical support 🤣.

On the other hand wonder how a TNT2 will preform with a 4ghz Core 2 🤣

Intel never supported the 865 or 875 offically with 65nm Pentium 4/Pentium D (all) processors. 775 intel intended to be used only with the 915 chipset or better.

Well, if MB maker says it supports Core 2 Duo's in official channels (ie. their website : LINK), I think it should be counted as "official support" ("supports" = works with it, and "official" = U will see info about it in public place [like product website]).

It may be true that chipset maker may say it "wasn't designed to support...", but I think, the last call is on MB manufacturer side here.
Basicly : It's their job (ie. ASUS/Gigabyte/MSI/EVGA/ASRock), to have a working and reliable product.
They must know better than anyone (even chipset designer) - what is and, what is not possible with it.

I'm leaning more towards candle_86 view on this. I think Intel drew the line with 865/875 for 478 AGP and 915/925 for 775 with PCIe.

But it's cool that there are these boards that bridge standards, it wouldn't be as interesting without them.

Intel drew it... but guys at ASRock probably thought "it's only a guide" (ie. hits and suggestions).
Thanks to that, we have this monstrosity : LINK
😀
And U can even buy new : LINK

I've looked at that product link so many times in the past 🤣

Lovely motherboard.

RatCatcher wrote:

The 4670 AGP was the last. Second to last is the 3850 AGP. Although the 3850 is a bit faster in some cases. These cards are getting rare and will probably be very hard to find or expensive in five years. I have a both and they are terrible at playing videos.

I've never used either of those cards, but I have an HD2600XT AGP. It will accelerate video playback very well but it was a little tricky getting it to happen on the software side of things. What worked for me was MPC-BE (apparently a modern derivative of Media Player Classic). VLC definitely doesn't support it.
Using H.264 acceleration under MPC-BE, the HD2600XT AGP was able to play 720p 60fps and 1080p 30fps files downloaded from youtube, but as I recall 1080p 60fps stuttered. CPU usage was <10% so it was definitely using the GPU. The driver won't accelerate Flash though so it doesn't help directly on youtube.

I'm pretty sure the HD4xxx series cards have a newer generation of H.264 support and I think it's even supported in newer versions of VLC Player. It might also accelerate Flash video (which I suppose is dying in usefulness now). HD3850 might also, but not sure about that one.