Because most of what you can do on an old computer can be emulated today on a newer computer.

You can essentially run all os's and program either in emulation or vm. thus making the old hardware a pure exercise in nostalgia for enthusiasts but a pain for others.

I think a lot of how we "view" certain historical computers boils down to where we were at that point in History. My first computer was a Texas Instruments TI99/4a and they were never Cool, mainly
thanks to TI's Superiority complex and boring corporate philosophy. They discouraged 3rd party software developement, Atarisoft being an exception, and never released technical data on their machines.
Unlike Commodore that freely gave the information out and encouraged software developers knowing sales would benefit.
My next computer was an Amiga 500 in late 1989, which cost $900 AUD. I took it round a friends place and He was completely blown away by the stereo sound effects it was capable of, the game was
Super Hang-on if I remember.
The PC realistically was considered as a Business machine primarily, massively overpriced and technically underwhelming at the time. Most people didn't have $5000 to spend on a computer, so machines
like 8 and 16 bit Atari's and C64's and Amiga's stayed popular until the PC got more powerful, cheaper, and had better sound capabilities.
Most certainly the demise of Atari and Commodore helped PC sales enough to start the prices falling, and in 1994 I bought my first PC, $3200, an Intel 486 dx2-66 machine with 14inch monitor, 2 speed cdrom,
sb16, 1mB Cirrus logic Vesa card. At last I could play games like Wing Commander (turbo off) and X-wing. X-wing I first saw in the UK on Holiday in 1993 in a computer store and knew then a PC was
going to be next on my list.

In terms of user friendliness the PC was a giant backwards step. No longer could You just put a disk in and it automatically loaded, but had to spend hours learning Dos commands and how to configure
hardware and software from the command prompt. This was a challenge at the time, but now I look back at that era with great fondness as I love a technical challenge.

Nowdays i own, in rough order of age, 3x Atari 2600's, 1x Vic-20, 3x TI99/4a's, 3x Commodore 64's, 3x Commodore Plus/4 (dog of a machine really but appreciating in value), 1x Atari 65XE, 1x Amiga 500.
XT PC Clone motherboard (dead at the moment), 486 computer with various cpu's, sound cards, video cards, etc. Socket 7, Socket A, Socket 478, LGA1156.

If You are into tinkering there is nothing like PC's to get into, and that period from about 1993 to 2005 or so there was nothing like it as the technology was advancing rapidly and also game development.
All old computers have their niche, some much bigger that others, and what can be done with some of them now is quite incredible. I am blown away at what the various communities have come up
with in terms of hardware and software with better tools available that what was possible 25-35 years ago.
Whether something was or wasn't "cool" back in the day is irrelevant now, all that matters is the communities that have built up to support them.

Amibay is a great place, but maybe it's time they got off their high horse a bit and gave the PC a proper category.

A lot of people I know think DOS games are cool. They have fond memories. Otherwise: who cares what people think. 😀

99.99999999999999999% of people could not care less about vintage computing and/or emulation and/or hardware BTW.

I think this topic is frustrating because we cannot explain it, my guess is that the mob will always make fun of the passionated, is it today with people using vintage computer or was it back then with people using computers at all ?

tikoellner wrote:

I've been wondering lately why do retro PC computers (by which I mean mostly XT - 486 class machines have generally lower recogn […]
Show full quote

I've been wondering lately why do retro PC computers (by which I mean mostly XT - 486 class machines have generally lower recogniton than Amiga, Atari, consoles, etc.

Example: Amibay lists PC offers as "other" while there are separate departments for most other stuff.
Example 2: I grew tired explaining why I keep an old 486 in my room or buy any parts for it. And that's the question I do always face. If it was Amiga there would be no such questions asked (well, probably).

I think this is quite rare, as:
- PC stuff is so diverse. There are tons of different vga cards, soundcards, mobos, etc., some by very renown manufacturers (Roland, Yamaha, etc.);
- There are much more customization options;
- PC stuff nowadays doesn't seem to be more abundant, particularly when we refer to things like GUS or even best AWE32 models;
- There was probably similar or even bigger number of people having PC while they were young than having other systems.

My theory is that it's somehow related to the associations we have. PC is much more associated with boring office work than any other system, even more so from todays perspective.

it's like when you like Amigas, some could consider you excentric. You fancy old PC stuff, then you're a neckbeard and just losing time you could spend better playing with children.

Or am I exagerrating?
And what do YOU think?

I noticed years ago that even amongst many retrocomputer hobbyists people would actually talk highly about IBM where more flexible PC-clones were generally talked down, so to say.

It's been hyped, just have a look at the wiki pages about retrocomputing and retrogaming...no mention of 3DFX for instance.

So while it is also because these other computer standards have faded into history while PCs have kept on going and evolving, there are some poeple who may simply never be happy with what they have and always lean towards wanting what they don't have.

And did I mention it's partially because it is hyped?

But the funny thing is, is that since these non-PC components got known better by the general public (3DFX isn't retrogaming...ZX-Spectrum is! A bit like that), these parts got more wanted including by people looking for some quick cash, resulting in exploded prices and (sometimes even vastly) increased costs to acquire and/or maintain these older systems where people building older PCs got away relatively unharmed by increased prices and scarcity....well, except maybe for a few really sought-after things like 3DFX and at least a few other more special types of hardware (like Socket 3 boards and certain PC sound cards and a few other thingies). So in a way, by promoting their own computer-island, they ended up getting more attention which does have benefits to basically almost any PC era which has anything to do with Windows.

I mean look at how cheap BX was, even a couple years ago.

One can still get a Socket 7 or BX going for very little money, even though this hardware is over 15 years old by now. Compatibility is good, as is availability. One can still build older rigs for cheaps, provided one isn't being too picky all the time.

So enjoy it while you can! 😁
Chances are good we will get our share eventually.

ElBrunzy wrote:

I think this topic is frustrating because we cannot explain it, my guess is that the mob will always make fun of the passionated, is it today with people using vintage computer or was it back then with people using computers at all ?

An old AT tower with LED display and 5.25in floppy drive will still be visible, while this was kinda different roughly 10 years ago? Those old AT towers were just obsolete and too old and slow to use. There were already people collecting, but there was vast supply and fewer collectors.

And screw the mobs, they are idiots.

PC are considered lame and boring because they are still around.

Most of the popularity of older systems is they died off. Commodore, Tandy (TRS-80 line, color computers), Atari, Timex, etc all died out and used something different then a x86 CPU. People like old gaming systems more then a mono IBM 5150 with 64K of RAM.

I went from a Timex 2068 to a C64 back in the day to a 286 and every main machine I had after was x86. My collecting bug started with me wanting a C64 back (sold it to help pay for my 286 in college). After a while I got curious about all the other systems I never had starting with the 68K mac. Gradual I collected a mountain of hardware and I also went back and revisited the PC stuff I had and never had.

Since most people don't have a fondness for DOS or Windows 3.1 era software I can see them not wanting anything pre 486 and only 486+ for gaming. For most people Windows didn't exist until 95 came out.

Tetrium wrote:

And screw the mobs, they are idiots.

He who controls the mob controls the scene.

I don't want to offend anyone. But, the reactions some folks have had to the fact that compared Amiga fans to Apple fans only stands to validate what I said.

I don't own an Amiga, but even just having watched youtube videos I can tell they were way ahead of their time. I won't take anything away from what they did well. Some one early said something about the fact that you just loaded and ran the software on the disks. Much like Apple, Commodore 64 used to do as well.

Anyway everyone has their own idea of what they are interested in. Plenty of room for Aminga, Apple, PC, and whatever else fans and room for those who are interested in more then one.

I do wish that amibay had a secontion for PCs rather then just Other. There is at least enough of a following to warrant that. No one can dispute that regardless of what their own interests are.

emosun wrote:

Because most of what you can do on an old computer can be emulated today on a newer computer.
You can essentially run all os's and program either in emulation or vm. thus making the old hardware a pure exercise in nostalgia for enthusiasts but a pain for others.

This.
And if the software is obsolete or not working on the new PC, there is always an equivalent and better replacement.

James-F wrote:

emosun wrote:

Because most of what you can do on an old computer can be emulated today on a newer computer.
You can essentially run all os's and program either in emulation or vm. thus making the old hardware a pure exercise in nostalgia for enthusiasts but a pain for others.

This.
And if the software is obsolete or not working on the new PC, there is always an equivalent and better replacement.

The problem with that reasoning is that the Amiga can be (almost) just as easily emulated on a current PC.

Was going to say the same thing. What's the problem to emulate any piece of retro hardware on a modern pc?

Jorpho wrote:

The problem with that reasoning is that the Amiga can be (almost) just as easily emulated on a current PC.

Owning hardware that is emulated 100% is unnecessary besides nostalgic or learning/knowledge reasons.
Owning hardware that is NOT emulated 100% is a completely different thing, that's why many of us own a 25 year old midi synths, game consoles, PCs (Amiga) that nobody cared to fully emulate.
Nobody cares for Amiga.... including me (I've never seen one actually). 🤣

Jo22 wrote:

And how were other popular platforms more exciting ? Please explain.
If I'm not mistaken, the Macs, Ataris and Amigas were all mouse grey, of rather simple design (case) and had similar internals.

You're missing the point I guess.
Yes, there were only a few types of Amiga. But the excitement was in the Amiga as a platform. It could do things that no other platform could.
So you have to compare Amiga to everything else out there. You'd get colourful animations, great stereo music, multitasking etc, while people on PCs were still in textmode with a monochrome screen, and a PC beeper.
Owning an Amiga gave you the feeling that you were part of something new and great. Looking at people trying to play games on PCs was hilarious and sad at the same time. And then if you look at the price tag it was even more hilarious and sad. Those people paid 3 or 4 times more money for their PC, and it couldn't do half the things an Amiga did.

I suppose similar things could be said about Mac and Atari ST.
Mac being the first popular system with a GUI, and bringing things like WYSIWYG and desktop publishing to the masses. It took many years for PCs to catch up.
And Atari ST, while not as technically advanced as the Amiga, was still generally a better gaming machine than a PC. And Atari was the platform of choice for CuBase, because of its integrated MIDI ports.

So these machines did things that no generic PC could do. That's what made them special and exciting. PCs weren't exciting, because they weren't capable of much.

Unknown_K wrote:

PC are considered lame and boring because they are still around.

Most of the popularity of older systems is they died off. Commodore, Tandy (TRS-80 line, color computers), Atari, Timex, etc all died out and used something different then a x86 CPU. People like old gaming systems more then a mono IBM 5150 with 64K of RAM.

Yeah, I think it's the fact all of those old systems were tied to their time more so than IBM PC's. The golden age of PC gaming started after all of those, and most daily use home PC's still had DOS under their flavor of Win9x 15 years ago. The retro hobby for 90's stuff is only just starting and it's probably never going to have quite the same 'prestige'.

firage wrote:

The retro hobby for 90's stuff is only just starting and it's probably never going to have quite the same 'prestige'.

Starting? I never lost it!
I don't know about you but I had Nestice (nes), Kega (genesis) and ZSNES (snes) emulators back in 2002 or earlier. I remember fiddling with Bleem! for PS1 emulation back in 2001.
All running on my Pentium 3 933Mhz with Windows ME, because Windows Whistler was lame.. 😎
That's only a couple of years past the 90s.

Our first PC was a Pentium 133 back in 1996 along with the brand new Mortal Kombat 3 as a gift.
To compare, my i7 3770K is 4 years old and it's still rocking, back in the day you'd go from Pentium 1 to Pentium 3 in 4 years with MASSIVE performance difference and a whole completely new generation of games and OS.

Aren't underdogs like 3DO, Neo Geo and Sega Saturn all a bit more interesting than the PlayStation? Cults form early and they have dedicated enthusiasts.

I never got into the older consoles. For me it started with the Playstation. 3D was my thing 😀

On the PC it started for me with a 386DX, VGA and Sound Blaster. Before that the Amiga was much stronger. That smooth 50 Hz PAL scrolling on a CRT monitor, you just didn't get that on the PC around that time. The music was also very nice, most games had very poor PC ports in EGA and with PC speaker sounds.

firage wrote:

Aren't underdogs like 3DO, Neo Geo and Sega Saturn all a bit more interesting than the PlayStation? Cults form early and they have dedicated enthusiasts.

3DO had a bad software library , the original Playstation sold like crazy for its game library. You couldn't find games like Wipeout XL on a PC of that time plus the ton of RPG games that started out on the PSX.