Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Discussion about old PC hardware.

Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby FFXIhealer » 2018-1-30 @ 04:33

Not a helpful post, but I like posting.

My Socket A (462) motherboard is an Abit KX7-333 board without the RAID. It supports all AMD Athlon and Athlon XP CPUs up to the Barton 3200+. It has 3 RAM slots and I currently have 2x 1GB DDR-400 sticks in there running at 333MHz. It supports AGP 2x/4x and has, like, 5 PCI slots and no ISA slots at all. It originally ran with an Athlon XP 1800+ Palomino, but I have upgraded the CPU to the 3200+ Barton, since as others have said it was so cheap. I also got a slightly bigger cooler to go on it as well.

However, the HDD was iffy and the RAM kept throwing errors, even though it was known good RAM. So I had it professionally recapped. Now, people here will think I'm insane for spending ~$130 USD on it, but I sent it out to a guy up north with professional resoldering tools and stuff and he put brand-new Nichicons in there for me. It's been 100% rock stable ever since.

However, I got an x700 Radeon that refuses to POST when it's in the system. We here on the forum are undecided if it's a bad card or my PSU (@25A on the 5V rail) is simply not powerful enough to get the card started. I have my old 9550xl Radeon card, but that's barely a workstation card. I know better now. I want a 9800 Pro or XT, but those are still expensive on Ebay and I currently don't have the kind of old-school beefy PSU to run it. I'd need to also get one of those 35A PSUs they mentioned very early in this thread.
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby Radical Vision » 2018-1-30 @ 18:31

Well i need also recapping some of my boards like ABIT BE6, TYAN Trinity K7, Intel 478 board, and others.. I just buy cheap Hitano caps, and a guy i know he recap them, and i give him DDR2 and other parts i get for real cheap, so you don`t need to pay ton of money to get something..
Hitano caps are not like the Japan caps, but the Hitano now is not like the Hitano back in the days, today the quality of that capacitors are way better, and it will hold the boards i have many years, before it need other recapp, as im using quality PSUs that help as well...
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby Jupiter-18 » 2018-1-31 @ 00:31

What kind of PSU would one need to run a dual athlon setup like that?
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby Tetrium » 2018-1-31 @ 02:09

FFXIhealer wrote:I got an x700 Radeon that refuses to POST when it's in the system.

Oh yes, I still remember this lol!
Jupiter-18 wrote:What kind of PSU would one need to run a dual athlon setup like that?

My guess would be something along the lines of 40A on the 5v line or so? I never actually build a dual sA (I don't even have such a board) but for a single CPU sA I'd use at least 30A on the 5v line.
25A seemed to still result in weird problems, even if the build appeared to work at first.

But this question is better answered by people who have actually build such a rig.
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby gdjacobs » 2018-1-31 @ 05:19

Radical Vision wrote:Well i need also recapping some of my boards like ABIT BE6, TYAN Trinity K7, Intel 478 board, and others.. I just buy cheap Hitano caps, and a guy i know he recap them, and i give him DDR2 and other parts i get for real cheap, so you don`t need to pay ton of money to get something..
Hitano caps are not like the Japan caps, but the Hitano now is not like the Hitano back in the days, today the quality of that capacitors are way better, and it will hold the boards i have many years, before it need other recapp, as im using quality PSUs that help as well...


Dude, I've never even heard of Hitano (until I read your post and Googled them). Are you limited in the caps you can source? Good quality Panasonics or UCC/NCC caps aren't usually that much more expensive.
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby Radical Vision » 2018-1-31 @ 12:12

You can see Hitano caps on some old mobos for example MSI i think did use them (the old MSI link to the feature line of products), but back then they was junk. While today they have way improved formula for the capacitors, and they can last way longer then any other taiwan brand. Panasonic it too expensive for me, as well as the rubicons, nichickons and others. Also using the motherboards i will get fixed with the hitano caps with quality PSU it will help saving the life of them. Also i will not use that systems like every single day so is whatever they will last at least many years like that. I have even some boards that uses from the trash caps brands and they are still not blown up, and the boards are stable. For example i did have one ABIT BE6-II with that type of caps and it was 100% stable, no problems, so the Hitano will be ok..




kevin!
06-18-2016,

Hitano capacitors are not bad at all, this brand has been manufacturing capacitors for many years, and long before the plague of badcaps.
I have seen mounted on an alarm system connected nearly 9 years in a row without stopping, until it began to fail several swelled due to heat and continuous use.


You can see that comment from badcaps forum.

No one says Hitano are the best existing caps, not me, not people i know, no one.
What i say is Hitano have great price/quality for what they offer. I did not choose to use that brand just like that, many people in my county use that brand to recapp whatever they need to recap, and they told me the brand is good for the money, if they was junk no one was going to tell me that, so this is the reason.
Also i get from every dead motherboard, video card, audio and other all the rubicons, panasonic, nichicons, nippon, sanyo caps, bcuz they are the best.
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby Jupiter-18 » 2018-1-31 @ 22:54

40A on the 5v rail... Modern PSUs won't do the trick then huh...
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby gdjacobs » 2018-1-31 @ 23:14

Radical Vision wrote:...


Reading on badcaps, the consensus is that they're on par with the better Taiwanese brands (like Teapo or Taicon). I was just curious why you chose that route instead of a mainstream Japanese manufacturer. I don't believe in needlessly replacing caps, but considering the cost in time, I generally do believe in using quality components for replacement, unless it's an emergency. Component cost is usually a fraction of the value of the overall job.
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby FFXIhealer » 2018-2-01 @ 02:22

Jupiter-18 wrote:40A on the 5v rail... Modern PSUs won't do the trick then huh...


I did find a few PSUs on Newegg that can push around 38A on the 5V+ rail, but you have to look hard. Check out some of the PSUs from LOGISYS. I'm tempted to get one for myself to see if I can get that x700 to work.
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby Radical Vision » 2018-2-01 @ 09:45

gdjacobs wrote:
Radical Vision wrote:...


Reading on badcaps, the consensus is that they're on par with the better Taiwanese brands (like Teapo or Taicon). I was just curious why you chose that route instead of a mainstream Japanese manufacturer. I don't believe in needlessly replacing caps, but considering the cost in time, I generally do believe in using quality components for replacement, unless it's an emergency. Component cost is usually a fraction of the value of the overall job.



Compared to others im focused on all hardware i can get, from 8086 up to AM3 that are way too much parts, sockets/platforms, processors, video cards and more then many others will bother to get. So i need to lower my costs to absolute minimum in order to get more parts, this is why i can`t spend much money on components that i buy, or even repair. I also upgrade my main machine, and you can see the prices are really retarded, specially RAM and GPUs, good at least i did get a deal from black friday previous year as my RX580 8GB did cost me only 260 euro instead of now 500-600 euro bcuz of the f**king miners.. I also upgrade my audio sold the Xonar Essence ST and buy Creative TitaniumHD, upgraded the op amps as well, my speakers to JBL and other..
Also i want to buy new monitor that is at least 3 time sbetter then my present, but no money for that now, so you can see the picture, why i don`t spend much on anything on my old machines and hardware... Best way for me to get japan capacitors is to find someone that have lot of scrap, and to get the boards from him that have japan caps and to get the caps off, then i return to him the boards, so i don`t pay for capacitors... I have like 3 cigarette boxes full with japan caps from dead boards..



FFXIhealer wrote:
I did find a few PSUs on Newegg that can push around 38A on the 5V+ rail, but you have to look hard. Check out some of the PSUs from LOGISYS. I'm tempted to get one for myself to see if I can get that x700 to work.


Istead look for old EnermaX units and Delta ones, they have lot of power on +5v, and specially Delta have japan caps inside (at least the HP models)..
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby gdjacobs » 2018-2-01 @ 14:57

Radical Vision wrote:Compared to others im focused on all hardware i can get, from 8086 up to AM3 that are way too much parts, sockets/platforms, processors, video cards and more then many others will bother to get. So i need to lower my costs to absolute minimum in order to get more parts,
...

Whoqh, dude. Slow down and enjoy yourself a little. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Radical Vision wrote:Best way for me to get japan capacitors is to find someone that have lot of scrap, and to get the boards from him that have japan caps and to get the caps off, then i return to him the boards, so i don`t pay for capacitors... I have like 3 cigarette boxes full with japan caps from dead boards..

This is not recommended. You don't know what conditions nor how long those caps were in operation.
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby Radical Vision » 2018-2-01 @ 15:34

gdjacobs wrote:
Whoqh, dude. Slow down and enjoy yourself a little. It's a marathon, not a sprint.



That is what im doing i enjoy the collecting of hardware, bcuz with every year the parts will be harder, and harder to get and the price will hit the roofs..


gdjacobs wrote:This is not recommended. You don't know what conditions nor how long those caps were in operation.


How so ? The japan caps specially rubycon, panasonic, sanyo/nippon, all of that capacitors are proven to be really well made, so they are not going to leak any time soon. Im even sure they are better then new Hitano caps or similar ones.. Elna caps are good as well, but they are mostly used in audio hardware, and nichicon caps are good, but not the ones from 2003-2006 as they did have bad capacitors in that time...

If you want go find some old boards, PSUs or other hardware that have original rubycon, panasonic, sanyo on them not recapped ones, and measure them, then you will see they are more then good to go many years...
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby Jupiter-18 » 2018-2-01 @ 16:20

For recapping purposes, I think I personally am sticking with new Japanese-made.
Regarding PSUs, I'll look for an older one, but only if it has been refurbished.
One question I had regarding that MSI board (and similar)
What do you guys use PCI-X/64-bit PCI for? I mean it was a server expansion to begin with, so really only networking and SCSI cards, but I have seen a few workstation 3D accelerator cards for PCI-X, and i was curious about that segment of use for it.
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby gdjacobs » 2018-2-02 @ 03:06

Radical Vision wrote:
gdjacobs wrote:This is not recommended. You don't know what conditions nor how long those caps were in operation.


How so ? The japan caps specially rubycon, panasonic, sanyo/nippon, all of that capacitors are proven to be really well made, so they are not going to leak any time soon. Im even sure they are better then new Hitano caps or similar ones.. Elna caps are good as well, but they are mostly used in audio hardware, and nichicon caps are good, but not the ones from 2003-2006 as they did have bad capacitors in that time...

If you want go find some old boards, PSUs or other hardware that have original rubycon, panasonic, sanyo on them not recapped ones, and measure them, then you will see they are more then good to go many years...


Again, it depends. Quality Japanese capacitors will fail given the right combination of age and heat. With second hand caps, you'll never know what they've gone through. It's a gamble to use them.
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby Radical Vision » 2018-2-02 @ 08:48

gdjacobs wrote:
Again, it depends. Quality Japanese capacitors will fail given the right combination of age and heat. With second hand caps, you'll never know what they've gone through. It's a gamble to use them.


Nope is not gamble, as i say go and find boards with such old,japan caps on them and measure them....
I did broke a SONY monitor 19 inch, when i did open it inside was all over japan caps, i did measure them and guess what they was all on 90%+ life and the monitor was from 1999. I did measure many boards that they have that type of caps, they are all in great condition..
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby Tetrium » 2018-2-02 @ 12:47

Radical Vision wrote:
gdjacobs wrote:
Again, it depends. Quality Japanese capacitors will fail given the right combination of age and heat. With second hand caps, you'll never know what they've gone through. It's a gamble to use them.


Nope is not gamble, as i say go and find boards with such old,japan caps on them and measure them....
I did broke a SONY monitor 19 inch, when i did open it inside was all over japan caps, i did measure them and guess what they was all on 90%+ life and the monitor was from 1999. I did measure many boards that they have that type of caps, they are all in great condition..

It is a gamble as you can't tell if the cap has seen extensive abuse before it found its way into your hands. You may be able to save some money though, if it works for you (and doesn't burn your house down or cause all kinds of explosions and damage), then why not? lol
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby Radical Vision » 2018-2-02 @ 14:41

Really.......................

You can see clearly that x2 ABIT boards with trash capacitors on them and guess what, they both are working, only the BE6 have one blown up cap, while the rest are all ok on first look. And this is example only on trash capacitors, then you can imagine how the japan caps will do 1000 times better no matter the abuse lol...........
My house on fire how so, as that machines are all off, i turn on some of them for some other hour and im here, so what fire you talking about....
So i will repeat is not a gamble... People even recap using capacitors from other boards that are not good brands, and they work, so in the end both of you are wrong..
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby gdjacobs » 2018-2-02 @ 15:19

Well, I guess Gigabyte, MSI, and ASUS should begin purchasing used Panasonic caps from the Shenzhen market, as they obviously are just as good as new product. Also, I have no idea how you figure you can measure that a cap has "90%+ life" left. Metrics from an SCR meter are a pass/fail measure. There is no equivalent to a battery discharge curve.
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby Radical Vision » 2018-2-02 @ 15:42

Sure they need to, they can also get old motherboards they make from socket 7, slot 1, 462, 929, AM2 and just slap on them AM4 sockets, PCI express, and they are good to go...............
The proof is here in the 2 pictures, but if no one can see that is his problem then...
If junk brand caps can last so long, the japan ones will last many times more...
If some of you can spend lot of money on new japan caps to recap the whole damn board i can`t, otherwise i will..
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Re: Best Socket A (462) Motherboard?

Postby gdjacobs » 2018-2-02 @ 16:09

I'll summarize my stance then quit.

Are Japanese capacitors more reliable and better performing? Yes.
Are Japanese capacitors indestructable? No.

Physics, chemistry, and engineering tell us that all aluminum electrolytic capacitors have a finite service life. An appropriate combination of heat (from ambient conditions, ripple, etc.) over time will cause capacitors to fail. All capacitors are specified with something called mean lifetime before failure (MLBF) for a given set of operational parameters. Japanese capacitors tend to be better in terms of reliability (consistently meeting or exceeding published MLBF) and performance (specified for higher ambient temperature, higher ripple, etc).

Japanese capacitors have certainly been known to fail under challenging conditions. SFF systems and laptops typically have poor airflow resulting in higher component temperatures and higher component failure rates (including capacitors). Japanese capacitors (NCC, for instance) have been known to fail in these circumstances.

Just this one example should illustrate why re-using caps is not a reliable method (unless you know exactly where the caps come from and how they were used).
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