Why not try an YMF719 or an YMF7x4 with SB(PC)Link?

YMF-718/YMF-719 plus a Dreamblaster-S1 daughterboard is my best bet. If you want to have creative, then get one with OPL chip, and one of those goldfinch (think it is spelled like that) and an Dreamblaster-S1.

Or if you want to stick with Creative, why not just to get some SB 16 and a midi daughterboard - either DB50XG (NEC XR 386) or mentioned Dreamblaster S1? Can also look for Wave Blaster II which will do even better IMO than AWE 32.

You sure you need true OPL? Doom isn't a great example of a game that will use it. Very quick rundown of Dos sound formats.

OPL is mostly for older games that need adlib support. Its probably one of the reasons Creative dropped it in later years (didn't want to pay for a really used feature)

Digital sound or Sound Blaster in game menus. On your AWE64 this will use the SB16 chip (AWE cards are SB16's with the EMU chip)

MIDI is the last mainstream option, basically for superior music. This is what all the daughter boards above do and definitely what Doom would sound best in.

AWE is a mixed bag, and never really taken advantage of. A few games will use the EMU chip for sound, but most just treat it as a alternate to MIDI

With that all out of the way!
Maybe a shorter AWE32 Value will fit? You'll loose the memory expansion.

I recommend the above mentioned ISA YMF718 or YMF719. That will give you decent SB support, true OPL3, and has a waveblaster header in which you can plug a daughterboard such as the Dreamblaster S1 for great MIDI music. That covers 3 out of 4 formats. If you want AWE support as well, you can add a CT1920 "Goldfinch" card. That one is meant to be an AWE upgrade to a standard soundblaster, but can be used standalone or with other sound cards (but you'll have to make your own passthrough cable to connect it from the goldfinch connector to the sound card's line input or one of the auxiliary inputs). That would cover the 4th sound option, at the expense of using a second ISA slot.

The CT2800 you mentioned does have true OPL3, but its Vibra chip doesn't have some mixer controls; if you can live with that, it's a good option. It has wavetable connector, and you can add a goldfinch card for AWE (but again you'll have to make your own passthrough cable). Other Creative part numbers you may want to look for: CT2740, CT2260.

Thanks for the suggestions everybody. I need the following from the sound card:

-Adlib/OPL support I would like to have for old games such as Descent. The tradeoff is AWE effects in the one game that requires it (Croc). It's only used for reverb. There's only one free ISA slot, so it's one or the other. The AWE32 Value as suggested doesn't appear to have true OPL.

-Standard 4-pin CD Audio

-Regular support for digital sound; DirectX etc. (I think all sound cards fit this requirement)

-Short length (CT4500 is about the limit)

The YMF719 looks good. Why did you all unanimously suggest it instead of Sound Blaster? Will it play digital sound, CD audio, and FM sound like a SB? I have this quote in mind when I ask:

Great Hierophant wrote:

Duke Nukem II uses 8-bit to 3-bit or 8-bit to 2-bit ADPCM capabilities of the Sound Blaster cards for sound effects that the YMF cards do not emulate.

Seems like I'd just be better off with a SB, correct?

By the way, I'm running Windows 95 and focusing on games designed for 1994-1999 PCs such as Quake, Sonic CD, Sonic R, Croc, Myst, Simcity 2000, Descent/II etc.

EDIT:

Will this be an issue?

All sound cards I've used with a YMF262 on them(OPTi 82C929A, SoundBlaster Pro 2.0, SoundBlaster Vibra16 model CT2260) will output garbage when used on a CPU faster than 133MHz and the SoundBlaster 16 Value's ASIC-based YMF262 will screw up past 400MHz.

Source.

I don't know about the Duke Nukem II sound effects problem, but it seems a bit outside of the time frame that you're concentrating upon. I haven't experienced any problems with OPL3 on fast processors, in fact I have just done some tests with a YMF724 card (that has a real OPL3 inside) on a P4-2.66GHz, and all games in which I tried OPL music sound great.

In fact, let me test Duke Nukem II on this setup and will report back.

(edit) tested, sound effects and music sound great on this PCI YMF724 card.

Great! Should I get the CT2260 or the YMF719?

EDIT: It appears the fast processor problem applies only to one game called X-Wing, and this is due to inappropriate programming of delays that depend on CPU cycles. It is in this thread.

Hmmm.... Don't know about that Adlib messing up.
I have been using both Vibra's and older SB16's on K6-III-400, and it is only the really old games that I have had any issues with.
Then again, I am using 486's and 386's now, for those 1989 to 1991/92 games.
I have been doing that cache disabling trick on the K6 platform to get them games running.

When speaking of Adlib screwing up, I don't think it even matters if the card is a Creative or other brand.
OPL chip's are OPL chip's. So if a creative screws up, I tend to think that a Yamaha card will too.
The best option for you, are still to get a card of some sort of brand, that has real OPL and then get something
like the Dreamblaster-S1/X1 daughterboard. Look for possible compatibility with the Goldfinch, and if the card
can use that thing, then get that too. That way you can "make" you'r AWE32 combined with MIDI.

Else... Get another case, that takes full size cards. And then get a real AWE32.

Apples555 wrote:

Great! Should I get the CT2260 or the YMF719?

EDIT: It appears the fast processor problem applies only to one game called X-Wing, and this is due to inappropriate programming of delays that depend on CPU cycles. It is in this thread.

X-wing is one of the games I tested. It runs great, and both music and sound effects sound good on a P4-2.66GHz with YMF724.

If the motherboard you're using has a PC/PCI header (aka SB-link) I recommend a YMF724/744/754 card. Then the ISA slot remains available for something else, such as (if you really want AWE effects) a Goldfinch CT1920 card. 😀 Actually no need to even bother getting another card since you already have an AWE64, you can leave that in and use for AWE synthesis.

Or if you don't have a SB-link on your motherboard, I suggest this: keep your AWE64 card and use that for everything (SB, AWE) except for FM. Then also get a YMF7x4 card and use it for OPL music only. OPL synthesis on these cards works without the need for SB-link. Think of it as a PCI AdLib. :p

Getting another case is probably the most logical answer.

I can live with OPL and no AWE though. I'll get the CT2260 (because it seems to be the least expensive). I'll just keep the AWE64 around if I ever want to swap it in.

Thanks all.

I don't know what you mean by the goldfinch AWE card. Does it need an ISA slot? Because there is only one. The other is PCI and taken by the Voodoo.

Owww, you have just one ISA and one PCI slots? Time for another motherboard.

Indeed.

I wonder how the onboard is creating FM. There are two sound devices in device manager, Crystal Audio Codec and Crystal FM Synthesizer. I really doubt there's an OPL chip onboard, but the first thing I noticed when I listened to the AWE64's FM is how awful it is compared to the onboard.

Goldfinch is the awe32 upgrade card. Think of it like an AWE32 without an SB16 card. I think it is called CT-1900/1920 or something. I am not 100% shure on that. You can Google it though.

Can you confirm what sound chip is on board? You should be able to find it visually.

I split this thread so the frequency discussion can continue in a separate thread. It's an interesting topic on its own:

FM OPL3 frequency differences

Indeed it is.
Thanks Phil.