VOGONS


First post, by Jade Falcon

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I'm setting up a server running 2k pro and I'm looking at my options for the web hosting software from circa 1999-2002ish.
And I'm not sure what to go with.

From what I know (witch is not a lot) there are 3 good options.
IIS (limited to 10 connections on pro for a web server)
KF Web server.
Old version of apache that can run on 2k.

What are your thoughts? Any ideas?

Also anyone know of any good era correct website design software? I could simply just use notepad or word, but that would be a lot more work then needed.

The site itself will be a fun small project and will be a simple old html 1,2 or 3 site with lots of GIF's for icons and whatnot that would fit in with any other home ran site of the era.

Thanks for any help!

Reply 1 of 20, by elianda

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Well there were a few editors out at that time:
Microsoft Frontpage
HoTMetaL
Netscape Composer
HotDog
Adobe PageMill or later GoLive

Retronn.de - Vintage Hardware Gallery, Drivers, Guides, Videos. Now with file search
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FTP Server - Driver Archive and more
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Reply 2 of 20, by Jade Falcon

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Thanks. I knew about front page, but that's about it for older stuff. I did not get into website building until about 5 years ago so my knowledge does not go back very far.

Last edited by Jade Falcon on 2016-08-09, 17:29. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 4 of 20, by yawetaG

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Jade Falcon wrote:

The site itself will be a fun small project and will be a simple old html 1,2 or 3 site with lots of GIF's for icons and whatnot that would fit in with any other home ran site of the era.

Thanks for any help!

Are you planning to actually connect this machine to the internet? If so, older hosting software has unpatched exploits and security issues present that may lead to the system getting compromised. The same goes for Win 2k. You may also want to avoid installing period Flash, Java, and Quicktime for the same reasons.
Avoid using Internet Explorer on the system, try to find a modern web browser that supports Adblock, noscript and Ghostery. Use a firewall and limit connections to only those programs that actually need a connection (if 2k includes Remote Desktop, check whether it's not enabled by default...). Nuke any unneeded services - permanently.

Personally I would be very wary about hooking up any older 32 bit Windows system to the internet for web hosting or regular web browsing (period correctness be damned). Just too risky.

Reply 5 of 20, by Zup

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Please don't use Frontpage or Dreamweaver. Too much garbage.

I liked Hotmetal, it had a useful view that placed tags and made code more visible.

I have traveled across the universe and through the years to find Her.
Sometimes going all the way is just a start...

I'm selling some stuff!

Reply 6 of 20, by Jade Falcon

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yawetaG wrote:

snimp.

I don't need help with security. But thanks for pointing out the obvious security concerns 🤣
I have a degree in information security among many other security certs and degrees and I work in the information security field and I'm more then aware of the risks involved. Not that new versions of windows and hosting apps are any better, jut less people out there that know how to exploit them. Take a look at EVGA's web server, its trebled or a lest it was the last time I spoke with Shane (there admin) but they don't have problems with it as hardly anyone knows how to exploit it and their security on the back in stops mostly everything before it hits the server.

I don't even use Flash, Java, and Quicktime nor will I be using anything like that on the server.
If it were to get compromised I'll just wipe the system and restore a hard backup. Witch is unlikely to happen, the server/network will be far more secure then most new systems if I connect this system to the internet. The hosting software is the only thing I'm wearied about witch is why I'm tying to find a older hosting app that still get sec updates.

But in all honesty I'd be more worried about the computer you made that post from far more then anything. Modern systems, especially ones that get used on a regular basis for internet tasks are at a much higher risk then a old system that is not used a on regular basis for internet tasks. But I'm not going to get into that here.
Lets stay on topic.

EDIT:
Sorry if my post came off as rude or arrogant.

Last edited by Jade Falcon on 2016-08-09, 17:32. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 7 of 20, by einr

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If you want to run something a little bit unusual there is also Roxen WebServer, it was a competitor to Apache in the late 90's and early 00's (and technically still is, I guess, though almost no-one uses it these days)

It has some unique features like RXML (a custom server-side markup language) and Pike (a custom scripting language) that might be fun to play around with if you're setting up a hobbyist old-school web server.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxen_(web_server)
http://www.drdobbs.com/roxen-web-server/199200698 (article from 2001)

To be period correct you would need to get hold of version 2.x, I think.

Reply 11 of 20, by gdjacobs

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Jade Falcon wrote:

thanks hoser! 🤣
Looks like it still supported too.

Hey, take off, eh!

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 12 of 20, by Jade Falcon

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gdjacobs wrote:
Jade Falcon wrote:

thanks hoser! 🤣
Looks like it still supported too.

Hey, take off, eh!

Your just jealous because I seen Jedi 17 times and killed that fleshy headed mutant in setter 16b.

Anyway thanks for all the ideas everyone. Oddly server setups aren't are popular and good documentation on anything aside from hardware is limited.

Reply 13 of 20, by BloodyCactus

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Thought Xitami web server was much better than roxen back in the day! I hosted many sites on xitami.

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Reply 14 of 20, by leileilol

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Personal Web Server 😜

Since you're targeting the 1999-2000 era, there's that abitelusive 1st Page 2000 program out there, which tried to flaunt some DHTML crap as a revolutionary thing.
Claris Homepage was also popular

apsosig.png
long live PCem

Reply 15 of 20, by SquallStrife

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Jade Falcon wrote:

I have a degree in information security among many other security certs and degrees and I work in the information security field and I'm more then aware of the risks involved.

Jade Falcon wrote:

Not that new versions of windows and hosting apps are any better, jut less people out there that know how to exploit them.

These two statements are incompatible with one another.

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Reply 16 of 20, by Ben333

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Jade Falcon wrote:
I don't need help with security. But thanks for pointing out the obvious security concerns :lol: I have a degree in information […]
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yawetaG wrote:

snimp.

I don't need help with security. But thanks for pointing out the obvious security concerns 🤣
I have a degree in information security among many other security certs and degrees and I work in the information security field and I'm more then aware of the risks involved. Not that new versions of windows and hosting apps are any better, jut less people out there that know how to exploit them. Take a look at EVGA's web server, its trebled or a lest it was the last time I spoke with Shane (there admin) but they don't have problems with it as hardly anyone knows how to exploit it and their security on the back in stops mostly everything before it hits the server.

I don't even use Flash, Java, and Quicktime nor will I be using anything like that on the server.
If it were to get compromised I'll just wipe the system and restore a hard backup. Witch is unlikely to happen, the server/network will be far more secure then most new systems if I connect this system to the internet. The hosting software is the only thing I'm wearied about witch is why I'm tying to find a older hosting app that still get sec updates.

But in all honesty I'd be more worried about the computer you made that post from far more then anything. Modern systems, especially ones that get used on a regular basis for internet tasks are at a much higher risk then a old system that is not used a on regular basis for internet tasks. But I'm not going to get into that here.
Lets stay on topic.

EDIT:
Sorry if my post came off as rude or arrogant.

Totally comes off as rude / strange... but anyway...

I don't know how you can say you're a professional and in the same breath say IIS from Windows 2000 is SAFER than modern solutions?

If you want to run a retro site, for optimal viewing on retro systems, simply make the pages view-able on old browsers. Hand code it. (VERY EASY, just google it) or get an old copy of front page. MS Word may even let you save a page as HTML.

I see no reason to run an old HTTP server, unless its just for fun. So if you can, run the current (or latest that will run) Apache. But yeah... like you said, its a personal server, so just keep an eye on it and do NOT have it tied into important parts of your home network. keep it isolated, if it must be on the internet. If it isn't online, you have no worries at all. Like others said, only have the services you need, and close all the ports you arent using.

Reply 17 of 20, by FuzzyLogic

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einr wrote:
If you want to run something a little bit unusual there is also Roxen WebServer, it was a competitor to Apache in the late 90's […]
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If you want to run something a little bit unusual there is also Roxen WebServer, it was a competitor to Apache in the late 90's and early 00's (and technically still is, I guess, though almost no-one uses it these days)

It has some unique features like RXML (a custom server-side markup language) and Pike (a custom scripting language) that might be fun to play around with if you're setting up a hobbyist old-school web server.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxen_(web_server)
http://www.drdobbs.com/roxen-web-server/199200698 (article from 2001)

To be period correct you would need to get hold of version 2.x, I think.

Wow. Someone who knows about Roxen Webserver. I am one of the few who use it to this day.

RXML templating and Pike are so easy to use. Roxen is actually a Pike application. It runs on Pike much like a Java app runs on a Java VM. The only complaints are that the documentation is terrible and there is no community. For some reason Roxen IS buries the download, and it looks like the link isn't working today: http://download.roxen.com/5.4/

But you can download it from github. https://github.com/pikelang/Roxen
You'll also need to download Pike: http://pike.lysator.liu.se/

Reply 18 of 20, by Jade Falcon

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Ben333 wrote:

I don't know how you can say you're a professional and in the same breath say IIS from Windows 2000 is SAFER than modern solutions?
.

I never said iis was safer on 2k, your missing the point, no system is safe, new or old. They both have there risks. I guess now that I reread my post it does not make the best since. I guess that's what I get for posting I a herry on a phone. And I'm doing it again 😒

If you want to discuss this further email me, I don't plain to come back to this theard. It severed its perpose.

Reply 19 of 20, by yawetaG

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Jade Falcon wrote:
I have a degree in information security among many other security certs and degrees and I work in the information security field […]
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I have a degree in information security among many other security certs and degrees and I work in the information security field and I'm more then aware of the risks involved. Not that new versions of windows and hosting apps are any better, jut less people out there that know how to exploit them. <snip>
If it were to get compromised I'll just wipe the system and restore a hard backup. Witch is unlikely to happen, the server/network will be far more secure then most new systems if I connect this system to the internet. The hosting software is the only thing I'm wearied about witch is why I'm tying to find a older hosting app that still get sec updates.

But in all honesty I'd be more worried about the computer you made that post from far more then anything. Modern systems, especially ones that get used on a regular basis for internet tasks are at a much higher risk then a old system that is not used a on regular basis for internet tasks. But I'm not going to get into that here.
Lets stay on topic.

EDIT:
Sorry if my post came off as rude or arrogant.

Don't worry, you sounded exactly how you should have, especially by claiming that your older system will be far more secure than any modern system (which is nonsense, you start working from the fact that your system is already unsafe (but not exploited) in the first place and harden from there). And despite not having 'any degrees in the information security field', the last time I had a compromised system was way back in the late 1990s, by my own fault too 🤣 .

Jade Falcon wrote:

Anyway thanks for all the ideas everyone. Oddly server setups aren't are popular and good documentation on anything aside from hardware is limited.

Not popular and good documentation limited, WTF? Are you sure you have actual experience in the information security field? There's tons of places where you could get advice, e.g. many forums on the world wide web that deal with the subject and books written by professionals.