nemail wrote:

Hey! […]
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Hey!

So i've bought an IBM PS/2 Model 30 on ebay for about 80€.
Now first, I was kind of disappointed because I thought it will be a 286 (which I was looking for for a while) but now, after some googling, I'm pretty sure it is an 8086 (haven't received it yet).
However, an 8086 will be fun too and I'm excited again to finally receive it.

I was wondering in the meantime about a few things:
-That model seems to have two 3,5 inch 720kb floppy drives. Can I use 1,44MB floppies and format them with 720KB?
-Is there any reference software or something I'll need to get into BIOS setup and/or to get the system running?
-This system most certainly does not have a hard disk. Do i keep a floppy with DOS in one of the drives most of the time?
-I thought about buying this: https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/product/lo-tech-isa … mpactflash-pcb/
good idea/bad idea?
-memory isn't upgradeable from what i've read so far. so i'll have to stick with 640KB i guess?
-what OS would you advise? Something about DOS 4/5? plus some old windows version?
-any other advices?

thanks! my first 8086 ever! 😀

Single / dual 720K drive(s) indicate that it is an 8086. I just bought an 80286 Model 30 last week with a single 1.44MB drive, which should be here tomorrow. The upside to this model is that it is, I think, the only one that used ISA expansion slots, rather than MCA. The downside is that there are no molex power connectors, so installing a hard drive is out of the question, unless you're well versed in soldering and tap off the power supply, or use Lo-Tech's option.

You can find the reference disk for your model here: http://www.walshcomptech.com/selectpccbbs/
And here: http://www.ibmfiles.com/ps2disketteimages.htm

yeah i read that about the isa bus too!
i've got one of those old special Hard disk drives for the model 30 with that weird connector. is the controller for the hdd already onboard in my 8086 or did that come with the 286 model?

The PS/2 model 30 (IBM machine type 8530) with 8086 8MHz CPU has an onboard hard disk controller. The drives are called ESDI and the single connector has data and power pins combined. But as the machine also scans for opt ROMs one can upgrade it very easy with SCSI and IDE controllers that have their own BIOS.

Don't worry what it's not the 286 model!
The 8086 is a fine fine machine!

These machines can also be upgraded with a NEC V30 CPU which increases the speed a lot.

FGB wrote:

The PS/2 model 30 (IBM machine type 8530) with 8086 8MHz CPU has an onboard hard disk controller. The drives are called ESDI and the single connector has data and power pins combined. But as the machine also scans for opt ROMs one can upgrade it very easy with SCSI and IDE controllers that have their own BIOS.

Yes, but how do you supply power to SCSI / IDE drives without molex power connectors? I have a Sigma Data IDE adapter with a built-in molex power connector, but it's Micro Channel Architecture.

There are Seagate SCSI controllers (and also some Future Domain made IIRC) that have pins for the power (floppy power header to be precise). One does need to usw an adaptor to the molex connector for the hard disk. Otherwise one has to mod the PSU cables. It's an easy job but of course not soo easy without any equipement or knowledge.

You could also tap the 12 & 5V off of any ISA expansion card you plan to put in there, doesn't have to be strictly from the hard disk controller - cut off a molex out of an old broken PSU and solder to the power buses of the ISA card. There are also MFM controllers with built-in power headers (like the 5150XL) if you choose to go down that route too.

With the IBM PS/2 Model 8530 30 8086 systems I have owned in the past I:
- Used INTERLNK/SVR to map a HDD from another DOS system with a LapLink cable: works great: very cheap: not complicated.
- Used a Seagate ST-01 plus ST-296N. I ran the 50PIN SCSI cable through an open ISA slot and hooked the HDD up to an extra AT PSU. Works great: expensive (especially with external 5.25" SCSI housing with internal PSU + external cable): hard to find the parts: complicated with HDD jumpers / SCSI ID / PCB jumpers.
- Used an OEM IBM ESDI HDD: slow: prone to failure: plug & play.

The reference disk for these models are very limited. There is no BIOS and no MCA configuration.

I also used 8BIT ISA cards: SB 1.5 / SB 2.0 / LAPC-I / MIF-IPC-A (clone).

I upgraded some with a NEC V30 and Intel 8087: the NEC V30 helps (a bit). The Intel 8087 only with SimCity.

Many games support MCGA. CGA games work. EGA/VGA games do not.

I also plugged Paradise 8BIT and Trident and some other brand 16BIT (working on 8BIT) VGA cards in.

I always sold these machines as I ultimately got frustrated with the slow speed of MCGA/VGA games like Civilization / Centurion / Thexder and so on.

Coincidentally I found the keys to this model today. Let me know in case you want them for the price of the stamp(s).

the 8086 model will only support 720kb floppy drives. If you add a hard drive, it can only be 20mb.

Best option is to use the xt-ide card. The stock hard drives are so unreliable it is sad. A hard-card is another option, but imho xt-ide is really the way to go on these machines.

If you are feeling adventurous, you can buy a 286 model 30 motherboard (and isa riser), and swap them out. I've done this on both 30's and 25's.

Hi

is the ESDI cable already located in the PS/2 if there are two floppy drives built in or would I have to get that cable from somewhere?
Soldering is no problem, however I'd like to make as few irreversible changes as possible so that would only be my last option.
Honestly I'd either prefer the lo-tech ISA CompactFlash card or use the original hard disk (but here I'd be missing the front cover when I remove one of the floppy disk drives.

Thanks for the Reference disk links!

I'm planning to upgrade this system with some VGA adapter, maybe the NEC V30 and maybe(!) some sound card.

@PeterLi: what keys do you mean? Thanks for the offering, in any case!

Can I use 1,44MB floppy disks with the 720KB floppy drives when I format them accordingly?

What about the memory upgrade? Do I have to stick with 640KB?
I don't want to put a 286 board in, as I want to keep this system to be a 8086.
What (D)OS should I install?

thanks!
nemail

"plus some old windows version?" not with a 8086
"what keys do you mean?" to open the case

nemail wrote:

I don't want to put a 286 board in, as I want to keep this system to be a 8086.

It seems to me that if you're going to use a NEC V30 and a VGA adapter, you're already diverging from the original architecture significantly.

What (D)OS should I install?

Why don't you decide what you actually want to do with this system, and then decide what OS you need? If you're not planning to do anything with it, then the choice of OS hardly matters.

OpenGEM or GEOS (aka Breadbox Ensemble) might "work", but I can't see much point in using either of them.

Hi

I thought Windows 1.x or 2.x could maybe work on the 8086? If not, that's no Problem. In that case I'll stick with DOS, I guess.
@Keys: I hope I'll get the keys with the System. If not, I'll come back to your Offering if you'll still be willing to give them to me (thanks again!)

@Diverging from the original architecture:
For me, it is a whole different Story, whether I upgrade a System with a "new" CPU/graphics adapter or Change the whole System board. Besides, the NEC V30 is an Option I might take at some Point but certainly not immediately and not for sure. VGA is simply because of the not wide-spreaded MCGA Standard which Comes with the onboard adatper.
Also, I'm planning to build a 286 System sometime (already got the Motherboard + CPU), so that's another reason for me to stick with the 8086 board and CPU in this System.

@OS: For me, it's the other way round: The installed OS will define what I will be doing/will be able to do with the System. I've got plenty of other Retro Systems to tinker with, so I don't have to cover any specific use case with this System. I'm mainly into tinkering with the Computers and installing and trying out old OSes, trying to get peripherals to work and on some of the Systems playing old games.
I guess I'll try out some MS-DOS Versions, starting with 3.3, which initially introduced IBM PS/2 Support. I'm wondering if DOS 6.22 will run.
Maybe I'll also try to refresh my Qbasic 4.5 knowledge and code some stuff.

I might also try out some interesting alternative OSes, if you have any suggestions?

I've never had an 8086, the slowest machine I've ever owned was a 286, I'm already curious how "slow" the System will be 😀

I have recently spent quite a bit of time learning what You can and can't do with an XT 8088 based system. I probably still have a lot more to learn.

You can use a 1.44mb floppy drive but I could not get 1.44mb floppy's to format as 720k, just 720k disks only worked. I have an Amiga 500 and lots of DSDD disks still.
I have built one of those Lo-tech CF boards and once You get that working You don't really need a floppy drive anymore as You can just remove the CF card
and plug it into Your main PC and copy whatever You want to it.
Referring to Windows 1 or 2 as an OS is a massive stretch nowdays. It is really just a DOS program. Even Amiga Workbench blows it out of the water and that came out years earlier.
Windows 1 works fine even on a XT 8088 so will also be ok on a 8086.
If Your motherboard has standard ISA slots You can use an SB16 (I have a CT2770)in the 8 bit slot and run the PC speaker through it for better sound as well as some later games
that support adlib sound.
Many 16 bit VGA cards will work but some have poor EGA and CGA support. You cannot output a 9 pin EGA/CGA signal into a VGA monitor or even a GBS8200 converter as CGA/EGA is
Digital signal as opposed to analog VGA. You can make up an adaptor that will work connected to a GBS8200 then to a VGA monitor.

I installed DOS 5 on mine, seems to do what I need. You cannot use an AT keyboard in an XT without an adaptor. The keyboard connector is the same but the signals are different.

Imperious wrote:

I have recently spent quite a bit of time learning what You can and can't do with an XT 8088 based system. I probably still have […]
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I have recently spent quite a bit of time learning what You can and can't do with an XT 8088 based system. I probably still have a lot more to learn.

You can use a 1.44mb floppy drive but I could not get 1.44mb floppy's to format as 720k, just 720k disks only worked. I have an Amiga 500 and lots of DSDD disks still.
I have built one of those Lo-tech CF boards and once You get that working You don't really need a floppy drive anymore as You can just remove the CF card
and plug it into Your main PC and copy whatever You want to it.
Referring to Windows 1 or 2 as an OS is a massive stretch nowdays. It is really just a DOS program. Even Amiga Workbench blows it out of the water and that came out years earlier.
Windows 1 works fine even on a XT 8088 so will also be ok on a 8086.
If Your motherboard has standard ISA slots You can use an SB16 (I have a CT2770)in the 8 bit slot and run the PC speaker through it for better sound as well as some later games
that support adlib sound.
Many 16 bit VGA cards will work but some have poor EGA and CGA support. You cannot output a 9 pin EGA/CGA signal into a VGA monitor or even a GBS8200 converter as CGA/EGA is
Digital signal as opposed to analog VGA. You can make up an adaptor that will work connected to a GBS8200 then to a VGA monitor.

Thanks! As (according to my knowing) the PS/2 does not Support 1,44MB drives, I'll get 720kb floppy disks then (just to have them, additionally to the Lo-tech CF board).
I always wanted to try Windows 1 and Windows 2, so that's perfectly OK for me, I'm not expecting much 😀
The Motherboard has 8 bit ISA Slots, as far as I know, so I'll search the Internet and try which Cards will work. I have a ton of old, very old and extremely old VGA Cards, so I'm quite confident that one of them will work fine in the PS/2.

nemail wrote:

Thanks! As (according to my knowing) the PS/2 does not Support 1,44MB drives, I'll get 720kb floppy disks then (just to have the […]
Show full quote

Imperious wrote:

I have recently spent quite a bit of time learning what You can and can't do with an XT 8088 based system. I probably still have […]
Show full quote

I have recently spent quite a bit of time learning what You can and can't do with an XT 8088 based system. I probably still have a lot more to learn.

You can use a 1.44mb floppy drive but I could not get 1.44mb floppy's to format as 720k, just 720k disks only worked. I have an Amiga 500 and lots of DSDD disks still.
I have built one of those Lo-tech CF boards and once You get that working You don't really need a floppy drive anymore as You can just remove the CF card
and plug it into Your main PC and copy whatever You want to it.
Referring to Windows 1 or 2 as an OS is a massive stretch nowdays. It is really just a DOS program. Even Amiga Workbench blows it out of the water and that came out years earlier.
Windows 1 works fine even on a XT 8088 so will also be ok on a 8086.
If Your motherboard has standard ISA slots You can use an SB16 (I have a CT2770)in the 8 bit slot and run the PC speaker through it for better sound as well as some later games
that support adlib sound.
Many 16 bit VGA cards will work but some have poor EGA and CGA support. You cannot output a 9 pin EGA/CGA signal into a VGA monitor or even a GBS8200 converter as CGA/EGA is
Digital signal as opposed to analog VGA. You can make up an adaptor that will work connected to a GBS8200 then to a VGA monitor.

Thanks! As (according to my knowing) the PS/2 does not Support 1,44MB drives, I'll get 720kb floppy disks then (just to have them, additionally to the Lo-tech CF board).
I always wanted to try Windows 1 and Windows 2, so that's perfectly OK for me, I'm not expecting much 😀
The Motherboard has 8 bit ISA Slots, as far as I know, so I'll search the Internet and try which Cards will work. I have a ton of old, very old and extremely old VGA Cards, so I'm quite confident that one of them will work fine in the PS/2.

You don't have to purchase 720kb diskettes. Just cover the hole adjacent to the write-protect hole.

nemail wrote:

Thanks! As (according to my knowing) the PS/2 does not Support 1,44MB drives, I'll get 720kb floppy disks then (just to have them, additionally to the Lo-tech CF board).
I always wanted to try Windows 1 and Windows 2, so that's perfectly OK for me, I'm not expecting much 😀
The Motherboard has 8 bit ISA Slots, as far as I know, so I'll search the Internet and try which Cards will work. I have a ton of old, very old and extremely old VGA Cards, so I'm quite confident that one of them will work fine in the PS/2.

Not so true anymore. Seems someone found his way to replace the PS/2 proprietary floppy unit with a cheap standard 3 1/2 floppy drive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZlhnDCmiFg

Not the cleanest method, but works well enough 😜. With this method becomes possible to add an HxC/Gotek HxC flashed virtual floppy drive to the unit too.

hyoenmadan wrote:

Not so true anymore. Seems someone found his way to replace the PS/2 proprietary floppy unit with a cheap standard 3 1/2 floppy […]
Show full quote

nemail wrote:

Thanks! As (according to my knowing) the PS/2 does not Support 1,44MB drives, I'll get 720kb floppy disks then (just to have them, additionally to the Lo-tech CF board).
I always wanted to try Windows 1 and Windows 2, so that's perfectly OK for me, I'm not expecting much 😀
The Motherboard has 8 bit ISA Slots, as far as I know, so I'll search the Internet and try which Cards will work. I have a ton of old, very old and extremely old VGA Cards, so I'm quite confident that one of them will work fine in the PS/2.

Not so true anymore. Seems someone found his way to replace the PS/2 proprietary floppy unit with a cheap standard 3 1/2 floppy drive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZlhnDCmiFg

Not the cleanest method, but works well enough 😜. With this method becomes possible to add an HxC/Gotek HxC flashed virtual floppy drive to the unit too.

That is a model 50, a 286. it supports the larger floppy drives. The 8086 machines are DSDD only, unless you find an add-on card. I found on ebay a long time ago an external floppy drive. it included an adapter, that allowed me to use "standard" floppy drives on the ps/2 without cutting cables. Just keep your eyes open on ebay. ^.^

There are some video cards that will work in an 8 bit slot, but honestly, the on-board video is just fine. Besides, MCGA is an unique experience!

i will definitely try mcga out and then decide if i want to go with vga or not. 😀

so i've recieved the computer today and tried to get it going.
when i turn it on, it starts counting memory up to 640k and then demands that i insert a floppy disk into the left drive and press f1.
i downloaded the reference disk and copied the image contents to the floppy disk, after formatting it in a 386 running dos 6.22 with 720k (covered the hole adjacent to the write protect hole and used track/sector parameters).

however, when i press f1, the ps/2 boots to the MS BASIC Interpreter, regardless of the inserted floppy disk.
Do I have to copy the image with a utility to the floppy disk to also get the boot sector on it? or is there anything else I was missing?

thanks a lot!

Definitely you must use an image writer utility to write the image byte by byte to the disk.

Really, any 720K bootable floppy disk should work. Stick it in your 386 and use the command "format a: /s" and it should boot.