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Amiga computers - which one to get?

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Reply 40 of 111, by brostenen

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Scali wrote:
brostenen wrote:

- Amiga's becomming a hipster's-retro-show-what-I-got thing.

Heh, I'd be surprised if hipsters even know what an Amiga is, let alone how to use one 😉

Not like a hipster would even consider using it. For them, it would be like a show-thing.
By my statement I meant, you know, using it as a collection item never to be used.
If some hipster are using such a beautifull thing, like that, then I am oficially pissed. 😠

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Those cakes make you sick....

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Reply 41 of 111, by seob

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I would also say that a a500 with 1mb and kickstart 1.3 is the best option. Also get a rgb to scart cable so you van connect it to a tv. Or better try to get it with a 1084s monitor.
I got a decent collection of amiga's, a few a500's, a cdtv, non working a1200 and a cd32. The system i use most is my modded cdtv. I used to have a 1000, but gave it away since i thought it was broken. Didn't know that it didn't have kickstart on chip and that you had to boot it of disk. Still very painfull for me that i gave it away.
Hope to add a gotek to my amiga soon. I have modded a msx2 with a gotek clone, and it is really one of the best upgrades you can buy. Easy exchange of software from pc to home computer.

Make sure to desolder any battery that comes on ramupgrades underneat the trapdoor. They will mostlikely be leaking.

Reply 42 of 111, by lvader

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If you are happy to play with games on floppy then an Amiga 500 (ideally with 1mb) is all you need. If you want the convenience of 100's of Amiga games stored on a CF card then you really need a 1200 with at least 4mb ram. But 1200's are tricky they have all sorts of issues requiring potential hardware fixes (famous timing fixes). You have to be really lucky to get one that works without any issues, I finally got one at the 3rd attempt.

Reply 43 of 111, by keropi

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A1200 timing fixes are only needed for 68040 and 68060 cards. Lately some of the first ACA1230's needed them (those that are in the range of 45+ mhz IIRC). You don't need any timing fixes for older 030 and lower cards 😀
Capacitors are another issue, they are old, low quality and IMHO need to be replaced for all A1200/A4000/A600 amigas ASAP

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Reply 45 of 111, by Unknown_K

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I have a few AGA enhanced games but the differences are not that big. Heck early Amiga games were just simple ports of Atari ST games that didn't even use the special Amiga chips at all (100% CPU). Most of the AGA games ended up canceled when Commodore went bankrupt and the PC gaming scene took over (AGA 1200 and 4000 machines were the last Commodore made).

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Reply 46 of 111, by Unknown_K

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Amigas were much cheaper a decade ago when die hard users finally dumped them for Mac/Unix/X86 pcs. Most of the machines I purchased were from that time period plus a couple I got as-is from fellow collectors. Also helped that the dollar was high and shipping from Canada was cheap at that time. These days I couldn't afford some of my gear if I had to repurchase it over again. Accelerators are not needed but sometimes they are useful (plus an easy way to add more RAM to a system). I have a 68030/40 GVP card in one of my A2000's with 16MB GVP RAM which is hard as hell to find, plus a Blizzard 68030/50 in my A1200. Ethernet is also expensive for desktop machines and video cards are pricey too. Never seen the need for an 040 or better CPU upgrade and PPC ones are just for the die hards. Speaking of RAM, outside of the A4000 that takes normal 72 pin SIMMs you are stuck finding special boards , custom designed chips, or hard to find DIP and VRAM looking chips. I think the A1200 can use older PCMCIA RAM but then you loose out on a cheap Ethernet solution for that model.

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Reply 47 of 111, by Kodai

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I've mentioned it in another thread sometime ago, but it should be said again:

The all in one Amiga's (ie the 500, 500+, 600, and 1200) are made with REALLY poor quality plastics that have become with brittle with age and heat form use. If you get one shipped to you make sure you have it loose wrapped in bubble wrap at least two inches thick (tightly wrapped seems to put stress on the case and keys), then boxed, and bubble wrapped again, then put in to a second box. Have all other parts shipped in another box. I went through several of them busting in half, cracked cases, and brittle keys popping off. All in well packed and none should have broken.

Commodore used the cheapest plastic they could on the all in one Amiga's as well as the C64c's (the second C64 in the white, Amiga looking case), and now its starting to haunt owners of those rigs. Oddly enough, Atari ST's are made with amazingly strong plastics that are as good today as the day they were made. I mention the Atari because they were run by Jack Tramiel after he left Commodore and he just might have been the cheapest man in the history of the earth. He would never pay a fraction of a cent for better plastic if he there was a cheaper option, yet many of Commodore's rigs are in really rough shape now while ST's are still chugging along like there were just made.

Still as an old Commodore junkie I still love the Amiga line, and can say that for a game rig the 500 is just fine. I have yet to stick a gotek in mine, and still use floppy's. There are a couple of projects in the works (cant find the links right now), that will be adding more RAM, IDE interface, and something else to the 500. Last a saw a few months ago, the project was near complete. I know it would require a wee bit of modding to tuck a 2.5" HDD inside the case, but no biggie. The chip ram expansion on many A500's is starting to become an issue for many as most of them had a real time clock/calendar with a battery backup. The issue is the batteries are dead and leaking on many of the expansions, and the vast majority of them require a use to desolder the old battery and solder in a new one by directly soldering to the battery. Not the safest thing for many who have never used a soldering iron before.

Then there is the display issues. Its not hard to hook an A500 up to a modern display, but it does require some extra bits, dongles, and adaptors that are bit of a hassle. Considering that most games on the Amiga were sprite based, they tend not to look their best on modern LCD's. If you can, its best to buy a quality RGB monitor like the 1084 or 1084-S. Those can cost twice the price of the computer if shipping prices are added in.

In the end, it does require some effort and money to get into retro Amiga's but not as much as it seems at first glance. The 1000 and 500 are going to be the hardest to get up and going and while the core systems can be had cheaper than any of the other Amiga's, they will cost more in money, time and effort to make into a good game rig. The 3000's are the best line if you can pay the upfront cost, as they are very easy to work with, backwards compatible with most 500 games, and pretty much ready to go out of the box, and easy to expand for other things like a Video Toaster. The 500+ are a fairly rare breed, and the 600's and 1200's are just way to costly when you consider the fact you can get the 2000's and 3000's for the same or less and they are simpler to work with. Dont even think of looking at the 4000 if money is something to consider. Then again, I'm in the US and those are pretty rare machines here so they tend to be a bit pricey.

Still worth it, and they are just going to keep going up in price. If the bug has bit you and you decide not to get one, then you will kick yourself in a couple years with the prices are double or tripple what they are now. I loved my Amiga's in the late 80's and early 90's. Sold and traded them off and regretted until I got back into them about 6-7 years ago. No longer have my plotter, external HDD, external CD-ROM drive, external floppy drives, or my homebrew robot lab for my old Amiga's. Those kinds of things are to hard to find and cost way to much now, but at least I can play great Amiga games they way they were meant to be played. Just an A500 with a 1MB chip ram expansion and a 1084-S monitor. Well worth it if you can skip the urge to expand the Amiga for a very limited number of games. Good luck with whatever you decide to get.

Reply 48 of 111, by PhilsComputerLab

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Grea tpost Kodai 😀

I agree that an RGB monitor or Scart RGB TV is a big part of the Amiga experience. I only owned an Amiga 500 for a few weeks back when I was at school. I bought it off a class mate, it was the Amiga 500 and a Philips CM 8833. It was quite late in terms of market, the 386 was well established, not sure why I got it, the price was quite decent.

I played a few games and then sold it off again. The graphics and music / sound are quite unique. There are lots of games that you're better off playing on a PC, but there are also a ton of games that are better played on the Amiga, a lot of the early games that got really bad PC ports with PC speaker only for example.

I still haven't done a review on the Mist Amiga core, partly because it's just so much work and it's hard to decide on what games I should review.

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Reply 49 of 111, by Kodai

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Hey Phil, try some side by side comparison games. Star Control II with GUS on PC vs Amiga, then maybe GODS with MIDI on PC vs Amiga. I think it would make a great comparison video and give a good look at how well the Mist core really stacks up as a multi role machine.

Reply 50 of 111, by PhilsComputerLab

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Kodai wrote:

Hey Phil, try some side by side comparison games. Star Control II with GUS on PC vs Amiga, then maybe GODS with MIDI on PC vs Amiga. I think it would make a great comparison video and give a good look at how well the Mist core really stacks up as a multi role machine.

Yea at some point I need to make a list of games to test. I'd like to focus on the great Amiga games, but yea I got to do some research I'm afraid.

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Reply 51 of 111, by Kurasiu

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I actually own the late Amiga 500 model (the one with the 500+ board, complete with ECS/Fat Agnus, but 512K of chip RAM only, though there are free slots on the motherboard to add the RAM chips), with 1 MB of chip RAM (I resoldered the jumpers and changed the slow trapdoor RAM into chip RAM), kipper2k's 8MB/IDE card (additional 8MB of slow RAM + CF card connector), 3.1 Kickstart ROM (for the CF card, which acts like a hard drive) and Gotek with HXC firmware/original floppy drive. Sure, some games have slowdowns here and there, but overall I'm quite happy with this setup, as, so far, every game I've tested worked without a problem (though some had read errors, while accessing the disk. The magic of old floppies, I guess).

The only major issue I can think of is the WHDLoad compatibility - sadly, 1 MB of chip RAM isn't nearly enough to play most of the games, so, unless there's an installer already available on disk (like Monkey Island 1/2 or Ultima VI), my only option is to play from floppies.

Reply 52 of 111, by BloodyCactus

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kanecvr wrote:

Thanks for the input everyone! I guess I'll try to get an 1MB 500 model - they seem to be the best option for me since all I plan to do is run old games off a floppy. Not interested in running an OS, wifi or other neat things they can do. I'll try to snag a 600 if I can find a complete on for less then 120$ shipped.

I would not get a 500 unless it came with a sidecar (hard drive plugged on the side), you dont want to be messing with floppies and stuff, and even then youd want to make sure it was a 500+

if you want the ecs/ocs experience, get an 2000 or 3000. 2000 should be easy to get, more so than 3000.

like with all things custom hardware, revisions matter, (be it a500, 2k, 3k etc).. for an amiga 2000 I'd go for a rev 6+ mobo, then you can put a dkb megachip on it for 2mb chipram (very important!).

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Reply 53 of 111, by adalbert

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I bought partially broken Amiga 600 two months ago (I have newer owned Amiga machine before), I soldered new capacitors, replaced FDD, hacked additional megabyte of ram into it ("piggybacked" two new memory chips by soldering them on top of stock ones), installed 512MB CF-card, prepared special flooppy disk with HDD drivers (mine has old kickstart without HDD support) and that's it. So I have 2MB memory, Workbench, I can load some games with WHDload, but after messing around with it for about 3 or 4 days I put it on a shelf. I keep it it for collection purposes (just like 1983 C64 breadbin i bought one week earlier), but it is getting boring pretty quick for me. I personally like old laptop PCs with Win 3.1 and MS-DOS more 😜

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Reply 54 of 111, by brassicGamer

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adalbert wrote:

I personally like old laptop PCs with Win 3.1 and MS-DOS more 😜

This is a very good point. While electronics is electronics and, mostly, hardware is hardware (similarities can be found between Macs, PCs and Sun hardware of the same era). Software is a whole different ball of wax. Give me a PC or Mac of any era and I'm a power user. Give me a Sun workstation and I'm an idiot.

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Reply 55 of 111, by Scali

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brassicGamer wrote:

mostly, hardware is hardware

Amiga is one of the very few exceptions to the rule. Its hardware is capable of some very unique things. Especially if you like to do some programming on your old machines, the Amiga is an awesome experience.

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Reply 56 of 111, by brassicGamer

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Scali wrote:
brassicGamer wrote:

mostly, hardware is hardware

Amiga is one of the very few exceptions to the rule. Its hardware is capable of some very unique things. Especially if you like to do some programming on your old machines, the Amiga is an awesome experience.

Exactly. So, at this point in time, for anyone other than a genuine enthusiast, who is actually going to use an Amiga these days and get the most out of it? Best case scenario: a hipster buys an Amiga for an inflated price, realises they're out of their depth, sells it for less money to an enthusiast. Worst case scenario: they store it or bin it. This is part of the reason I sold mine originally - I didn't have the time or the inclination to learn how to use it, being a DOS user. Now, though, I do have the time and inclination so I'll be downloading demos, playing games: actually using the thing. And I also want to get my Sun workstation working too - I don't like not being good at things 😀

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Reply 57 of 111, by seob

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I don't get it why people keep saying one should get a 1200 or the 2000,3000 or 4000 series. Those are way to expensive if you only want to play a few amiga games. Most of the games need a 500 with 1 meg of ram. Nothing more. For 1 a1200 you can buy at least 2 a500's with some goodies.
If you just start and want to see if the amiga is worth it, don't overspend on a1200 's or up.
And like others have mentioned, if you don't want to use floppies, you can get a gotek and boot games from usb stick. It won't be fast, but it's still cheaper then the other options.

Reply 58 of 111, by zerker

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brassicGamer wrote:

This is part of the reason I sold mine originally - I didn't have the time or the inclination to learn how to use it, being a DOS user.

Yeah, this is always something important to keep in mind. I was in the same situation when I found a Commodore 64 at a Thrift store. I think I kept it for a couple years... capable of nothing but built-in basic... before I decided I wasn't going to get anything together for it.

Reply 59 of 111, by badmojo

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I've never had an Amiga, but I've been tempted from time-to-time since seeing this image:

http://www.cgsociety.org/cgsarchive/newgaller … 90763_large.jpg

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