VOGONS


486 Motherboards and components

Topic actions

First post, by MasterKano

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Hi =) I'm new.

I recently came across a couple of videos on youtube about 486 based computers, PhilsComputerLab and LazyGameReviews.

I thought to myself I've got a spare PC case which is not being used to why not attempt to build my own 486 system so I can play older games
as I was not really into computers until about 2008 and completely missed that era being born in 1992.

I've had a look at a few Motherboards:

PC Chips M918i for £30
Asus PVI-486SP3 for £160! (Seemed steep as I see someone got one from Austria for 5$)
TMC PAT48PG4 for £50
Chaintech 486SPM for £90!

It'll have a intel 80486 Dx2 (If there's a better chip can you advise me on it please)
Case will be a Corsair 650D.
Most of my searches have been based around Ebay UK. (I don't like the idea of paying shipping and customs charges from the States)

I'd appreciate some advice on the subject please?

Thank you!

Reply 1 of 21, by Tetrium

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
MasterKano wrote:
I've had a look at a few Motherboards: […]
Show full quote

I've had a look at a few Motherboards:

PC Chips M918i for £30
Asus PVI-486SP3 for £160! (Seemed steep as I see someone got one from Austria for 5$)
TMC PAT48PG4 for £50
Chaintech 486SPM for £90!

Man....why didn't I just sell the board instead of trying to power it up 🤣!
(Hint...loud bang).

But anyway, a 486 motherboard will be AT format (usually, might also be proprietary so you'd better avoid those) instead of ATX and you'll need mounting holes in the correct positions for the AT motherboard to be able to mount it inside your ATX case. Also those AT2ATX backplates are almost impossible to find for a reasonable price, but I consider this optional anyway.

I'd suggest you start doing some reading, building a 486 is actually quite the task, especially if you've got little experience with PCs from that era.
There's a link to Vogonswiki in my sig which contains a lot of information about computers that age.

Also there's tons of threads to be found here on Vogons, I've made a page on the Vogonswiki which may contain some of the more interesting threads concerning your interests. I'd say it's worth taking a look at 😀

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 2 of 21, by clueless1

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I recently went through a 486 build. I bought a VLB motherboard that included a 486dx2-66 and 4MB ram for $39 shipped. I already owned a VLB video card (which I bought new in 1994ish) and had an old ATX case that had some AT mounting holes. I bought an AT-to-ATX PSU power converter, an AT-to-PS2 keyboard adapter and a serial mouse (about another $20 total). Finally I bought an I/O controller card (ISA) for $15 so I could use a floppy and hard drive. That's the minimum you will need to get started. Keep in mind that you'll either have to get a proper AT case or do some modding to an ATX case to make it work. Power and turbo switches on AT motherboards are physical, and thus you can't use existing power buttons on ATX cases since they are momentary. The PSU adapter I bought has a physical switch attached, so I use that to power my machine on while I wait for a good AT case to fall in my lap.

Good luck!

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 3 of 21, by noshutdown

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

of the four 486 boards that i got pretty cheap in recent two years since i decided to put together a 486 rig, three are of unknown brand and models, and two are defective(although not totally dead). i am going to write a short introduction about them soon.

Reply 5 of 21, by Tetrium

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
MasterKano wrote:

I found a AOpen VI15G Socket 3 on Ebay for £25 minus, Take it or leave it?
Same as the one LGR used in his build video, seemed somewhat stable.

It's a nice board 😀

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 6 of 21, by TheMobRules

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

The VI15G is a somewhat rare case of a non-proprietary VLB board that uses a CR2032 battery, instead of those wretched barrels (or Dallas RTCs). It may be one of the reasons there are quite a few of these boards around in working condition, being free from the leaking battery problem.

Also, the SiS chipset it uses is a good performer I believe. And some versions of the board even have VRM for 3.3V CPU support.

Reply 7 of 21, by jheronimus

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Everyone's local market is different, but if I were you, I'd start by getting a complete system that has something you like and works — it would be a great starting point. Maybe get something with a case you like or a CPU+mobo that meets your requirements like having L2 cache or VLB.

Getting separate components is:

- more expensive;
- likely to give you compatibility issues;
- more time-consuming.

I'm just 2 years older than you, and as such, I've built my first AT machine just 9 months ago. 4 builds (and countless rebuilds and upgrades) later I still run into issues I could never anticipate. Which is why I really would advise against making your first build from scratch.

Also bear in mind that 486 won't be able to run all DOS games. So if you plan to only get one system, a Pentium or Pentium MMX-based machine (Socket 7 build) might be more preferable and in some cases, cheaper. People here also like AMD K6 III+ (a.k.a. Super Socket 7 build) which tends to come in ATX.

Another consideration is whether or not you'll want to have Windows 9x on that. A Pentium would really be a better build if you need Windows for networking, Daemon Tools, certain sound cards or just installing DOS games from anthology CDs (which are often really useful but require Windows).

MR BIOS catalog
Unicore catalog

Reply 8 of 21, by nforce4max

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

My advice is to take your time and research so you don't yolo into something you end up regretting like overpaying or ending up with something that isn't usable. Also it does help to buy extra parts as spares in case something is doa or goes bad later plus it will save a little money wise by having to buy later when prices are higher.

Lets face it 486 is awesome and is a lot of fun to build so don't hold yourself back from living the little retro dream 🤣 but going socket 7 is really Good for the money as you can get a 3 in 1 or if you are a bit lucky a 4 in 1 type of system emulating slower systems while still being good for win 9x games. The only catch for such a system is that you will need a AMD K6-3+ or a K6-2+ as the multiplier is adjustable in software with a little dos program, the next catch is that you will need a super 7 board that can use the later model AMD procs and that you need an agp slot or one of the nicer pci graphics cards. The best graphics card for the job is going to be 3DFX Voodoo 3 3000 agp as it offers a wide range of support both in dos and win 9x. If you are forced to settle with a pci only super 7 board getting a pci version of a 3DFX Voodoo 3 is going to be much more expensive and difficult but if you are willing to live without Glide support there are many choices with most being chicken feed price wise.

On a far away planet reading your posts in the year 10,191.

Reply 9 of 21, by oerk

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
nforce4max wrote:

Lets face it 486 is awesome and is a lot of fun to build so don't hold yourself back from living the little retro dream 🤣 but going socket 7 is really Good for the money as you can get a 3 in 1 or if you are a bit lucky a 4 in 1 type of system emulating slower systems while still being good for win 9x games. The only catch for such a system is that you will need a AMD K6-3+ or a K6-2+ as the multiplier is adjustable in software with a little dos program, the next catch is that you will need a super 7 board that can use the later model AMD procs and that you need an agp slot or one of the nicer pci graphics cards. The best graphics card for the job is going to be 3DFX Voodoo 3 3000 agp as it offers a wide range of support both in dos and win 9x. If you are forced to settle with a pci only super 7 board getting a pci version of a 3DFX Voodoo 3 is going to be much more expensive and difficult but if you are willing to live without Glide support there are many choices with most being chicken feed price wise.

Yeah, socket 7 systems are much easier to come by, much easier to work with, and all the later DOS titles (shooters) run well on it. A 486 is worth it for the coolness factor, but most of the time it doesn't help with speed sensitive games, so you might as well go Pentium. You also have a wide range of processors to chose from.

I disagree on the K6-3+ and the super socket 7 front. Just go with a nice midrange processor (Pentium 133-200MMX or K6), try it out, and go from there.

Reply 10 of 21, by brassicGamer

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
nforce4max wrote:

Also it does help to buy extra parts as spares in case something is doa or goes bad later plus it will save a little money wise by having to buy later when prices are higher.

^^ This.

But not in case stuff fails (although that is useful) - for troubleshooting. You will need duplicate CPUs, RAM and cards in case something goes wrong so you can just swap stuff out to work out what the hell the problem is. I spend more time getting my Socket 3 systems working than I do actually using them. Literally I'll put a working board away and the next time I go to use it: no POST.

Socket 3 is my favourite platform for no good reason other than it being as complicated as hell.

Check out my blog and YouTube channel for thoughts, articles, system profiles, and tips.

Reply 12 of 21, by MasterKano

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

So if I'm shooting for a socket 7 board what would I be aiming at?
The vendor which operates in the EU via Ebay is from Bulgaria, I've spoken to him and he seems to charge heavily for
motherboards that are working up to the Bios level at least , I tried to negotiate for the Asus board but he's staying firm.

A lot of the board that I'm after seem to be in the US, Small question here; What are your experiences with importing
Electronics from continent to continent? Shipping charges, damage, customs ect...

I'm going to some links here, I'm not too sure whether I'm allowed but it is Ebay UK:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Socket-3-486-Mother … gAAAOSwNKRXiOx3
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INTEL-SOCKET-3-486- … lUAAOSwCfdXpFuy
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/QDI-Socket-3-Mother … igAAOSwuzRXdNmU

What are your opinions on those?

I'm cautious about the PC Chips board because of people who have been sold false cache soldered to the board as well as the ALI chips on the board(?)
I'm not even sure who QDI are and the other board is unlisted Manufacturer wise.

Thank you for all the advice so far by the way, the links aspecially have been useful, Vogons Wiki as well!

Reply 13 of 21, by jheronimus

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Don't you have any local online classifieds (like Craigslist or something)? I mean, everyone's local market is different, but I don't think a Socket 7 or even a Socket 3 would be impossible to find locally.

Also, sometimes just posting on a big local online forum (not necessarily IT-related) can yield something interesting

MR BIOS catalog
Unicore catalog

Reply 14 of 21, by MasterKano

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I've tried Gumtree but the search function brings up nothing using common terms such as Vintage, Retro or uncommon like the actual socket version. I'm confused as to where to start but Ebay is a 95% safe place to buy oldish hardware
So its the first place I start, I'm going to try looking in local computer repair/hardware outlets as well as charity shops to see if I can pick up a whole PC and upgrade after testing. It's also about finding vendors I can trust because I'm
not in favour of getting burned by a dodgy dealer.

According to your locations you're in Moscow, there are a few listings in the Russian Federation. Whats your experience with buying parts in Russia?

Reply 15 of 21, by jheronimus

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
MasterKano wrote:

According to your locations you're in Moscow, there are a few listings in the Russian Federation.

I'm probably the wrong person to ask — I've actually never sourced any part outside of Moscow. Regular Russian postal services are notoriously bad (e.g. damaged shipments, takes too long, can be confusing to deal with), which is why I always stayed away from shipping anything. There are premium delivery services, but all in all, shipping anything domestically or from abroad is just too much of a hastle for me. Besides, local prices are just much better than eBay — unless you deal with people who consider a common Pentium MMX machine a "rare vintage collector's item".

Whats your experience with buying parts in Russia?

Russians are hoarders by nature. 🤣 People often keep stuff they never use for a long time. Which is probably why we don't have thrift stores like people do in UK or USA — only stores that sell second hand clothes. So, everybody thinks they're really gonna need this Pentium Pro machine someday. And when they finally understand that they won't, I try to find them. 😀

It's really time-consuming, but for me it's part of the fun.

-it's an easy way to get your first Pentium machine with an S3 card, a Soundblaster clone (ESS or Crystal) of some sorts for free or really cheap (a normal price for such a machine would be 500-1000 rubles, or about 7,5-15 USD). Home users in Russia are unlikely to have pre-486 stuff, but it happens, too. So, basically, I never consider buying a machine for more than 15 bucks. A higher price would only make sense for a branded machine, like IBM, Compaq or HP.

- same goes for more advanced sound cards and video cards. This is where you need to be lucky: people who really cared for music and graphics back then usually know that collectors are after these parts. However, I have Voodoo 1, 2, 3 and Banshee for 15 bucks in total. I once got an AWE32 for 70 cents from a guy who thought it was a videocard.

- home users actually are a safe way to get working parts even if they can't test them. If a guy had an ISA Soundblaster laying around for 20 years, that means that at some point he just swapped it for an upgrade. If it weren't working back then, he would have thrown it out already. Basically, the only non-working parts I ever got were from a company that wanted to clear their storage.

Besides, I enjoy meeting real people. Many vendors get nostalgic once they learn that I'm buying their stuff for playing DOS games. We talk, and this way you can learn something about the computer market in the past. What was considered "cool" and high-end? Was the person proud of having this hardware back then?

Also, maybe it's just my luck, but I often visit weird places in my search for parts. 🤣 I once bought a Gravis Phoenix joystick at a stripclub's parking lot pretty late at night. My first Pentium MMX machine belonged to a son of an FSB officer (that's Russian CIA), and I had to get it from a place built for FSB people to live (which you normally would never get to see). Recently I got a CRT screen from a guy who looked like a rare mix of a hippie and a biker, ran a tattoo parlor at home and had a bunch of singing birds. My girlfriend always asks me about the parts I get because she loves the stories of how and where I got them.

MR BIOS catalog
Unicore catalog

Reply 16 of 21, by Tetrium

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
jheronimus wrote:
I'm probably the wrong person to ask — I've actually never sourced any part outside of Moscow. Regular Russian postal services a […]
Show full quote
MasterKano wrote:

According to your locations you're in Moscow, there are a few listings in the Russian Federation.

I'm probably the wrong person to ask — I've actually never sourced any part outside of Moscow. Regular Russian postal services are notoriously bad (e.g. damaged shipments, takes too long, can be confusing to deal with), which is why I always stayed away from shipping anything. There are premium delivery services, but all in all, shipping anything domestically or from abroad is just too much of a hastle for me. Besides, local prices are just much better than eBay — unless you deal with people who consider a common Pentium MMX machine a "rare vintage collector's item".

Whats your experience with buying parts in Russia?

Russians are hoarders by nature. 🤣 People often keep stuff they never use for a long time. Which is probably why we don't have thrift stores like people do in UK or USA — only stores that sell second hand clothes. So, everybody thinks they're really gonna need this Pentium Pro machine someday. And when they finally understand that they won't, I try to find them. 😀

It's really time-consuming, but for me it's part of the fun.

-it's an easy way to get your first Pentium machine with an S3 card, a Soundblaster clone (ESS or Crystal) of some sorts for free or really cheap (a normal price for such a machine would be 500-1000 rubles, or about 7,5-15 USD). Home users in Russia are unlikely to have pre-486 stuff, but it happens, too. So, basically, I never consider buying a machine for more than 15 bucks. A higher price would only make sense for a branded machine, like IBM, Compaq or HP.

- same goes for more advanced sound cards and video cards. This is where you need to be lucky: people who really cared for music and graphics back then usually know that collectors are after these parts. However, I have Voodoo 1, 2, 3 and Banshee for 15 bucks in total. I once got an AWE32 for 70 cents from a guy who thought it was a videocard.

- home users actually are a safe way to get working parts even if they can't test them. If a guy had an ISA Soundblaster laying around for 20 years, that means that at some point he just swapped it for an upgrade. If it weren't working back then, he would have thrown it out already. Basically, the only non-working parts I ever got were from a company that wanted to clear their storage.

Besides, I enjoy meeting real people. Many vendors get nostalgic once they learn that I'm buying their stuff for playing DOS games. We talk, and this way you can learn something about the computer market in the past. What was considered "cool" and high-end? Was the person proud of having this hardware back then?

Also, maybe it's just my luck, but I often visit weird places in my search for parts. 🤣 I once bought a Gravis Phoenix joystick at a stripclub's parking lot pretty late at night. My first Pentium MMX machine belonged to a son of an FSB officer (that's Russian CIA), and I had to get it from a place built for FSB people to live (which you normally would never get to see). Recently I got a CRT screen from a guy who looked like a rare mix of a hippie and a biker, ran a tattoo parlor at home and had a bunch of singing birds. My girlfriend always asks me about the parts I get because she loves the stories of how and where I got them.

I like how you make the best of your local market, despite its drawbacks, but you also see the options you have 😀

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 18 of 21, by feipoa

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
MasterKano wrote:
I've had a look at a few Motherboards: […]
Show full quote

I've had a look at a few Motherboards:

PC Chips M918i for £30
Asus PVI-486SP3 for £160! (Seemed steep as I see someone got one from Austria for 5$)
TMC PAT48PG4 for £50
Chaintech 486SPM for £90!

MasterKano wrote:

Any opinions on PC Chips M919?

PC Chips M918 is junk. The cache performance is abysmal.

PC Chips M919 is less junky than the M918, but the VLB performance is horrible, if you can even get it working well. To get decent performance out of this board, you need to locate a hard-to-find proprietary cache module for it. This board also forces an automatic 2/3 PCI multiplier when using a 40+ MHz FSB, which really hurts graphic performance.

PVI-486SP3 has the limitation of slower PCI performance due to VLB-to-PCI bridge. It cannot accept 1024K of cache, but has a ps/2 mouse port.

Chaintech 486SPM is a nice board. Some have the PS/2 mouse circuitry already included. Those which do not can be easily adapted. Board can take 1024K of double-banked cache. PCI performance is good. It has a solid SiS 496/497 chipset. This board would get my vote.

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 19 of 21, by MasterKano

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
feipoa wrote:
PC Chips M918 is junk. The cache performance is abysmal. […]
Show full quote
MasterKano wrote:
I've had a look at a few Motherboards: […]
Show full quote

I've had a look at a few Motherboards:

PC Chips M918i for £30
Asus PVI-486SP3 for £160! (Seemed steep as I see someone got one from Austria for 5$)
TMC PAT48PG4 for £50
Chaintech 486SPM for £90!

MasterKano wrote:

Any opinions on PC Chips M919?

PC Chips M918 is junk. The cache performance is abysmal.

PC Chips M919 is less junky than the M918, but the VLB performance is horrible, if you can even get it working well. To get decent performance out of this board, you need to locate a hard-to-find proprietary cache module for it. This board also forces an automatic 2/3 PCI multiplier when using a 40+ MHz FSB, which really hurts graphic performance.

PVI-486SP3 has the limitation of slower PCI performance due to VLB-to-PCI bridge. It cannot accept 1024K of cache, but has a ps/2 mouse port.

Chaintech 486SPM is a nice board. Some have the PS/2 mouse circuitry already included. Those which do not can be easily adapted. Board can take 1024K of double-banked cache. PCI performance is good. It has a solid SiS 496/497 chipset. This board would get my vote.

Would this cache work for the M919?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IDT-cache-memory-25 … 7cAAOSwGvhULarU