MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

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MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby chrisNova777 » 2016-10-26 @ 20:35

just wondering if anyones familiar with the following:
Image
http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/inde ... opic=566.0

Using The MIDI Express PC from DOS (16-bit card only)
-----------------------------------------------------

You can use your MIDI Express PC 16-bit card as an MPU-401-compatible
interface for use with DOS programs that work with the MPU-401.

**** but does it do INTELLIGENT MODE? it might!
This mode works under DOS only and will not work in an MS-DOS prompt running
under Windows.
Again, this mode is possible only with the 16-bit card
(see the chart above to determine if you have the 16-bit card).
**** 16bit ISA card originally sold with this product HAS ANYONE GOT ONE????
id like to get some images of this card if you do!


NOTE: You must first exit Windows before using the MIDI Express PC in
MPU-401 mode! If you are using Windows 95, you must choose "Restart
the computer in MS-DOS mode" from the Start|Shutdown menu.

To put the Express PC into MPU-401 mode, run the MPUSETUP.EXE program
found in the C:\WINMXP\DOS directory created during the Windows
installation procedure.

To do this:

1) Exit Windows.

2) Change the current directory to C:\WINMXP\DOS (WINMXP is the default
root directory of your MIDI Express PC installation) by entering the
command line...

CD C:\WINMXP\DOS

3) Run the MPUSETUP.EXE program by entering the command line...

MPUSETUP

4) A "usage" listing will appear with information on the two arguments
you can use for this program. You must specify the current port address
of the MIDI Express PC card and the IRQ you want the card to use with
your DOS MIDI software. It is best to set this to the same IRQ as you
used for the Windows driver. For example, if the card has been set to
port address 340 and you want it to use IRQ 5, the command line would
be...

MPUSETUP 340 5

5) Run MPUSETUP with the correct arguments to make your MIDI Express PC
function as an MPU-401-compatible interface. This should make it work
with other DOS MIDI software. If needed, be sure to tell the DOS
program what IRQ and port address your MIDI Express PC (in MPU-401 mode)
is using. If your DOS program does not allow such a setting, it may
simply expect the port address to be 330 (the standard MPU-401 address).
See your DOS MIDI application's manual for more information.

6) If you will often be using your MIDI Express PC in MPU-401 mode
before starting Windows, you may want to edit your AUTOEXEC.BAT file to
include the command line needed to run the MPUSETUP.EXE program (see
steps 3 and 4 above). It will most likely be best to include this
command line at the end of the file.

NOTE: Before running Windows again, you should disable MPU-401 mode.

Run the MPUSETUP program with only the port address argument to disable
MPU-401 mode before starting Windows again:

MPUSETUP 340

NOTE: Along the lines of the above AUTOEXEC.BAT suggestion, if you often
use MPU-401 in DOS mode and also use Windows 3.1, you might create a
batch file that executes the above command line before starting Windows
and then reenables MPU-401 mode after Windows has exited. This way, you
won't forget to do it in either case. The .BAT file might look like
this:

MPUSETUP 340
WIN
MPUSETUP 340 5


Setting Up The MIDI Time Piece Console for DOS Only
---------------------------------------------------

NOTE: This section is intended for DOS-only users. The MIDI Express
PC Windows setup process will install these files for you. Follow
these instructions ONLY if you DO NOT run the Windows setup.

To install the MIDI Time Piece Console for DOS, place the installation
diskette #2 into drive A (substitute drive "B" for "A" if it is the
installation "source" drive on your computer) and change the current
drive at the DOS prompt to drive A by entering the following command
line...

A:

To start the installation, enter...

DOSSETUP <path>

...where <path> is the location on your hard disk to place the DOS
software.

For example, to place the DOS software in the directory C:\MTPDOS, you
would enter the command

DOSSETUP C:\MTPDOS

This installs the files MTP104M.EXE, MPUSETUP.EXE, EXAMPLE.MTP and
WINDOWS.MTP. MTP104M.EXE is the MIDI Time Piece Console for DOS Console
application. MPUSETUP.EXE is the setup program for the MPU-401 mode of
the MIDI Express PC (see the section below for information on using
this program). EXAMPLE.MTP is an example setup for the MTP which can be
loaded into your MIDI Express PC via the DOS console application.
WINDOWS.MTP is a suggested default setup for operating the MIDI Express
PC with Twelve Tone Systems Cakewalk software. The MIDI Time Piece
Console for DOS software allows limited access to the functionality of
the MIDI Express PC. The MIDI Express PC destroys any previous
configuration information at system startup. DOS users will need to
download configuration information to the MIDI Express PC after every
reboot. Windows users have their last configuration information
automatically loaded when Windows starts.
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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby xjas » 2016-10-26 @ 21:51

Oh, interesting. I was under the impression that most parallel port devices don't offer much in the way of DOS support. Might have to keep my eyes open for a cheap one after all.
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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby chrisNova777 » 2016-10-26 @ 22:08

they dont! exactly why i posted .. but this is a special case scenario.. and it doesnt connect to the parallel port. it connects to a specific ISA card.. which is what im trying to get info on.
as the article above states.. it only works with the 16bit ISA card not the 8bit.. so im wondering if this specific version of the adapter ISA actually has Mpu-401 intelligent mode capabilities.
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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby Ozzuneoj » 2016-10-26 @ 23:13

I love stuff like this... mysterious computer parts that may do interesting things, with hardly any trace of them floating around the net.

My Google-Foo has failed so far on this one, but I'll keep searching. :)
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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby chrisNova777 » 2016-10-26 @ 23:31

Ozzuneoj wrote:I love stuff like this... mysterious computer parts that may do interesting things, with hardly any trace of them floating around the net.

My Google-Foo has failed so far on this one, but I'll keep searching. :)


hah!! obviously u have had a taste of discoveries.... its like winning the lottery and then being addicting to buying lotto tickets! Lol
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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby xjas » 2016-10-26 @ 23:37

chrisNova777 wrote:they dont! exactly why i posted .. but this is a special case scenario.. and it doesnt connect to the parallel port. it connects to a specific ISA card.. which is what im trying to get info on.
as the article above states.. it only works with the 16bit ISA card not the 8bit.. so im wondering if this specific version of the adapter ISA actually has Mpu-401 intelligent mode capabilities.


Ah, damn, didn't read well enough. I've seen a few of those pop up for sale but never seen the ISA card.
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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby Ozzuneoj » 2016-10-26 @ 23:49

chrisNova777 wrote:
Ozzuneoj wrote:I love stuff like this... mysterious computer parts that may do interesting things, with hardly any trace of them floating around the net.

My Google-Foo has failed so far on this one, but I'll keep searching. :)


hah!! obviously u have had a taste of discoveries.... its like winning the lottery and then being addicting to buying lotto tickets! Lol


I absolutely have... it is incredibly addicting!

The only tidbit of info that may or may not be related to this is a reference to a Notebook version that apparently uses a Parallel interface...
http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 14&t=31690

Again, not likely to be of much help. This is definitely going to be a tough one to find.
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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby chrisNova777 » 2016-10-27 @ 02:03

yes im aware of the Express PC "notebook" version was a revised version of this for laptops..
but it doesnt have the mpu-401 mode because it doesnt use the 16bit ISA adapter

the midi express family is as far as i know it, the lower level product stepped down
from the MTP (midi timepeice) which was the flagship offering from motu, the "express" line
being a "lite" version of the fully networkable/expandable "Miditimepiece" - the MTPs let u link two
ofthem together to get more then 8 in 8 out by using more than one box via its rs422 "network" port

but i think the "Midi express" family looks like this:

1st gen: (orange + black)
Midi express - mac version (via rs422 serial)
midi express PC - pc version (for desktops via Adapter ISA card)
midi express pc notebook - pc version (for laptops via parallel port)

2nd gen: (blue + black)
Midi Express XT - MAC/PC cross compatible (parallel windows / mac serial)
Midi Express XT USB - Mac/Pc cross compatible (USB windows / USB mac)

3rd gen:
Midi Express XT USB - Mac/Pc cross compatible (USB windows / USB mac)
MOTU MIDI Express 128 USB - Mac/Pc cross compatible (USB windows / USB mac)


so im mostly just interested in this "express PC" version that uses this obscure 16bit ISA card
id like to see one to see if it has Roland Chips on it to see if it supports Intelligent mpu-401
because this would have been of real importance back at the time it was released
as alot of software required a real mpu-401 interface (cakewalk + voyetra sequencer plus both did at one point
+ alot of countless other DOS MIDI Apps)
Last edited by chrisNova777 on 2016-10-27 @ 02:23, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby Cloudschatze » 2016-10-27 @ 02:20

I looked into the MIDI Express PC several months ago, when a complete card/breakout set was available on eBay. Purportedly, the MPU-401 compatibility is problematic, and MOTU ceased advertising the feature sometime during production. It would be interesting to know for sure, as I wasn't willing to take the gamble.
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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby chrisNova777 » 2016-10-27 @ 02:23

Cloudschatze wrote:I looked into the MIDI Express PC several months ago, when a complete card/breakout set was available on eBay. Purportedly, the MPU-401 compatibility is problematic, and MOTU ceased advertising the feature sometime during production. It would be interesting to know for sure, as I wasn't willing to take the gamble.


yea its a risky venture for true mpu-401 (for DOS use), but id still like to know the answer some day! and the card was definately supported for other MIDI apps in windows 3.1 because the emagic logic 1.x + 2.x installers both mention the MTP. maybe some user can enlighten us with the details!
i can only imagine that MOTU didnt take it that seriously (the pc platform) because they only had 1 product that was pc compatible at the time, i think it was Freestyle (http://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/f ... quirements) then again there was a unisyn patch librarian version for windows aswell (http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/inde ... opic=526.0)

wow im surprised to be seeing that the motu pci-324 card actually supported windows 3.1 !! : http://www.motu.com/techsupport/technot ... quirements
http://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/w ... dio-system
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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby chrisNova777 » 2016-10-27 @ 03:40

i tried to check the manual but chapter 10, which is "emulating the mpu-401" from the scanned PDF is missing frm this file:
http://web.archive.org/web/201512230757 ... resspc.pdf
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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby chrisNova777 » 2017-7-12 @ 16:43

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTU-Mark-of-th ... Sww3tY3h5R

anyone else notice this auction? which shows the original ISA mpu card that was the host card for this "MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC" 1994 interface...
i think its official roland chip hiding under the label of that large eeprom!
"mark of the unicorn" express pc mtp card - notice how it appears to have both the mac style + pc style serial ports
verified by checking this other image of the card
notice also says "copyright S+S research 1993 midi express card" on the back of the pcb

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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby yawetaG » 2017-7-12 @ 17:20

Cloudschatze wrote:I looked into the MIDI Express PC several months ago, when a complete card/breakout set was available on eBay. Purportedly, the MPU-401 compatibility is problematic, and MOTU ceased advertising the feature sometime during production. It would be interesting to know for sure, as I wasn't willing to take the gamble.


MOTU's MIDI interfaces are also somewhat notorious for screwing up SysEx communication, plus they have very bad after sales support when it comes to the (often very buggy) drivers for their products.

It's basically a situation of "if it works, you're in luck, if it doesn't, you're screwed".

chrisNova777 wrote:anyone else notice this auction? which shows the original ISA mpu card that was the host card for this "MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC" 1994 interface...
i think its official roland chip hiding under the label of that large eeprom!


I would be very surprised if it did.
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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby gdjacobs » 2017-8-07 @ 00:31

So, I got a complete Express PC and breakout box (with drivers and manual) locally and did some preliminary testing.

Works fine: Star Trek 25th Anniversary
Speed sensitive (works fine on my P54C in 486 mode): Rise of the Dragon, Quest for Glory 2
Problematic: King's Quest IV (sounds are correct, no MIDI packet corruption, but MIDI notes have a slow tempo during intro fireworks)

I obviously haven't fired up Homeworld or Laser Squad yet, but they're on my list to try.

Any thoughts?
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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby chrisNova777 » 2017-8-07 @ 02:31

gdjacobs? u have the complete interface with the matching host ISA card???
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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby gdjacobs » 2017-8-07 @ 03:01

Yes, the one in a 16 bit form factor.
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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby chrisNova777 » 2017-11-21 @ 20:42

gdjacobs wrote:Yes, the one in a 16 bit form factor.


were u usng the most updated driver files?
they seem to be archived here: https://web.archive.org/web/19961017233 ... soles.html

https://web.archive.org/web/19961017234 ... P16BIT.EXE
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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby gdjacobs » 2017-11-22 @ 05:16

I'll compare versions and let you know.
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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby chrisNova777 » 2017-11-25 @ 20:35

chrisNova777 wrote:they dont! exactly why i posted .. but this is a special case scenario.. and it doesnt connect to the parallel port. it connects to a specific ISA card.. which is what im trying to get info on.
as the article above states.. it only works with the 16bit ISA card not the 8bit.. so im wondering if this specific version of the adapter ISA actually has Mpu-401 intelligent mode capabilities.


i was actually wondering if it would be at all possible to clone the host card?
being that there are many of these for sale quite frequently without the card
sort of like seeing the echo layla or delta 1010 rack units for sale with no host card either..
in those two scenarios the cards are doing the heavy lifting so to speak and the rack interface
is just the physical connections, (at least thats what i beleive to be true, someone correct me if im wrong)

but, the midi express pc, im hoping it might be possible to get a card cloned by someone talented..
could be profitable?? i could see you being able to sell them for 50$ easy

ive never seen the actual host card in person, so i dont even have one to clone, id have to negotiate something
with someone who owns the card.. well id be happy if someone just takes my idea and gives me a host card;) lol hint hint

anyway im only thinking on this because of the whole pcmidi development and what not.. but perhaps this isnt quite so simple
in that its an 8 port device? or maybe theres some components that cant be replaced or sourced? i know nothing about this
im a software + music guy! :)
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Re: MOTU MIDI EXPRESS PC (1994) had a mpu-401 compatibility mode

Postby iPonRMA » 2018-3-29 @ 20:17

...aaand... under the stickers..
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