stamasd wrote:

clueless1 wrote:

And in case you can't come up with anymore uses, here's the old standby:

*no video cards were harmed in the making of this photo

Similarly, a Virge makes a decent fan to cool yourself on hot days.

This will actually work 😀. A Voodoo 2 is a bit too heavy on the wrists for prolonged usage 😢
S3 beats 3DFX in the Flaps Per Second department, hands down 😀

elianda wrote:

From 1995, still kicking http://ftp.retronn.de/hwpics/graphics_card_elsa_winner_2000pro_pci_8_front.jpg […]
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From 1995, still kicking

Never seen an S3 like that. The bluwy thing looks like the thing I seen on #9 cards.

I also have this very long S3 card with such a handle, it's even got 2 Virges(?) instead of 1, but it uses some kind of proprietary monitor plug which I never had.

Elia1995 wrote:

I used it as a "testing" card on my dear Abit NF-7 (the one which doesn't seem to show anything but powers up just fine) and I saw completely nothing...

A few years ago my Diamond S3 Virge PCI card didn't work properly on my NF7-S. I don't remember the exact symptoms, I *think* it may have still POSTed but I don't remember for sure. Because of that experience I wouldn't trust it for testing any nForce2 board, I'd try an AGP card instead, preferably lightweight but more contemporary to that board.

Tetrium wrote:

This will actually work :). A Voodoo 2 is a bit too heavy on the wrists for prolonged usage :depressed: S3 beats 3DFX in the F […]
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stamasd wrote:

clueless1 wrote:

And in case you can't come up with anymore uses, here's the old standby:

*no video cards were harmed in the making of this photo

Similarly, a Virge makes a decent fan to cool yourself on hot days.

This will actually work 😀. A Voodoo 2 is a bit too heavy on the wrists for prolonged usage 😢
S3 beats 3DFX in the Flaps Per Second department, hands down 😀

elianda wrote:

From 1995, still kicking http://ftp.retronn.de/hwpics/graphics_card_elsa_winner_2000pro_pci_8_front.jpg […]
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From 1995, still kicking

Never seen an S3 like that. The bluwy thing looks like the thing I seen on #9 cards.

I also have this very long S3 card with such a handle, it's even got 2 Virges(?) instead of 1, but it uses some kind of proprietary monitor plug which I never had.

Can we get some pictures and info on the Virge with 2 Virges. I'm very curious.It sounds like something that probably came from a professional enviroment. Maybe even ordered to spec?

Here are all my badged S3 video cards, I have accumulated and saved over the years - unfortunately years ago I foolishly gave away more of these, when still passion for the old hardware was not as strong as the need to make room - now that I live in my own house, I can store neatly and use/test quietly all the hardware of my beloved 90s years:

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

Can we get some pictures and info on the Virge with 2 Virges. I'm very curious.It sounds like something that probably came from a professional enviroment. Maybe even ordered to spec?

Here's a (crummy) pic of the card, as I don't know where my camera is and the card's stuffed away atm, this is the best I can do for now.

I do remember this particular card was discussed here on Vogons before, so possibly someone will recognize it and can fill in.

Tetrium wrote:

Here's a (crummy) pic of the card, as I don't know where my camera is and the card's stuffed away atm, this is the best I can do […]
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TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

Can we get some pictures and info on the Virge with 2 Virges. I'm very curious.It sounds like something that probably came from a professional enviroment. Maybe even ordered to spec?

Here's a (crummy) pic of the card, as I don't know where my camera is and the card's stuffed away atm, this is the best I can do for now.

I do remember this particular card was discussed here on Vogons before, so possibly someone will recognize it and can fill in.

Virge2x.jpg

I could find better pics on internet, that card was made by STB as OEM card for HP and Compaq Worksations, it has two S3 ViRGE/DX, 8 MB of EDO RAM (4 MB per ViRGE?) and a 170 MHz RAMDAC. For video, it uses a 68-pin propietary video connector designed to be used with an slipter to 2?/4 VGA ports

It's used by these following computers:
Compaq Professional Workstation PW5000
Compaq Professional Workstation PW5100
HP Professional Workstation 5100

Some links with info and pictures:
http://www.trademoon.com/270333-B22-Refurbish … d_p_159740.html
http://store.emprgroup.co.nz/p-104304-269489-001.aspx

Are you sure the specs are true? I can't see an external DAC on the board and a VirGE brings an internal 135 MHz DAC.

elianda wrote:

Are you sure the specs are true? I can't see an external DAC on the board and a VirGE brings an internal 135 MHz DAC.

Actually, not all the S3 ViRGE cards has the same 135 MHz RAMDAC

Acording to some pages. the S3 ViRGE/DX and ViRGE/GX variants has a 170 mhz RAMDAC

http://vintage3d.org/virgedx.php#sthash.z5JZtIBE.dpbs
http://www.vgamuseum.info/index.php/component … 367-s3-virge-dx
http://www.3dpchip.com/3dp/S3/3D/overview/po36vdgx.php

The original ViRGE (ViRGE/325) does have a 135 MHz RAMDAC acording to that page

http://vintage3d.org/virge.php#sthash.RoP7z5rN.dpbs
http://www.vgamuseum.info/index.php/cards/item/365-s3-virge

So acording to the researching, the RAMDAC on the ViRGE (and ViRGE based Trio3D) cards are:
ViRGE/325 (original ViRGE): 135 MHz
ViRGE/VX: 220 MHz
ViRGE/DX: 170 MHz
ViRGE/GX: 170 MHz
ViRGE/GX2: 170 MHz
Trio3D (improved ViRGE/GX2): 230 MHz
Trio3D/2X: 230 MHz

I also noticed that various sources give different values:
Such as the table here https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_ViRGE#Modelldaten
or even here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_ViRGE#Specifications
However I found Wikipedia not so reliable on old tech details. These original archived S3 product pages seem to be the best reference.

elianda wrote:

I also noticed that various sources give different values: Such as the table here https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_ViRGE#Modelld […]
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I also noticed that various sources give different values:
Such as the table here https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_ViRGE#Modelldaten
or even here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_ViRGE#Specifications
However I found Wikipedia not so reliable on old tech details. These original archived S3 product pages seem to be the best reference.

I noticied as well. Also, i edited both pages with the right specifications

Thanks for the info on that card. I can't really remember for sure where I got it from, but it may have been from HCC dagen many years ago, having been dumped inside a cardboard box along with a few other items when it hadn't gotten sold. I think I got my ActionMedia II from that same box. I don't have any of the cables of both cards and chances are good both cards were actually still in a sealed anti-static bag (which I had opened as I wanted to see the part numbers etc).

True, the pic I uploaded is very very poor, but I still don't know where my camera is and I just couldn't be arsed to dig the card out again, knowing I can't take better pics of it anyway.

Just tested my S3 Virge to get 256 colors on Windows 3.11 on my Celeron PC.

It glitches like hell with the 256 colors settings in Windows 3.11

The card ain't broken, it works fine on DOS and I even managed to play some Terminal Velocity and Duke Nukem 3D.

My only explanation for this behaviour is: wrong drivers.

EDIT: It were indeed the drivers, now that I installed the right ones, it works fine and I got "forgot the number" K (or million ?) of colors on Windows 3.11 !!!

xjas wrote on 2016-07-07, 08:50:

^^ What they said. I have a PCI Virge (a 4MB Virge DX) in my P233MMX. It's compatible with everything, rock solid, and about as fast as you can get for a PCI framebuffer card for that system. Actually it's even good enough to make S3D "accelerated" DOS games acceptable. Not quick, but acceptable.

Why "frame buffer"? I thought frame buffer graphic cards ended approx. with the Tseng Labs ET4000 AX. Even the ET4000 W32 was an accelerated card, not a fb anymore.
The S3 Virge is long newer than the various Accelerator cards such as the S3 805, S3924, S3 Vision 868, S3 Vision 968, even the S3 Trio.

I would have bet solid money that the Virge DX is an accelerator card

I'm not sure, but I guess by fast "frame buffer card" he meant a fast VGA device.

On the other hand, some cards supported Overlay/DCI and DirectDraw in hardware.
Some used bit blitting operations or PCI bus mastering\DMA (?) for that.

All that's essentially providing an accelerated frame buffer, in one way or another.
Because, these standards allow direct access to video memory ("frame buffer").

I use them as disposable testing cards for motherboards I get where I dont know if they work or need to be tested fully, Virge cards are perfect throwaway test bench tools that are cheap to replace.
As for a DOS card, I guess if you really dont have anything else but most of us do have better cards for DOS purposes.

IMO, the best use case for a Virge card is DOS gaming. Their DOS compatibility is among the best, and they have good Windows 3.1 drivers too.

It's also fun to experiment with S3D accelerated games, but don't expect great performance there. Despite popular belief, the Virge can actually be faster than software rendering on period-correct machines, such as a Pentium 133. You also get 16-bit colors, bilinear filtering and perspective correction, making the games look nicer.

The DX/GX varieties of the Virge cards are the fastest of the bunch, while the VX is the slowest. Additionally, clock speeds and image quality can vary by manufacturer, so it's best to look for reputable ones like STB, Diamond, Elsa, Hercules etc.

Under Win9x, the Virge is best used for early 2D gaming. It's simply too slow for most 3D accelerated titles, and any games made after '97 should not be played on that card. I cringe when YouTube reviewers put the poor thing through 3DMark 99 or Unreal and then claim that it's a "decelerator". Technology moved at a rapid pace back in the day, and early 3D cards should (shockingly!) be used with early 3D games.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-08-15, 06:26:

IMO, the best use case for a Virge card is DOS gaming. Their DOS compatibility is among the best, and they have good Windows 3.1 […]
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IMO, the best use case for a Virge card is DOS gaming. Their DOS compatibility is among the best, and they have good Windows 3.1 drivers too.

It's also fun to experiment with S3D accelerated games, but don't expect great performance there. Despite popular belief, the Virge can actually be faster than software rendering on period-correct machines, such as a Pentium 133. You also get 16-bit colors, bilinear filtering and perspective correction, making the games look nicer.

The DX/GX varieties of the Virge cards are the fastest of the bunch, while the VX is the slowest. Additionally, clock speeds and image quality can vary by manufacturer, so it's best to look for reputable ones like STB, Diamond, Elsa, Hercules etc.

Under Win9x, the Virge is best used for early 2D gaming. It's simply too slow for most 3D accelerated titles, and any games made after '97 should not be used on that card. I cringe when YouTube reviewers put the poor thing through 3DMark 99 or Unreal and then claim that it's a "decelerator". Technology moved at a rapid pace back in the day, and early 3D cards should (shockingly!) be used with early 3D games.

This all depends on what S3 Virge card you have too .. if you have one of the ones with a good DAC on it ill look amazingly good ..if not then it'll look like washed out garbage.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-08-15, 06:29:

This all depends on what S3 Virge card you have too .. if you have one of the ones with a good DAC on it ill look amazingly good ..if not then it'll look like washed out garbage.

Yup, hence my note on using cards from reputable manufacturers.

Unbranded (no-name) Virge cards tend to suffer from poor image quality and improper black levels.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-08-15, 06:32:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-08-15, 06:29:

This all depends on what S3 Virge card you have too .. if you have one of the ones with a good DAC on it ill look amazingly good ..if not then it'll look like washed out garbage.

Yup, hence my note on using cards from reputable manufacturers.

Unbranded (no-name) Virge cards tend to suffer from poor image quality and improper black levels.

The good thing is some garbage Virge cards can be partially fixed with a bios flash from a similar good Virge, doesnt always work and runs the risk of bricking the card but hey its a garbage Virge so you dont have much to lose. If it works though you usually end up with a card that has significantly improved gamma levels and proper blacks sadly it doesnt usually fix poor image quality as that is solely up to the quality of the DAC.

I agree that the old common discussion of the Virge chips to be "decelerators" never had sense. It was the sw rendering path that simply was much lighter and less complex than any hw accelerated version of the same game that improved obviously features that the cpu could have never done together with its other rendering tasks. Imho the problem of this was that these cards were too often called "accelerators" when instead they should have been better explained that the video chips offloaded the cpu from new rendering tasks that would not be seen in the sw rendering.

Then we can of course discuss about the Virge serie to be anyway a weak engine in its time and refreshed for too much time before the Savage3D with its problems began to really move in the right direction.More or less similar to the Rage/Rage II situation. But at the end the Rage IIc received some final good compatible drivers even not a gaming chip itself.