VOGONS


Reply 40 of 59, by yawetaG

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

If the VGA connector is a standard one, you could try another monitor that's known to work, or try the original monitor on another system (be sure to change the resolution to something the monitor can accept before trying the last one). That would at least let us eliminate the monitor as the problem.

As an aside, does that 3.6V lithium battery still work?

Edit: Dug through some manuals and it looks like Epson kept the connector codes pretty standard throughout different models, which means your battery is attached to the right header (CN1), is the right type of battery, and the polarity was respected. However, the manuals do mention the batteries run out after 3-5 years, so it's likely the battery is dead. When replacing it, insulate it electrically from touching the case.

Reply 41 of 59, by Elia1995

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

The monitor works fine with other motherboards, even modern ones (I even tested it on my i7 PC).

As for the 3.6V lithium battery, I don't really know how I could replace it, do I need to re-solder those cables to a new 3.6v battery or are they sold as a single piece ?

Currently assembled vintage computers I own: 11

Most important ones:
A "modded" Olivetti M4 434 S (currently broken).
An Epson El Plus 386DX running MS-DOS 6.22 (currently broken).
Celeron Coppermine 1.10GHz on an M754LMRTP motherboard

Reply 42 of 59, by yawetaG

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Elia1995 wrote:

As for the 3.6V lithium battery, I don't really know how I could replace it, do I need to re-solder those cables to a new 3.6v battery or are they sold as a single piece ?

You'll need to resolder those cables as the motherboard connector might be proprietary. However, what I would suggest is to pick up a holder for those 3.6V batteries and solder that to the cables. Then replacing the battery is much easier.

Reply 43 of 59, by Ampera

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
yawetaG wrote:
Elia1995 wrote:

As for the 3.6V lithium battery, I don't really know how I could replace it, do I need to re-solder those cables to a new 3.6v battery or are they sold as a single piece ?

You'll need to resolder those cables as the motherboard connector might be proprietary. However, what I would suggest is to pick up a holder for those 3.6V batteries and solder that to the cables. Then replacing the battery is much easier.

He said his dad soldered that battery directly into the RTC. Idk if he de-potted it or what.

Reply 44 of 59, by yawetaG

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Ampera wrote:
yawetaG wrote:
Elia1995 wrote:

As for the 3.6V lithium battery, I don't really know how I could replace it, do I need to re-solder those cables to a new 3.6v battery or are they sold as a single piece ?

You'll need to resolder those cables as the motherboard connector might be proprietary. However, what I would suggest is to pick up a holder for those 3.6V batteries and solder that to the cables. Then replacing the battery is much easier.

He said his dad soldered that battery directly into the RTC. Idk if he de-potted it or what.

On the pictures Elia 1995 posted the battery is located near the front of the case and connected to the main board using a two-wire harness that plugs into a connector on the main board. According to various manuals for old Epson systems that connector is the one to which the battery should be connected. So I guess his dad replaced the original battery that was also soldered to those wires...

Reply 45 of 59, by Ampera

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

He claims a bit down on the first page there was a DALLAS RTC chip onboard, it's possible it has an external power connector, and I do now see the battery is on a connector.

Idk, that should work then, 386 machines where right around when computers were trying to not be stupidly confusing and complicated. We have come a long way.

Reply 46 of 59, by Elia1995

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I'm changing that 3.6v lithium battery in a few days (after these holiday days), let's hope this is the cause of all the problems.

Ah... and Merry Xmas !!!

Currently assembled vintage computers I own: 11

Most important ones:
A "modded" Olivetti M4 434 S (currently broken).
An Epson El Plus 386DX running MS-DOS 6.22 (currently broken).
Celeron Coppermine 1.10GHz on an M754LMRTP motherboard

Reply 47 of 59, by Ampera

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Elia1995 wrote:

I'm changing that 3.6v lithium battery in a few days (after these holiday days), let's hope this is the cause of all the problems.

Ah... and Merry Xmas !!!

disregard whatever I said, talking out of my ass.

Last edited by Ampera on 2016-12-25, 10:55. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 48 of 59, by Elia1995

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

How can I construct a 3.6v pack from 1.2v batteries ?

Currently assembled vintage computers I own: 11

Most important ones:
A "modded" Olivetti M4 434 S (currently broken).
An Epson El Plus 386DX running MS-DOS 6.22 (currently broken).
Celeron Coppermine 1.10GHz on an M754LMRTP motherboard

Reply 49 of 59, by yawetaG

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Ampera wrote:
Elia1995 wrote:

I'm changing that 3.6v lithium battery in a few days (after these holiday days), let's hope this is the cause of all the problems.

Ah... and Merry Xmas !!!

Be careful. All of those boards before CR2032s used recharging batteries. They are NOT lithium batteries and you should NOT use one. Using a Lithium battery can result in anything from explosive leaking, to catastrophic failure. These boards use basically direct current charging, usable only by Nickle Cadmium batteries (For all real intents and purposes), and using a Lithium battery, ESPECIALLY a non rechargeable battery will result in something going bang, possibly even the board. If that NiCad battery is on battery header, it's likely no header on the board allows for a non recharging battery to be added. Please use a 3.6v NiCad (NOT NiMH or LiIon/LiPo) battery. I suggest for cheapest use getting NiCad 1.2v AAs and constructing a 3.6v pack

The Epson manuals explicitly refer to 3.6V lithium batteries. See here for an example.
Rechargeable versions of such batteries can be bought at any good electronics store (one that sells components). I would be very surprised if an online store such as Conrad Electronics Italia would not have them.

NiCd rechargeable batteries can also cause a lot of damage (including exploding and subsequent fires) if they are presented with the wrong charging method, and you'll have a lot of trouble finding such a battery new in Europe as they are banned since at least a decade. Buying a second-hand NiCd will also be problematic, as these batteries don't hold their charge well over time and also suffer from much degraded performance after laying unused in storage for a while. Lithium and NiMH rechargeables are still available.

Reply 50 of 59, by Elia1995

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

So I'll look for a rechargeable lithium 3.6v AA battery.

Is this correct ? As for the soldering, I don't have any problem, my informatic store will cover that up for me.

Currently assembled vintage computers I own: 11

Most important ones:
A "modded" Olivetti M4 434 S (currently broken).
An Epson El Plus 386DX running MS-DOS 6.22 (currently broken).
Celeron Coppermine 1.10GHz on an M754LMRTP motherboard

Reply 51 of 59, by konc

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
yawetaG wrote:

... Lithium and NiMH rechargeables are still available.

You are very correct in everything you mentioned, just adding a comment on the NiMH batteries: I found that there are NiMH products from respectful brands currently available with the label "NiCd replacement". Mostly 3xAA (3X1.2V = 3.6V) targeting cordless phones. Although some still object to that, NiMH appear to be a safe choice for replacing NiCd. Problems from the not 100% NiCd-oriented charging method translate to decreased NiMH battery life and not fire cracks, which is good.

Reply 52 of 59, by Ampera

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
konc wrote:
yawetaG wrote:

... Lithium and NiMH rechargeables are still available.

You are very correct in everything you mentioned, just adding a comment on the NiMH batteries: I found that there are NiMH products from respectful brands currently available with the label "NiCd replacement". Mostly 3xAA (3X1.2V = 3.6V) targeting cordless phones. Although some still object to that, NiMH appear to be a safe choice for replacing NiCd. Problems from the not 100% NiCd-oriented charging method translate to decreased NiMH battery life and not fire cracks, which is good.

Thing about Nickle Cadmium tech is that you can essentially charge them without needing a trickle charger. Direct current/voltage on the terminals with an overcharge cutoff, and you've got yourself a NiCad charger, and that is not fresh from my ass.

Reply 53 of 59, by yawetaG

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Ampera wrote:
konc wrote:
yawetaG wrote:

... Lithium and NiMH rechargeables are still available.

You are very correct in everything you mentioned, just adding a comment on the NiMH batteries: I found that there are NiMH products from respectful brands currently available with the label "NiCd replacement". Mostly 3xAA (3X1.2V = 3.6V) targeting cordless phones. Although some still object to that, NiMH appear to be a safe choice for replacing NiCd. Problems from the not 100% NiCd-oriented charging method translate to decreased NiMH battery life and not fire cracks, which is good.

Thing about Nickle Cadmium tech is that you can essentially charge them without needing a trickle charger. Direct current/voltage on the terminals with an overcharge cutoff, and you've got yourself a NiCad charger, and that is not fresh from my ass.

Whether that works really depends on the NiCd battery, because not all of them are suited for fast-charging. The same applies to NiMH batteries, some can be fast-charged and others not (it usually says so on the battery). The ones that cannot be fast-charged tend to blow up in quite spectacular and/or fiery fashion if you're unlucky, and even some of those that can be fast-charged can fail spectacularly (look on Youtube for movies). Applying direct voltage with only an overcharge or temperature cut-off is quite primitive (1980s-style), most current fast-chargers monitor the voltage quite precisely according to particular models (e.g. delta-peak). But well, that kind of charging usually isn't used in non-portable computers...

Reply 54 of 59, by Elia1995

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Ok, got the new battery, I connected it in and... guess what ?

nothing changed at all !!!

I guess it ain't the battery ? How can I tell the difference between EDO and FP RAMs ?

Currently assembled vintage computers I own: 11

Most important ones:
A "modded" Olivetti M4 434 S (currently broken).
An Epson El Plus 386DX running MS-DOS 6.22 (currently broken).
Celeron Coppermine 1.10GHz on an M754LMRTP motherboard

Reply 55 of 59, by framer

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I know this is late but for those following this I'll give my 2cents.

Unplug everything form PS except a floppy drive. Does the PS run Yes then PS is good. No, then unplug floppy and plug in HD or different floppy. Does it run Yes, then PS good floppy has problem. Keep unplugging and plugging in different part till the PS fails.

What ever part causes the failure I'd bet 90% shorted capacitor.

You can still get Dallas RTC on the internet I recently paid around $10.00@ for a couple of them.

framer

Reply 56 of 59, by Elia1995

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

It ain't late, since I haven't solved yet and I was awaiting for furhter info.

I'll try as you said, but I have only 2 AT PSU (this one and the one of my 486 PC, which won't fit in that chassis anyway, but that isn't a real problem since I could just give that PC a new chassis, it doesn't really matter much).

I'll try to unplug everything from IDE except the PSU and see what happens, but if, as you said, would be the floppy, or the hardisk, why nothing appears on the monitor at all ?

Currently assembled vintage computers I own: 11

Most important ones:
A "modded" Olivetti M4 434 S (currently broken).
An Epson El Plus 386DX running MS-DOS 6.22 (currently broken).
Celeron Coppermine 1.10GHz on an M754LMRTP motherboard

Reply 57 of 59, by Deksor

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I remember that when I first got my 8088, it didn't POST at all and the PSU fan wasn't running. When I unplugged everything except for the HDD, the fan was running and the board POSTed ! I tried the mfm hdd on another machine and it prevented it to POST too. And this was due to bad caps. Now that they are replaced, this old 20MB MFM hdd works perfectly fine ^^ (and the whole computer in fact)

So as framer said, it might be due to a dead cap. Most of these old boards use tantalum caps. If they do the same thing as my mfm hdd, this means that the resistance of those are 0 ohm making a short circuit

Trying to identify old hardware ? Visit The retro web - Project's thread The Retro Web project - a stason.org/TH99 alternative

Reply 58 of 59, by sf78

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
framer wrote:

You can still get Dallas RTC on the internet I recently paid around $10.00@ for a couple of them.

I've bought 3 of those damn things from different sellers on eBay and only one had more then 3V on it! They are most likely "new old stock" , but could very well be DOA. I had to piggyback a CR2032 to those RTC's that were drained to make them work.

Reply 59 of 59, by Elia1995

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Due to University I don't have much time anymore, these days.
I'll try that probably this weekend and see what results I get with each component detatched from the board.

Currently assembled vintage computers I own: 11

Most important ones:
A "modded" Olivetti M4 434 S (currently broken).
An Epson El Plus 386DX running MS-DOS 6.22 (currently broken).
Celeron Coppermine 1.10GHz on an M754LMRTP motherboard