Well, FreeDOS works too. ...except not from a USB stick for some reason (it's supposed to.) So I plugged in a USB floppy drive and with these helpful instructions for sound, managed to cram FreeDOS, the sound drivers, a RAMdisk utility, and classic DMP 3.01 onto a boot disk. Unfortunately I only had room for one module to play after all that, but hey, it's a proof of concept. 😉

Booted it up, fired up DMP which detected an original SB straight away, and after an AGONIZINGLY long load time of my 170kB module off apparently world's slowest 1.4MB disk, begun filling the room with glorious 8-bit hi-fi:

Okay, so the quality's not great. It's emulating an original SB (it seems to work in Pro mode too, but only mono) at 44kHz, 8 bit. There seems to be some weird distortion at low volume (high noise floor) but it doesn't scale, so I can crank it up and turn it down externally on my mixer. But hey, it works! I now have a functional, satchel-size DOS machine with sound. 😎

So what does this offer me over my Thinkpad 365ED which has a built-in ESS chip? Er.... not much actually. Well it does have a faster CPU and more RAM. And USB. So there's that.

I might stick to Linux on this one, or at least dual boot.

Incidentally installing a HDD & keeping this thing portable is going to be a pain in the butt as there's absolutely no power for it from the tiny PSU. Even my IDE->CF adapter needs a floppy-type power cable which this doesn't have.

EDIT: Tried Skyroads too, just to see if the FM emulation worked. It does! It sounds a little distorted, but it worked completely drama-free and played nice with the digi effects. I need to find a mixer for this sound chip so I can roll off some of the volume levels, I think it's running a LITTLE too hot and overdriving its outputs.

And major kudos to VIA for keeping all their driver downloads up instead of expunging them for anything more than 2 years old like some other companies like to.

Okay now I'm just torturing the poor thing.

...but yes, this worked 100% perfectly, including all crazy video effects & sound. Let's try something else:

NO WAY.

Yep, it ran this. This demo is THE HARDEST thing to get FM sound working on that I know of. It's finicky, it uses speed-sensitive detection routines, it REALLY wants a genuine OPL2, and half the time even if all the right conditions are met it just refuses anyway. It's voodoo. Seeing that "Adlib detected" screen is like catching a rare pokeymon, or something. Honestly, if you're not running a 386 or 486 under ~50MHz and a real ISA Adlib/SB/ESS, I'd say just forget it.

Except, for some goddamn reason, this 533MHz network appliance with PCI sound logic in the southbridge and a TSR driver that emulates the OPL, runs it. I don't even.

It didn't even sound all that bad! The distortion I heard in Skyroads was mostly gone (lower output levels) and the instruments themselves were handled competently. There was some weird slowdown associated with the video effects but the music playback itself? Can't fault it.

Anyway that's all for tonight. I have a bizarre physical problem with the thing that I have to fix, but I'll post more on that later. It's 4:30 AM and I need to get to bed. 😵

Does the GLX-Player and or XTC-Player, or INHERIT-Player work?

Thx 😀

xjas wrote:

Incidentally installing a HDD & keeping this thing portable is going to be a pain in the butt as there's absolutely no power for it from the tiny PSU. Even my IDE->CF adapter needs a floppy-type power cable which this doesn't have.

You could try an external USB drive, although when I tried that on my own thin client I found I could boot from a external USB CD-ROM drive or USB stick and install an OS to the external hard disk, but for some reason couldn't boot from that hard disk after installation was successful without the OS hanging...

Another option is to try an IDE to 2.5" laptop drive adapter and a 2.5" laptop drive. Some of those adapters can derive power from the IDE bus itself.

yawetaG wrote:

Kadath wrote:

Mine is booting without problems, maybe I can help, somehow - As said before, my model boot directly from CF attached to IDE by adapter, and OS is Windows CE. I've tried to swap CF with another one formatted and with pure MS-DOS installed on it, but it seems not to like it... it doesn't boot. Maybe a problem related to the other CF (1GB vs 128MB found aboard), must try with another one.

Could you confirm that all of the settings are managed through a setup wizard that is part of the Windows CE install, as that manual that was linked to seems to suggest?

Yes, and sorry for the late answer to your question - only today, thanks to user xjas work with its thin client, I've managed to find the correct BIOS key at boot. I didn't know the BIOS was a common one, on this machine, and this is a good new, because its options can allow us to do more on this little box.

xjas wrote:

Thanks for bringing this thread back up! So I plugged mine back in and discovered that pressing F12 at the "System is initalizin […]
Show full quote

Thanks for bringing this thread back up! So I plugged mine back in and discovered that pressing F12 at the "System is initalizing and testing" screen gets you immediately into a perfectly ordinary BIOS where you can auto-detect IDE HDDs and tell it to boot from them, or various other things including floppies, LS120/Zip drives, USB devices, etc. I have honestly NO idea why I didn't manage to figure this out the last time I was playing with it, but hey, can't complain.

I stuck in a Damn Small Linux USB stick and it booted right up:

CameraZOOM-20161208000958098.jpg

CameraZOOM-20161208001052500.jpg

What can I say, it's a really nice little machine! Everything seems to work fine.

Reported system specs are a 533MHz Via Samuel 2 (C3) with MMX+3DNOW, 128MB SDRAM, onboard Trident Cyberblade i1 w/8MB apparently on the AGP bus.

Also found these interesting options in the BIOS. Haven't tried how well they work yet. DSL says it's a VIA VT82C686 AC97 audio chipset. Some DOS testing is certainly going to be in order.

CameraZOOM-20161208004118798.jpg

Thanks xjas - awesome work. Thanks to your going deeper to find a solution, now I can try myself with my model (the same of yours). I think it is cool to see this software running on this client, and more cool is to find a 'SoundBlaster compatibility' option in the BIOS! Which software is the one who's checking OPL? Another question, have you ever seen the correct PCI slot riser for this model of thin client?

dr.zeissler wrote:

Does the GLX-Player and or XTC-Player, or INHERIT-Player work?

Thx 😀

Not familiar with those, but likely. Got a link?

Kadath wrote:

Yes, and sorry for the late answer to your question - only today, thanks to user xjas work with its thin client, I've managed to find the correct BIOS key at boot. I didn't know the BIOS was a common one, on this machine, and this is a good new, because its options can allow us to do more on this little box.

Literally all I did was mash likely keys until I found the one that got me into the BIOS. 😜 I was actually kind of stunned for a minute that that was all there was to it.

Kadath wrote:

Which software is the one who's checking OPL? Another question, have you ever seen the correct PCI slot riser for this model of thin client?

The Copper demo in the last pic is the same one that shows the "Adlib detected" screen. You can get it here. Good luck. 😜 (Note: the *sound detection* and *playback* routines work, but a lot of the rest of the demo doesn't - par for the course with this one.)

I'm trying to find a pic or a diagram of the PCI riser card but no luck so far. I've never seen that pinheader arrangement before, usually you just get a slot that you put a little adapter board with another slot at a 90 deg. angle. But I bet this one is pretty simple and probably used on more than one thing, so here's hoping they're not too hard to track down.

http://www.dcee.net/Files/Music/Player/iplay121.arj
http://www.dcee.net/Files/Music/Player/glx212.arj
http://www.dcee.net/Files/Music/Player/xtcp046.arj
It should be possible to use a LPT-DAC with the printer-port. But this only works with plain dos.

Doc

Here is some stuff you could test: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wqopcn1dq0d4kyk/AA … iFSTPj6WGa?dl=0

dr.zeissler wrote:

http://www.dcee.net/Files/Music/Player/iplay121.arj http://www.dcee.net/Files/Music/Player/glx212.arj http://www.dcee.net/Files/ […]
Show full quote

http://www.dcee.net/Files/Music/Player/iplay121.arj
http://www.dcee.net/Files/Music/Player/glx212.arj
http://www.dcee.net/Files/Music/Player/xtcp046.arj
It should be possible to use a LPT-DAC with the printer-port. But this only works with plain dos.

Doc

I can tell you right now that Iplay (Inertia Player, not "Inherit Player" 😜 ) will run on this thing fine - it's based on the same DSMI engine from DMP. I'll try out the other two later tonight.

I do wonder why a thin client, of all things, comes with a BIOS with AC'97 sound with explicit settings for legacy compatibility that includes AdLib support...could the manufacturer have intended it for some specific application?

Therefore, it seems that the compact flash that I found inside the thin client is the only one to boot properly, and analyzing it with Gparted in my main PC, Linux can not read it - even the file system type. Now I'll try to format another CF, I have another 1GB model and a SanDisk 2GB. To boot from USB which option have you used? USB-HDD? Because my Kingston 8GB do not really want to know to boot, on the thin client.

Here's the thin client motherboard, with and without the IDEtoCF adapter found directly inside (I'm sorry for the crappy quality of my smartphone cam) - you can't see well in these pics, but I've found 2-3 bulged caps, although the system works still pretty well:

After upgrading 64MB PC-133 RAM with a spare 256MB I had, finally inside the BIOS - I've to put new thermal paste under the heatsink, but system is cool by now, and things will only go better after laying of new paste:

And... finally found the problem regarding whatever CF I've put not bootable, although they were so - just look for the BIOS voice 'WindowsCE Boot From' and choose 'Normal' instead of AUTO, I've enabled 'Clear Registry' too, but then I've disabled it again - in these 2 pics you can see a working common CDRW attached on the internal single IDE (CDRW is powered externally) booting Haiku OS live CD. On-board audio has been recognized correctly, as LAN adapter too (and this is an older Haiku alpha release) - nice:

And here's the CF that I'm using in one of my 486 at home, booting without problems on the thin client, with MS-DOS 6.22 (audio error for the wrong soundboard configuration, original machine mounts SB16) - 688: Attack/Sub running on pure DOS, on this little machine!

It can be useless experimentation, but I think it is really nice to setup this forgotten little machine as working DOS/alternative OS (like Haiku)/Linux server box, isn't it?

^^ Nice going! 😁 It is a cool little box, I'm already thinking of things to do with mine (but I want that PCI RISER!) Haiku is a *great* OS for this if it has good support for the sound/video chip, it's so lightweight and responsive on just about everything. DSL seems to work really well too.

Does your IDE->CF adapter not use extra power? Mine takes a floppy-type power cable.

yawetaG wrote:

I do wonder why a thin client, of all things, comes with a BIOS with AC'97 sound with explicit settings for legacy compatibility that includes AdLib support...could the manufacturer have intended it for some specific application?

I'm guessing it's a pretty standard chipset they used on desktop boards too. It's a socket 370 setup... Thin clients are made to be cheap so I imagine paying extra for customized/feature-reduced firmware isn't very popular with the smaller scale manufacturers.

xjas wrote:

^^ Nice going! 😁 It is a cool little box, I'm already thinking of things to do with mine (but I want that PCI RISER!) Haiku is a *great* OS for this if it has good support for the sound/video chip, it's so lightweight and responsive on just about everything. DSL seems to work really well too.

Does your IDE->CF adapter not use extra power? Mine takes a floppy-type power cable.

That depends on the IDE->CF adapter. The one I picked up for my HP thin client doesn't need extra power.

yawetaG wrote:

I do wonder why a thin client, of all things, comes with a BIOS with AC'97 sound with explicit settings for legacy compatibility that includes AdLib support...could the manufacturer have intended it for some specific application?

I'm guessing it's a pretty standard chipset they used on desktop boards too. It's a socket 370 setup... Thin clients are made to be cheap so I imagine paying extra for customized/feature-reduced firmware isn't very popular with the smaller scale manufacturers.

The reason it surprises me is that the target consumers for thin clients are large companies and institutions (e.g. universities) who need cheap machines for wide deployment on a LAN, usually with netboot ability. They will usually prefer BIOSes that are somewhat locked down in features (especially considering some companies or institutions don't seem to have discovered the use of BIOS passwords to avoid unauthorized use yet 🤣 ). Socket 370 on a thin client is also interesting, most thin clients by large manufacturers make use of embedded computing solutions.

xjas wrote:

^^ Nice going! :D It is a cool little box, I'm already thinking of things to do with mine (but I want that PCI RISER!) Haiku is […]
Show full quote

^^ Nice going! 😁 It is a cool little box, I'm already thinking of things to do with mine (but I want that PCI RISER!) Haiku is a *great* OS for this if it has good support for the sound/video chip, it's so lightweight and responsive on just about everything. DSL seems to work really well too.

Does your IDE->CF adapter not use extra power? Mine takes a floppy-type power cable.

yawetaG wrote:

I do wonder why a thin client, of all things, comes with a BIOS with AC'97 sound with explicit settings for legacy compatibility that includes AdLib support...could the manufacturer have intended it for some specific application?

I'm guessing it's a pretty standard chipset they used on desktop boards too. It's a socket 370 setup... Thin clients are made to be cheap so I imagine paying extra for customized/feature-reduced firmware isn't very popular with the smaller scale manufacturers.

I've not found anything about that damned PCI pinout on the motherboard - is it for a mini-PCI slot or for a full one? The adapter IDE2CF I've found inside, with the Windows CE rom on 32MB CF, is without power connector - maybe it accepts only low voltage CFs (3.3v?), but until now mine models I've tried work well. Haiku is really clean and fast, it recognizes audio and networking, but not the right video adapter - though it works equally nice. Now, I'm trying to use wireless PCMCIA adapters I own with a CF Debian Lenny image. I own literally tons of PCMCIAs, bought time ago on a huge stock on eBay: firewire, USB 2.0, cabled networking, and many Wireless adapters: it would be nice to use them upgrading this little client - Haiku OS don't support them.

Here's some better pics of my thin client mod. TK-3350CE/P motherboard, after a good cleaning and pulled out of its little enclosure - last two pics are about the bulged caps I've unfortunately found: I've planned the needed swapping of these with new one. I'm currently running latest release of Damn Small Linux on it, installed on CF after being booted from USB stick (correct voice in BIOS is USB-HDD, in my case). I'll put the thin client, after caps repair, aside my retro-PCs at home, allowing me to connect to my 'main' PC or HP server I have in garage/lab. Can't find anything about correct PCI riser model, yet...

Updates! So I REALLY wanted a HDD without having to run a second PSU. I still have no idea what half the connectors on the board are for, but I found this up front next to the 2-pin main power jack (you can see where it is on Kadath's pics above):

An handy USB header! Fairly simple pinout - earth is on the left, +5V on the far right.

It's not the common pin spacing, it's the tiny one, so I had a bit of trouble finding a connector that would work with it. Here's what I came up with - two CD-ROM audio cables:
[image was here]
^^ I had to file down the keying on the tops to make them fit flush.

[image was here]
I don't always make perfect solder joints, but when I do, they are PERFECT SOLDER JOINTS. And you better believe I used heat shrink.

^^ Here's the final power cable. I took power from both USB ports together, so hopefully I have enough capacity to run a small laptop drive. Note there's no +12V.

This cheaply-made thing in a ziplock bag cost me $11, but it was in stock at a local store so I bit the bullet instead of saving $5 from Amazon & waiting a month. It does exactly what it says it does.

[image was here]
Incidentally I also totally overpaid for this garbage iron.

[image was here]
Erm, isn't this supposed to be 5V? I'm assuming it's reading low because there's no load drawing on it. Hopefully it'll be enough.

Ugly proof-of-concept assembled!

Does it work? Hell yes it does!

[image was here]
This drive even had DOS & Linux partitions on it that I'd forgotten about. Backup from an old machine that was decommissioned. Test successful!

Incidentally you'll note that I was using an ugly old CD-ROM cable above. That is because there is apparently NO standardization for whether or not pin 20 is present. 😠 My stylish, black, UDMA cable had the pin blocked...

[images were here]

Problem solved.

----------
Edit: Still zapping ph*tob^cket links when I find 'em in 2019. Sorry guys, too many pics in this post to attach. If you want to see a specific pic, just ask.

Here's another weird problem with my little machine, maybe one of you other owners can shed some light on how this is supposed to work. Basically the power switch is misaligned with the LED button ... thing. I'm not sure if I'm missing a piece, or if it's even supposed to have an external button at all (maybe it was intended to rely on network power-on/off.) Regardless, for my use having to go in there with a pen every time was getting pretty annoying.

2019 edit: pics removed due to hosting failure. There were too many to attach & I don't see the value in sorting through them since I un-did this "mod" a few months later anyway. It was just an ugly power switch hack job.

Great work xjas - nice 'trick' the one for 2.5 HDD mount! I'm currently using 1GB compact flash, with Damn Small Linux normal HD install.

Kadath wrote:

Great work xjas - nice 'trick' the one for 2.5 HDD mount! I'm currently using 1GB compact flash, with Damn Small Linux normal HD install.

Thanks! You haven't seen the final version yet - I went full-on Doc Brown. 😎

2019 edit: pics removed due to hosting failure (F.U. ph*tob^cket.) There were too many to attach & I don't see the value in sorting through them since I un-did this "mod" a few months later anyway. It was a really ugly "external" HDD mount that I thought was cool for about ten minutes after I made it, and then not at all afterwards. Good riddance.