For DOS, I'd suggest the P200MMX on the TX-97E, 64MB DRAM (stay below the TX chipset cacheable limit). You'll need a compatible video card, ideally an S3 Virge with VBE 2.0 or a PCI Voodoo 3. Patch the BIOS from here and you get better HDD support (>32GB). The best option for audio is the AWE64.

For Win98, I'd recommend the S478 motherboard with the Prescott CPU, dual 256MB DIMMs, either the Geforce2 GTS or Geforce 6800GT (depending on what titles you want to run), and both the Montego II and Audigy ZS. This way you have support for both A3D and EAX. You could also use the V3 in the AGP slot or V2 alongside the NVidia cards if you want to run some Glide titles.

The DOS machine will provide speed equivalence between a 386DX and fast PMMX (including possibly some overclocking). A K6-2+ chip would allow on the fly reclocking through software and might be useful if you're running higher resolution late DOS titles. The P4 machine will run practically any Win98 title as well as late DOS titles using the Montego II for audio.

I think you need to experiment a bit. Try this setup first.

- Asus CUSL2-C (i815, socket 370)
- PIII 1000Mhz, Socket 370 Coppermine
- 3Dfx voodoo3 3500 TV AGP.
- Turtle beach Montego II Aureal vortex II

Then try other combo's, using the hardware you have.
Benchmark and test for compatibility (make notice of stuff like gfx glitches and such)

EDIT:
Try the GF2 combined with a V2-SLI setup too, in this machine.
Personally I would not use a 6600 for Win98. This is just my preferance personally.

For the 98 machine go for the P4 and the nvidia 6800 and you can use nglide for 3Dfx support if you like.

For the MSDOS machine, you could use either the slot 1 with the 440bx chipset with the PII OR the socket 370 and a PIII

For sound I agree with gdjacobs use either the AWE64 or the Soundblaster Live!(I currently have one in a PII 266MMX build and like it)

If you want to go with some early dos games go with the socket 7

I disagree about using anything other than a socket 7 for DOS (unless you want to try the VIA C3 route). Slot 1 and S370 chipsets are just not versatile enough. Also, using Creative PCI cards for DOS audio has a compatibility penalty as they require EMM386.

I have a TX-97 motherboard and I can personally attest to how good a platform socket 7 is.

gdjacobs wrote:

I disagree about using anything other than a socket 7 for DOS (unless you want to try the VIA C3 route). Slot 1 and S370 chipsets are just not versatile enough. Also, using Creative PCI cards for DOS audio has a compatibility penalty as it requires EMM386 and some titles don't operate properly with that.

I stand by that too.... Allmost.
If the parts can be sourced, then SS7 and a good K6-III-450+ (or 500 or 550) should be the most versatile.
Unless of course you are going "hardcore" on era correct hardware.
These parts are really hard to source now a days. Ask the older generations in the family and so on, if they have old computers stored away.
Hunt for these parts in alternative locations, instead of the overrated and overinflated eBay price's.
eBay are great for other type of hardware era's. 😉

The most difficult and expensive item to find is the SS7 motherboard. He's got a really solid S7 board that works with any Intel, Cyrix, or AMD processor, so his investment will be in the form of a PCI video card and perhaps a K6-2+ or K6-III+ chip down the road. For now, the Pentium MMX should be quite strong enough. If not, he can run it on his Win98 machine.

gdjacobs wrote:

The most difficult and expensive item to find is the SS7 motherboard. He's got a really solid S7 board that works with any Intel, Cyrix, or AMD processor, so his investment will be in the form of a PCI video card and perhaps a K6-2+ or K6-III+ chip down the road. For now, the Pentium MMX should be quite strong enough. If not, he can run it on his Win98 machine.

True.... I was only suggesting him to ask the elder generations of his family. 😀
If it can be sourced for free, then it is the best way to get these boards now a days.

Well, yes, component hoarding does become a way of life.

gdjacobs wrote:

Well, yes, component hoarding does become a way of life.

Guess it comes with age. My grandparent would not throw anything out.
When they were gone, and we cleaned out, I found her old hand operated Singer sewingmachine in the attech.
(1920's design and still working)

gdjacobs wrote:

For Win98, I'd recommend the S478 motherboard with the Prescott CPU, dual 256MB DIMMs, either the Geforce2 GTS or Geforce 6800GT (depending on what titles you want to run), and both the Montego II and Audigy ZS. This way you have support for both A3D and EAX. You could also use the V3 in the AGP slot or V2 alongside the NVidia cards if you want to run some Glide titles.

^THIS^

Win98 titles are not speed sensitive so go as fast as you can so you can enjoy games at high-res and full details.
Personally I'm not a fan of A3D (I find it gimmicky at best) but the Montego II has A pretty decent MIDI synth if I'm not mistaking. Useful for running late DOS and early win9x games under win98.
I'd also add a pair of voodoo 2 cards to this build. It would let you play glide titles naively.

gdjacobs wrote:

The DOS machine will provide speed equivalence between a 386DX and fast PMMX (including possibly some overclocking). A K6-2+ chip would allow on the fly reclocking through software and might be useful if you're running higher resolution late DOS titles. The P4 machine will run practically any Win98 title as well as late DOS titles using the Montego II for audio.

Yeah if you can find a K6-II+ or K6-III chip it would be a great base for a 1985-1999 game machine. I also recommend getting a VIA MVP3 or ALi Aladdin 5 mainboard. A TNT2 or Geforce 2 card would also go great with that system, as well as Voodoo 2 cards.

gdjacobs wrote:

Well, yes, component hoarding does become a way of life.

If you only look for ATX boards, then yes they are very difficult to find, but regular AT boards should be easy to get. It also makes the whole thing smaller taking up less space. A quick google search came up with this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Socket-7-Motherboard- … ~8AAOSw65FXuG9O

mmmark84, what have you got for PCI video cards (aside from the V2)?

gdjacobs wrote:

I disagree about using anything other than a socket 7 for DOS (unless you want to try the VIA C3 route). Slot 1 and S370 chipsets are just not versatile enough. Also, using Creative PCI cards for DOS audio has a compatibility penalty as they require EMM386.

I have a TX-97 motherboard and I can personally attest to how good a platform socket 7 is.

one of the reasons i mentioned use of the later hardware over the socket 7, was the games mentioned:

The games that I hold close to my heart, are the (late?) dos games like carmageddon, duke3d, doom1/2, the incredible machine1/2, quake, indiana jones fate of atlantis, settlers II (all top of my head, must be loads more)

Where they don't require newer hardware, they can benefit from it, especially the more demanding 3D titles.

Not particularly targeting anything requiring the older hardware or omitting emm386(as far as i'm aware), and the 440bx would enable the use of the AWE64, but there are also boards out there with both slot 1 and socket 370, ISA slots PCI slots and AGP slots.

Edit: Another thing to consider, is mouse support, many socket 7 AT boards don't have a ps/2 port, you can use a serial mouse but finding a nice one can be tricky, and that's if you want to use a ball mouse(which is fine if you do) 😁

The TX-97 series boards have the Asus Mouse/IR header. A PS/2 port can be installed.

Games like Duke3d and Quake (not so much Doom) can certainly benefit from a faster CPU, but a PMMX clocked to 233 or 266 may be fast enough. Also, if OP wants to play Monkey Island or early Wing Commander games he's going to need to downclock. Actually, depending on what audio is used, Fate of Atlantis can show speed sensitivity. It's ideal on a 486. I play it with L1 disabled on a K6-2. A P2 or P3 will not be able to achieve that speed equivalent as it suffers too much when caches are disabled. IIRC you get 286 level performance.

Oh wow, I did not expect this much replies! I have to go to work first, but I will read all posts thoroughly after. I edited my first post, to add the PCI cards I could use for the pentium 1 board.

They are the S3 virge/DX (4MB?) PCI and Trident Blade3D 8MB PCI

For the TX97-E, I got the USB and PS/2 sorted via headers and AT/PS2 converter for keyboard, so no biggy there.

kanecvr wrote:

If you only look for ATX boards, then yes they are very difficult to find, but regular AT boards should be easy to get. It also makes the whole thing smaller taking up less space. A quick google search came up with this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Socket-7-Motherboard- … ~8AAOSw65FXuG9O

Do you think this a "best" match for me? cause I almost already bought it just now, but I did not research SS7 that much...

mmmark84 wrote:

Oh wow, I did not expect this much replies! I have to go to work first, but I will read all posts thoroughly after. I edited my first post, to add the PCI cards I could use for the pentium 1 board.

They are the S3 virge/DX (4MB?) PCI and Trident Blade3D 8MB PCI

For the TX97-E, I got the USB and PS/2 sorted via headers and AT/PS2 converter for keyboard, so no biggy there.

The Virge/DX is excellent for a DOS machine. Highly compatible and includes VBE 2.0 (so you can run titles like Mech2 at SVGA resolutions without a TSR).

mmmark84 wrote:

kanecvr wrote:

If you only look for ATX boards, then yes they are very difficult to find, but regular AT boards should be easy to get. It also makes the whole thing smaller taking up less space. A quick google search came up with this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Socket-7-Motherboard- … ~8AAOSw65FXuG9O

Do you think this a "best" match for me? cause I almost already bought it just now, but I did not research SS7 that much...

I would want to identify the board in question before investing in it. A good SS7 board will give you more top end performance, but a PC Chips board will make you want to stab out your eyeballs.

So, I read everyones suggestions... not very conclusive, which I was afraid of, because that was the same conclusion i arived at... too many options 😒

BUT! I can however come to a bit of a conclusion, based on number of suggestions of some items, I can scratch some of the list.

So the windows 98 machine is pretty conclusive, I guess:

Motherboard: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe (i875, socket 478)
CPU: P4 3,2Ghz, Socket 478 Prescott
RAM: 2x256MB
Videocard: Geforce 2 or 800GT (i am thinking of putting the 6800GT in, because of the speed differences and SM 3.0)
Soundcards: vortex II and Audigy 2 ZS (how does that even work? line in to lineout? do games switch between AEX and A3d 2.0 automaticly like glide/direct3d?)
Extra: glide support with nglide wrapper? or voodoo 2 SLI none the less?

kanecvr wrote:

Win98 titles are not speed sensitive so go as fast as you can so you can enjoy games at high-res and full details.
Personally I'm not a fan of A3D (I find it gimmicky at best) but the Montego II has A pretty decent MIDI synth if I'm not mistaking. Useful for running late DOS and early win9x games under win98.
I'd also add a pair of voodoo 2 cards to this build. It would let you play glide titles naively.

As much as I would LOVE having voodoo 2 SLI in the P4 system, the performance was realy terrible.... the PIII system realy blew the P4 away with those in SLI with same drivers... I also read the exact same conclusion somewhere on this forum, after I saw the 3dmark figures...

leaves me with the DOS machine... Based on your suggestions, I should go with my Socket 7 platform (most votes). With the current hardware I have, I guess it will be:

Motherboard: Asus TX97-E
CPU: Pentium 200 MMX
RAM: 64MB PC100 because of the cachable amount of the mobo
Videocards: virge/DX + voodoo 2 SLI (isnt this too powerfull for the 200MMX? maybe single voodoo2 would fit it better)
Soundcard: Creative CT4500 Soundblaster AWE64 ISA

New to be aquired i guess, because of the games I mentioned and the flexibility of downclocking:

Super socket 7 platform with AMD K6-III 450+ mhz for on the fly downclocking.
I did bid on some motherboards with the Ali chipset ( i guess that ones are the best?)
Dont want to pay the inflated artifciual prices they ask for them... I think its a scam at best.
Maybe I will sell a kidney, to get the hardware I need... 😢

I also thought of a game (that started the quest for upgrading the P200 machine) that was running with too low performance: Nuclear Strike... Its a glide only game for windows (95?) that runs a bit slow on the P200 that had the voodoo2 SLI in it at the time. I think my best bet would be to go SS7 with a higher K6-2 or -3...

kanecvr wrote:

If you only look for ATX boards, then yes they are very difficult to find, but regular AT boards should be easy to get. It also makes the whole thing smaller taking up less space. A quick google search came up with this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Socket-7-Motherboard- … ~8AAOSw65FXuG9O

What were your google search terms? I am finding it hard to search for super socket 7...

gdjacobs wrote:

I would want to identify the board in question before investing in it. A good SS7 board will give you more top end performance, but a PC Chips board will make you want to stab out your eyeballs.

Thanks! I asked the seller. edit: it is a Shuttle HOT-591P socket7 motherboard rev3.1 VIA VT82C598MVP chipset.
Edit 2: oh wow, I just realised, that board will never ever fit a full size voodoo2 PCI card... look at that monstrous placement of the socket 7... 😒

The TX-97 series boards have the Asus Mouse/IR header. A PS/2 port can be installed.

Games like Duke3d and Quake (not so much Doom) can certainly benefit from a faster CPU, but a PMMX clocked to 233 or 266 may be fast enough. Also, if OP wants to play Monkey Island or early Wing Commander games he's going to need to downclock. Actually, depending on what audio is used, Fate of Atlantis can show speed sensitivity. It's ideal on a 486. I play it with L1 disabled on a K6-2. A P2 or P3 will not be able to achieve that speed equivalent as it suffers too much when caches are disabled. IIRC you get 286 level performance.

That's good to know reg the TX-97 boards, i'll keep an eye out for them, I remember Fate of Atlantis running normally on an old P3 (celeron 700mhz, i810 chipset) but I could well be mistaken, Think I'll give that one a test on the p2 and p3 rigs.

EDIT: Tested Fate of Atlantis on a slot 1 pentium II 266 MMX, ran perfectly at normal speed, should be the same for a p3 system but not tested that yet. Yet to test any wing commander games prior to wing commander III or monkey island but I'm thinking these may run too fast.

As for 3Dfx support on the 98 P4 rig, it should work nicely with nglide and the 6800, I use a Radeon 9800xt for that but had a 6600 in before, but if you wanted there's nothing stopping you from SLI-ing up some Voodoo 2s but it'd limit the resolution for your 3Dfx glide games.

synrgy87 wrote:

EDIT: Tested Fate of Atlantis on a slot 1 pentium II 266 MMX, ran perfectly at normal speed, should be the same for a p3 system but not tested that yet. Yet to test any wing commander games prior to wing commander III or monkey island but I'm thinking these may run too fast.

I get audio corruption for both FM and MIDI when running at full clock. This may be audio interface dependent.

mmmark84 wrote:

Thanks! I asked the seller. edit: it is a Shuttle HOT-591P socket7 motherboard rev3.1 VIA VT82C598MVP chipset.
Edit 2: oh wow, I just realised, that board will never ever fit a full size voodoo2 PCI card... look at that monstrous placement of the socket 7... 😒

Good board aside from the socket placement. It would work well with the V3 3500. Still, I think the Asus board will do everything you need.