SBPro2 is the sweetspot for dos games. everything just works.
The Audician 32 (YMF718) has SBPro2 support with fully functional MPU-401 header but it has other problems like game freezing and missing sounds.

I'm waiting for a ES1688 based card with non-PNP, SBPro2, MPU-401 (no bugs), great OPL3.
I'll do a thorough testing to see how it compares to the YMF chip.

James-F wrote:

SBPro2 is the sweetspot for dos games. everything just works. The Audician 32 (YMF718) has SBPro2 support with fully functional […]
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SBPro2 is the sweetspot for dos games. everything just works.
The Audician 32 (YMF718) has SBPro2 support with fully functional MPU-401 header but it has other problems like game freezing and missing sounds.

I'm waiting for a ES1688 based card with non-PNP, SBPro2, MPU-401 (no bugs), great OPL3.
I'll do a thorough testing to see how it compares to the YMF chip.

To be fair, the game freezing and missing sounds issue are (as far as I know) limited to one game each. But the Audician does seem more prone to speed sensitivity issues than a real SB. Looking forward to your analysis of the ES1688.

Currently on the test list is:
* Test functionality of the MPU-401 header with a DreamBlaster S1, including hanging not bug.
* Compare OPL quality to YMF719 or Nuked-OPL, including 440Hz accuracy.
* Test Duke Nukem II missing sound effects.
* Test game freezing like Supaplex.
* Jill SB auto detection.
* Record and compare sound quality, lowpass filer, noise floor.

I'm open for suggestions.

I tried my Diamond DB on an SB Pro clone called the "Super Sound Origins" by SIC Resource. It uses the Opti 924 chipset and has a real OPL3. This is one of many different clones labeled Diamond MF-009. I profiled the card here: Re: Bought these (retro) hardware today

The GM from the Diamond DB works without stuttering on Duke 3D using the SB Pro setting. So I think that Sound Blaster 16 compatibility may be part of the problem.

I'm going to test with my SS7 box to see if the BX chipset isn't part of the problem too.

UPDATE: I have a CT3900 with a Diamond DB in my SS7 box, so I just tested with that. This is a K6-3+ at 550MHz.

First, I have sound set to "Sound Blaster" and not "AWE32."

When I use 8 voices at 44KHz, there is the same kind of stuttering that I saw from my BX box.

However, when I use 4 voices at 22KHz, the stuttering largely goes away--just a brief hiccup now and then. This didn't happen with the CT2760. Both have DSP 4.13.

Shot in the dark here, but do you think you may have a crappy capacitor affecting that MIDI port? I recapped my old sound blasters when I got them and the quality improved overall.

clueless1 wrote:

To be fair, the game freezing and missing sounds issue are (as far as I know) limited to one game each. But the Audician does seem more prone to speed sensitivity issues than a real SB. Looking forward to your analysis of the ES1688.

SB16 MIDI will misbehave in other games too - Tie Fighter for example. I don't have a complete list. It's not a bad cap, it's just the way the SB16 rolls.

It doesn't stop me from using and loving a CT2230 in one of my machines though - I just load a sound font or use my SCC-1 for the few games this problem impacts. It's a great sounding / performing card otherwise I think.

I want to further investigate this.

As badmojo already pointed, setting the sample rate to 11kHz and the stuttering is gone.
Another thing I've noticed that the setup will produce stereo sound with the SBPro settings even though the SB16 does not support the SBPro stereo algorithm.
So it might not be a MPU-401 bug, but a problem with Duke3D drivers.

Tie Fighter CD freezes for long seconds between cut scenes and song changes.

EDIT:
Well, looking at the MIDI data coming out of the SB16 with MIDI-OX, I can see nothing abnormal. 😐

If the problem disappears in Windows DOS mode, then there must be a way to get it right in real DOS. It was a long time ago that I did this so I can't remember the details. I noticed that Duke3D had MUCH higher framerates in Windows DOS mode compared to real DOS mode, especially in Hi-Res modes. I seem to remember it had something to do with bad buffering with the video card. Windows set this all up in order to improve video performance but DOS doesn't. There are some DOS programs around to set this up, I remember when I ran these programs in DOS, the framerate was much the same as it was in Windows. Certain BIOSes also had some tweaks in order to improve the video performance.

I'll research it again as it was a long time ago that I did this and post the programs. Hopefully this might help with the sound stuttering as the system runs much better when the video has been optimised.

I found it in this post, it's Fastvid:

RE: Deep Thought - VESA Fix Utility Listing

I've just noticed that it only works on Pentium Pros and above.

http://rtk.mirrors.pdp-11.ru/_x86/Drivers/CPU … 110/INSTALL.TXT

If it doesn't help with the sound stuttering, at least it should help with your framerates.

Whoa... So I have a SB AWE64 Value and it ALSO stutters when playing Duke Nukem 3D with my SC-55 ( MPU).

I thought it was only a SB16 problem. What the hell, Creative/3D Realms?

Also tried Mortal Kombat 2 - starts working, but as soon as you hit F1 to start, it hard locks.

Yes, the AWE 32/64 has the same topology as the SB16, it is basically a fancy upgraded SB16 Vibra.
Why didn't you like the CT2230?
The only solution to the SB16/32/64 family is a separate MPU-401 card, you have the YMF71x, use it.

Also tried Mortal Kombat 2 - starts working, but as soon as you hit F1 to start, it hard locks.

Does it freeze when not set to use the SCC1?
I think MK2 goes straight to port 330.

James-F wrote:

Yes, the AWE 32/64 has the same topology as the SB16, it is basically a fancy upgraded SB16 Vibra. Why didn't you like the CT223 […]
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Yes, the AWE 32/64 has the same topology as the SB16, it is basically a fancy upgraded SB16 Vibra.
Why didn't you like the CT2230?
The only solution to the SB16/32/64 family is a separate MPU-401 card, you have the YMF71x, use it.

Also tried Mortal Kombat 2 - starts working, but as soon as you hit F1 to start, it hard locks.

Does it freeze when not set to use the SCC1?
I think MK2 goes straight to port 330.

The CT2230 has a lot of background hiss. Also I thought the AWE64 didn't have the same issue.

I wasn't able to get the AWE64 to work with the YMF71x

I might just use the CT2230 as the dedicated MPU401 interface. Might be able to use it for it's OPL3 as well, and use the AWE64 for digital audio and it's built in wavetable. Might be easier since the CT2230 is not PnP.

GuyTechie wrote:

The CT2230 has a lot of background hiss.

What mixer chip you have CT1745A or CT1745A-S?
The CT1745A-S is quieter.

There are at least THREE revisions of the CT2230 I know of, all can come with DSP 4.11 or 4.13, CT1745A or CT1745A-S.
* Oldest to newest, by bottom left codes.

019413

029417

049432

If you got a CT2230 49432, DSP 4.13, and CT1745A-S mixer chip, you're lucky.
Take a look at the CT2290 revisions which are basically a further upgrade of the latest CT2230 (49432) with the IDE controllers stripped.

I confirm the freeze in MK2 with the SB16 but only with the floppy version, they fixed it in the CD version.
No freeze with the YMF71x with any MK2 version.

This is what I have:

http://imgur.com/a/ny9fR

It has a CT1745-S with DSP v4.11

The bottom left says 029417 but it doesn't match your 029417. In fact, in the highlighted red, I have a capacitor where pictured there isn't.

Edit:
I got the AWE64 and SB16 working together without conflict.

AWE64
A220
I5
D1
H5
P300

SB16
A240
I7
D1
P330

This way, all digital audio goes through AWE64. SB16 is only used as MPU401 interface for my SC-55. However, I can't use the OPL3 on the SB16 because games set to A220 for digital audio (Sound Blaster) would also send GM music to the AWE64.

GuyTechie wrote:

This is what I have:
http://imgur.com/a/ny9fR
It has a CT1745-S with DSP v4.11

1745-S ? it is a third variant I am not aware of, don't know if it is quiet or not.

Can you please post and image your mixer settings?
I have tested and found that AGC and MIC are the primary cause for noise, without them I can get 76db of SNR which is absolutely silent from a 1745A which considered to be noisy.
Remove all X marks from the mixer and all slider to zero, except Voice, Midi and Master, use x1 on bottom gains and use Line-Out not SPK-OUT.
These settings are optimal for any SB16 to maximize SNR.

Line-Out should see a proper load of 10KΩ (10,000Ω) by standard, so connect to a proper load like a stereo system or computer speakers.
Do NOT connect headphones to the line out, they are 16Ω-32Ω (typical) which will not properly load the SB line-out and you'll lose bass frequencies (confirmed) or distort the DAC.
If you do want to use headphones they have to be connected to a proper headphones-out on your stereo system or the computer speakers, but not directly to the SB card.

GuyTechie wrote:

Edit:
I got the AWE64 and SB16 working together without conflict.
This way, all digital audio goes through AWE64. SB16 is only used as MPU401 interface for my SC-55. However, I can't use the OPL3 on the SB16 because games set to A220 for digital audio (Sound Blaster) would also send GM music to the AWE64.

If you read the "Pairing SB16 with other cards" thread you already know only select few games force the use of port 220 for FM sounds.
Mortal Kombat 2 and Lost Vikings.
So maybe use your SB16 for sounds and the AWE64 for MPU-401 only? 😀

James-F wrote:

1745-S ? it is a third variant I am not aware of, don't know if it is quiet or not. […]
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1745-S ? it is a third variant I am not aware of, don't know if it is quiet or not.

Can you please post and image your mixer settings?
I have tested and found that AGC and MIC are the primary cause for noise, without them I can get 76db of SNR which is absolutely silent from a 1745A which considered to be noisy.
Remove all X marks from the mixer and all slider to zero, except Voice, Midi and Master, use x4 on bottom gains and use Line-Out not SPK-OUT.
These settings are optimal for any SB16 to maximize SNR.

Sorry, I don't mean to ignore you - just been busy. Right now I have it configured where the AWE64 is the main sound card, so the drivers and mixer settings will affect the AWE and not the SB16.

I'll stick a blank SD card into my IDE adapter and install DOS and try to set up the SB16 by itself - I'm interested to see if I can get rid of the hiss without making the master volume too low

If I can get the SB16 to be quieter, I'll contemplate on making it my main card - though why does it seem so wrong to make the AWE64 only a MPU interface? :p

GuyTechie wrote:

If I can get the SB16 to be quieter, I'll contemplate on making it my main card - though why does it seem so wrong to make the AWE64 only a MPU interface? :p

Because it doesn't have a wavetable header and is UART only! My humble opinion only of course but the whole dual card setup is more trouble than its worth - just track down a nice clone!

I have a nice clone. That's how I run my wavetable card. It goes well with my CT2770.

James-F wrote:

This is what I have: http://imgur.com/a/ny9fR It has a CT1745-S with DSP v4.11 1745-S ? it is a third variant I am not aware of, […]
Show full quote

This is what I have:
http://imgur.com/a/ny9fR
It has a CT1745-S with DSP v4.11
1745-S ? it is a third variant I am not aware of, don't know if it is quiet or not.

Can you please post and image your mixer settings?
I have tested and found that AGC and MIC are the primary cause for noise, without them I can get 76db of SNR which is absolutely silent from a 1745A which considered to be noisy.
Remove all X marks from the mixer and all slider to zero, except Voice, Midi and Master, use x4 on bottom gains and use Line-Out not SPK-OUT.
These settings are optimal for any SB16 to maximize SNR.

I have a CT2230 with the 01943 production number, a 4.11 DSP and a CT1745A. I regard it as the noisiest SB16/AWE32 I have. I will try these settings and see if it helps.

Are these issues reproducible with the demo / shareware versions?

MK2 and Tie Fighter have demo versions. Duke Nukem 3D has a shareware version, so does Jill I believe. Not sure about Supalex? Hexen II demo?

Might makes things easier to zip up everything for easy testing.