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Cracked chip

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First post, by krivulak

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After a long time I decided to do something with a soldering iron, because I love doing with this equipment, so I put my attention to 286 board from Japan. I was cleaning battery leakage, it was going well, I was able to remove blue-ish crystals with vinegar and small knife, soldered out the keyboard BIOS because rotten traces went under it and I wasn't able to see where it goes. It went to one pin that was eaten out, so I meaured the traces, repaired the pin with wire which came from a capacitor and soldered it back in place. That was going well. But I decided to do second chip which had some corrosion on it as well. It was quite late, as the matter of fact I was sorting through my PSU stash since 9am, now it is 11:27 pm and I desperately need to go to bed. That was the biggest reason why I screwed up.
OK, what happened?
When I was desoldering badly placed chip between two ISA slots, I managed to crack the chip in half. The chip is completely ruined, it is cracked in the middle and pins fell out. So, you are guessing correct, where I can find replacement?
At the beginning it looked like this
SAM_1840_zpstqhxfl0n.jpg
SAM_1848_zpsfzex0hal.jpg
I cleaned the board and desoldered keyboard BIOS chip
P_20161028_221544_zpsoubjhhuj.jpg
Then this happened,
P_20161028_230337_zpsfd0cqnpd.jpg
So I ended here.
P_20161028_230509_zpsq7o9ojh7.jpg

And I don't know who is the maker of this chip, what is it's purpose and where to find replacement. I feel like an idiot and moron now, but it happened and it can't be reversed. And I can't even find anything about the board, because it only has label saying 103FS with japanese symbols stamped around.

I haven't ever done so much retro tinkering stuff in one day, I need to order some caps, but shipping is pricey so I have to order as much stuff as possible, so I went through 35 PSUs, opened every single one, wrote down bad caps to order, cleaned and oiled fans, then I checked bad caps on stored mainboards I have (around 15) and started going through towers, but I didn't have time so I went home and continued there with this board. But since I am not coffee drinker, I am now so tired that I am losing track what I am writing about and even forgot how to english, so I gotta put everything down and go sleep before I do something what would piss me off more.

Reply 1 of 17, by keropi

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Well the cracked IC is a Signetics 74LS245 , really really common and cheap IC... for example: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121129742430
No matter what make 74LS245 IC you get it will work just stick to 74LS245 and you'll be fine

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Reply 2 of 17, by GoblinUpTheRoad

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It's actually a 74ALS245, the ALS types have a shorter delay than the regular LS which the board might require.

You should use a 74ALS245 or 74F245.

Reply 3 of 17, by Jo22

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I agree with the other posters. Please make sure you get the right replacment chip, don't just buy any 74xx245 chip.
General speaking, some 74 series chips do also have a non pin compatible but functional identical counter part.
I vaguely remember that I had this issue myself with a 74Fxx(?) chip.

In case of doubt, it's better to check the data sheets or ask the dude in your local electronics shop first
(the type of shop who sells caps and resistors, not television sets).

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In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 4 of 17, by Imperious

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Try this shop. I bought some parts there a couple of years ago, they are cheap and postage was good.

http://standby-shop.eu/go/_search/full_search … =74f245&x=0&y=0

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Reply 5 of 17, by krivulak

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Jo22 wrote:

In case of doubt, it's better to check the data sheets or ask the dude in your local electronics shop first
(the type of shop who sells caps and resistors, not television sets).

Yeah, sounds great, but there is no electronics shop in 100 km radius around my house, so, it's gonna be hard... 😁

Imperious wrote:

Try this shop. I bought some parts there a couple of years ago, they are cheap and postage was good.

Sadly, they doesn't have anything that matches requirements, but thanks!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DM74ALS245AN/ … 7b-6d8b4a2edd1c
This looks like the same item and it costs half the price. I know it is not much, but I am a student and it is very hard to gain even coins.

Reply 6 of 17, by keropi

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GoblinUpTheRoad wrote:

It's actually a 74ALS245, the ALS types have a shorter delay than the regular LS which the board might require.

You should use a 74ALS245 or 74F245.

Good catch, absolutely correct 😊

74 series ICs are really common and cheap now days so pretty much every reputable place to get them is fine

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Reply 7 of 17, by Imperious

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krivulak wrote:
Yeah, sounds great, but there is no electronics shop in 100 km radius around my house, so, it's gonna be hard... :D […]
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Jo22 wrote:

In case of doubt, it's better to check the data sheets or ask the dude in your local electronics shop first
(the type of shop who sells caps and resistors, not television sets).

Yeah, sounds great, but there is no electronics shop in 100 km radius around my house, so, it's gonna be hard... 😁

Imperious wrote:

Try this shop. I bought some parts there a couple of years ago, they are cheap and postage was good.

Sadly, they doesn't have anything that matches requirements, but thanks!

It does. The bottom one is a 74F245 which will work. 74F are the fastest 74 series ic's.

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Reply 8 of 17, by Jo22

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krivulak wrote:
Jo22 wrote:

In case of doubt, it's better to check the data sheets or ask the dude in your local electronics shop first
(the type of shop who sells caps and resistors, not television sets).

Yeah, sounds great, but there is no electronics shop in 100 km radius around my house, so, it's gonna be hard... 😁

Ah, that' makes sense. I was just pointing out that it is better to check details twice. 😉
Even though the 74 series is well known and modern CMOS parts can often be used as replacements, there might be small incompatibilities here and there.
The chip in my case was an 74FxxN and the replacment chip was not the 74Cxx, but a different one. That's why I mentioned it.
Anyway, it shouldn't hurt to always be careful when using replacement chips..

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 9 of 17, by Matth79

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If you use the CMOS version, I'd go 74HCT245 - the T in HCT means it uses TTL voltage signalling, the HC use CMOS style voltage signalling - while the two MAY be compatible in some circumstances, the output "high" of TTL has limited margin for CMOS input high, and the output "low" of CMOS has limited margin for TTL input low.

Reply 10 of 17, by SirWolf

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Hi Krivulak, greetings from Brno.
Could you please tell me what RAM chips are on your LM-103 / 103FS board?
I have the same board, but with all the RAM chips missing.

Did you manage to replace the cracked 74LS245AN?

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Reply 11 of 17, by Vasco

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Does anyone have the BIOS ROM images for this particular board at hand?
I've got exactly the same board here with missing ROM chips and unfortunately I couldn't get any AMI BIOS for HT12/A working on it so far.

Thx,
Vasco

Reality continues to ruin my life.

Reply 12 of 17, by megatron-uk

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There are at least 4 variations of AMI BIOS for the HT12 chipset. I found all of them would work on my HT12 board. I mirrored them on my own site a while ago, along with a description of the major differences between the BIOS versions:

https://www.target-earth.net/wiki/doku.php?id … erence_material

The main summary being:

- BIOS in the 2hlm006.zip - supports 0-wait-state, BIOS shadowing and fast ISA bus BIOS settings.

- the BIOS in the 2hlm008.zip - supports BIOS option to partition RAM into XMS or EMS in 64KByte chunks, but loses the speed optimisation settings from 006.

You can still use EMS memory if needed, through the use of the HT12MM.SYS EMS driver (linked from my page above), so actually the 008 BIOS is entirely unnecessary.

My collection database and technical wiki:
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Reply 13 of 17, by Vasco

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Thanks, Megatron - coincidentally those were the BIOSses I tried so far (at least 2hlm006 and one for BI-025C). 😀
Maybe I should give the others a try too.

Nonetheless, I was just wondering if the original BIOS of the board pictured above (which is visually exactly the same LM-103 REV2.1 [with sticker 103FS on top if it] as I have here) would have some peculiarity which makes it different to the various HT12/A with AMI, Quadtels and Eurosofts around (I have three others).
But maybe mine is just broken and that's why it hangs very early during at POST codes 0x10, 0x0c which should be lower 64K initialization.
I simply had hoped it's just a BIOS issue..

Reality continues to ruin my life.

Reply 14 of 17, by megatron-uk

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Hmm, that doesn't sound too good. Any possibility of damage or corrosion? Does it happen with both SIMM/SIPP modules and DIP chips?

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Reply 15 of 17, by Vasco

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Slight corrosion in the battery area yes, but the traces make contact. Already cleaned that with Isopropanol, same to the contacts of the PLCC CPU and the socket pins.
Rest of the board looks good from visual inspection, no scratches not much dust etc.
It was my first idea to test with DIPs too (some HT12 boards require DIPs be mounted even when SIMM/SIPPs are used).

Reality continues to ruin my life.

Reply 16 of 17, by debs3759

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megatron-uk wrote on 2021-02-06, 10:02:
There are at least 4 variations of AMI BIOS for the HT12 chipset. I found all of them would work on my HT12 board. I mirrored th […]
Show full quote

There are at least 4 variations of AMI BIOS for the HT12 chipset. I found all of them would work on my HT12 board. I mirrored them on my own site a while ago, along with a description of the major differences between the BIOS versions:

https://www.target-earth.net/wiki/doku.php?id … erence_material

The main summary being:

- BIOS in the 2hlm006.zip - supports 0-wait-state, BIOS shadowing and fast ISA bus BIOS settings.

- the BIOS in the 2hlm008.zip - supports BIOS option to partition RAM into XMS or EMS in 64KByte chunks, but loses the speed optimisation settings from 006.

You can still use EMS memory if needed, through the use of the HT12MM.SYS EMS driver (linked from my page above), so actually the 008 BIOS is entirely unnecessary.

Very well documented. Bookmarked in case I ever work with a similar board.

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Constantly being worked on. Feel free to message me with any corrections or details of cards you would like me to research and add.

Reply 17 of 17, by krivulak

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Wow, that is necroposting and a half...
Anyway, after the years I found out that this kind of a board is a piece of $#!t... Had 5 of them in my possesion, all of them dead with no apparent reason. Seems like the chipset tends to die somehow.