AGP is generally fine for DOS games - see here https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/

Your card should work well with all of the games you mentioned... I think.

There are plenty of motherboards with AGP, PCI and ISA. You can find them up through (and including) Pentium III and AMD Athlon (e.g. with a Via KT133). Edit: Removed Pentium/K5 as it was correctly pointed out that Half Life is a bit too new for that. (Though I think it may play fine on newer PCs anyway.)

You could choose to get a 3dfx Voodoo2 if you intend to play any DOS games that have 3dfx support (look up a list). You can use them with an Nvidia card. This is not a requirement, just an option. For many Windows games you can use something like nGlide and use your Nvidia card for it. Probably better to have a Pentium 3 or so to do that (again, check lists of Glide games and see if it applies to the games you want to play).

For sound and for some of those games that use MIDI you can get something like an AWE64 or AWE32 and it will sound significantly better than a SB16 for MIDI. You could also go all out and use an external synth module - I will assume you don't want to go so far and I'll just say look up Roland SC-55 if you want to learn more about that. For Windows sound you'll be well off with an Aureal AU8830 Vortex 2 based card like a Turtle Beach Montego II (Quadzilla would be even cooler if you wanted additional speaker outputs) or the Diamond Monster MX300. Dell actually put the TB card in many of their machines around the Pentium 3 era. A lot of the cheaper ones on Ebay are the Vortex (not 2) which is okay but really are cheaper for good reason. Sometimes you can find a 2 for a cheap price, especially if a seller doesn't know the difference and bases their price on the 1. Look for photos that show the chip as AU8830. AU8820 is Vortex 1. I have yet to try the Vortex 2 with DOS games but PhilsComputerLab says it does work well with many later DOS games. It is PCI.

I recommend 2+ ISA slots so you could do stuff like add a Roland MPU-401 MIDI card or something like that. Mainly for sound-related stuff. Though it could be used for other things, perhaps to add an ISA video card with CGA output if you ever wanted to play very old games (if they'll run on a newer CPU... you can try disabling caches in your BIOS as recommended also as recommended by Phil to slow down a machine to work better with older games)

For Half-Life and unreal 1 I wouldn't recommend a pentium mmx or a K5. Even a fast k6 (except maybe for a k6-3 ?) would be on the slow side imo. You would need at least a fast pentium 2 or a pentium 3/amd's equivalent

Thanks for the info both.

With regards to getting a Voodoo card, my plan is to buy and get set up with the TI4200 if I can and then add the Voodoo in down the line (same deal with a DOS soundcard, I don't need one right away, but I would like the ability to add one in later).

Certainly a lot to look for regarding the sound card though. I swear it didn't feel this complex back in the 90s!

But from what I can see I definitely want a P3 processor.

With regards to looking out for motherboards that support all 3 sockets, is there something specific to look for? I've found a couple of no-name brands but I have no idea as to whether they would be even worth considering.

sketchus wrote:

Thanks for the info both. […]
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Thanks for the info both.

With regards to getting a Voodoo card, my plan is to buy and get set up with the TI4200 if I can and then add the Voodoo in down the line (same deal with a DOS soundcard, I don't need one right away, but I would like the ability to add one in later).

Certainly a lot to look for regarding the sound card though. I swear it didn't feel this complex back in the 90s!

But from what I can see I definitely want a P3 processor.

With regards to looking out for motherboards that support all 3 sockets, is there something specific to look for? I've found a couple of no-name brands but I have no idea as to whether they would be even worth considering.

Intel 440BX chipset is probably a little more compatible with DOS games and can take Pentium 2 and Pentium 3 (not the latest P3 generation Tualation, though, as far as I am aware - but that's fine). The Intel P3 chipsets are still generally pretty good in DOS and generally have Windows 98SE driver support. For P3-specific chipsets you could go for something like an 810, 815, 820, perhaps 840 chipset. Do not, however, get an 820 chipset that takes DDR. The MTR chip used to get that support is problematic. That chipset - and the 840 - use RDRAM natively (which is cheap on Ebay so don't fear it).

Edit: super socket 7 with a Via Apollo MVP3 chipset and a K6-3 will likely work as well. Go with a faster K6-3 and consider a K6-3+ which uses a lower voltage and makes less heat.

Deksor wrote:

For Half-Life and unreal 1 I wouldn't recommend a pentium mmx or a K5. Even a fast k6 (except maybe for a k6-3 ?) would be on the slow side imo. You would need at least a fast pentium 2 or a pentium 3/amd's equivalent

Good point. I overlooked that one. I've edited my post with this correction.

Oh, another thing, a lot of motherboards of the Athlon/P3 era had a problem with bad capacitors from brands like Teapo. Companies like Abit (who generally otherwise had pretty good products, or at least they did in the years after until they came out with their heatsink-instead-of-I/O-connector idea) used them. Ideally find brands that tended to use Japanese capacitors like Nichicon (capacitors, not motherboards) or perhaps Panasonic. Rubycon is sort of acceptable. I find that a lot of times the caps by the AGP slot go bad because of video cards making too much heat in close proximity and those older cards don't have the heavy duty cooling systems the newer ones do with a duct out the back of the card.

I don't have a list of brands of motherboard that used Nichicon. You can try searching to find it or you can look at photos of motherboards and either see if you can read the brand (which will be tough) or use a capacitor identification guide (you'll find one with a Google search). Really the limiting factor is availability especially if you don't have local thrift stores carrying super old PCs.

How about the Via C3 Socket 370 approach? That way you would have ISA slots, be able to slow down thr system for DOS stuff and still play the later games as well.

ABIT motherboards are great for overclocking/underclocking but they used crappy caps. Got a BE6 board in my 98 build now, overclocked P3 coppermine 600 in it. 440BX chipset's rock solid, and it's got AGP PCI and ISA slots.

OK, thanks for the information. Having the two ISA slots seems like a good idea to me as I can look at expanding down the line. Having a quick Scan on ebay, I was able to find this, which doesn't seem obviously branded, but as a starting point it looks possibly good?

I don't know if it's just a bad time but (I'm in the UK), I'm struggling to find a lot of valid options on the UK site.

I

The caps are fine but the handling there bothers me. PCBs should never be put on any kind of bubble wrap, not even pink, and I'm not sure if that stuff is even the pink stuff. The regular stuff tends to generate quite a lot of static. That board may be working when you get it if you were to order it, but order with caution. Also, not much in the way of caps down by the expansion slots, which makes it seem more of an OEM style board which might not be ideal for relatively-high-power video cards that don't have Molex power connectors on them. It'll probably be fine with your card though but would likely not be the best for overclocking the card or anything. But honestly the bubble wrap worries me more. It could be fine though.

Edit: Just noticed the Compaq logo... doh... Pretty damn obvious. With boards from OEMs like Dell/HP/Compaq/etc. you have to be careful of potential proprietary connectors or wiring. Not all machines from those companies did this but some did and you'd need to look it up and possibly rewire the connector of a standard PSU (by using a ~$10 pin extraction tool and a wiring diagram of the Compaq PSU if you can find one) if it is indeed proprietary.

Edit again: Sometimes you can find entire old computers for similar prices to specific pieces of hardware. Though keep in mind that power supplies also have caps that can go bad, especially old ones. But at least on US Ebay, prices can vary quite a lot. You might find motherboards for $20, or you might find them for $150. Depends on when you look. Check the "sold items" box and see if anyone's bought anything lately and if so at what price. And you can look into Amibay or thrift store options if you have any nearby that handle old computers. Some people say that works out for them.

Interesting, thank you for the info, it's not something I'd honestly have considered, but you're certainly right and it's somewhat got me doubting now.

The seller does have a 30 day return policy though which is a little better.

Out of interest, is there any sitution where you could have ISA slots combines with just PCI slots? I know I have the AGP card already, but for the sake of simplicity, I'd be willing to go that way if it's easier.

You may find super socket 7 motherboards without AGP - not sure. You will definitely find socket 7 motherboards without it but they generally aren't ideal for K6-2 or K6-3 (though some may work well, not sure).

I have no idea if you'll find a 440BX board without AGP for a Pentium 2/3. I'm sure boards like that exist, but not sure if consumer-oriented boards like that exist, especially from decent brands.

Edit: You'll also have MUCH less selection of video cards to play games like Half Life, though it is still possible. Prices for decent PCI video cards will generally be higher than AGP since supply is lower (most people who wanted good graphics cards went AGP).

OK, well it's something to note. I'm gonna stick to AGP, if possible, especially since I already have the hard ware.

This mobo did catch my eye too, but it's apparently a Digimate which I've not once heard of, and unfortunately the picture isn't great, however the seller is claiming it as new.

I also contacted a local PC store and they said they'd give me a ring, they think they have a few AGP pc's lying around so I could potentially have a line into something there.

I've also never heard of that brand and unfortunately the picture is too noisy for me to have any idea on the caps. It does have more caps overall and more around the AGP slot (though not very large but still more than the Compaq) which means it's more of an enthusiast board but possibly a cheap one, not sure. Some of the caps look sort of blue which to me signals potential danger.

I'm not certain of any of that because the pictures are so LQ. Maybe someone else is familiar with the brand, or you could Google it. If you don't find much, it's probably not a good brand, though there would still be a chance that it's a decent product.

That said, it's better to go with an Intel chipset, not Via, if possible. But not necessarily a requirement.

Yes, you're right. I think I might try and just stick to finding something locally. Couldn't find a peep on that manufacturer (Digimate?!)

I am feeling hamstrung by the need for an ISA slot. I could fairly easily get a good Socket 478 board and build from there, but finding one with an ISA slot is not easy.

Also make sure to simply put the word out with friends and family... ask them if they or anyone they know have any old computer stuff they'd like to get rid of, and that you'd be willing to pick it up if so. Heck, even if you got non-suitable systems for this build, you could either use them for other games of the appropriate era(s) or refurbish and resell.

I looked up your card, the GeForce 4TI 4200. It has an AGP 4x bus, so I'd shoot for either 4x or 8x support on the motherboard. Also, target the 1GHz or faster area. I'd shoot for something that would fit either a 1GHz Pentium III or Athlon...or if you want faster, the Pentium 4 and Athlon XP systems were powerful enough to run Windows XP (I know you said W98, I'm not suggesting XP, just comparing system strengths).

If you can find a Creative Labs AWE64 ISA, that will take care of just about all of your sound needs in Windows and DOS - as long as you don't care about 3D Positional Audio and weird effects like that. Not having those never bothered me, so I never bothered in Windows 98. I have that on my XP rig, though, with the Sound Blaster Live 5.1! PCI.

Target 128MB of RAM as a minimum, 256MB is ideal for Windows 98 and ALL the games you could possibly want up through DirectX 7. I like the idea of adding a Voodoo2 PCI card later for GLIDE support in the games that use it. Games that had it were usually faster running and prettier than using D3D at the time, though your GeForce 4 is WAY more powerful than the Voodoo2 card is.

If you're looking for other add-ons, consider also a USB 2.0 PCI card. I know my Athlon XP motherboard only had USB 1.1 on-board, so I added a USB 2.0 card to get the faster speeds. However, it was PCI 2.2 compliant, not 2.1, so you have to watch your MB specs more carefully. Anything Pentium III-4 or Athlon era should work, but it DID NOT work on my ASUS P2B motherboard (the Intel 440BX everyone touts on this forum). On THAT mb, it locked the system during POST, no beep codes, no errors, no screen, nothing. Worked perfectly fine in a newer MB that supported PCI 2.2.

Just a few things for you to think about.

sketchus wrote:

OK, thanks for the information. Having the two ISA slots seems like a good idea to me as I can look at expanding down the line. Having a quick Scan on ebay, I was able to find this, which doesn't seem obviously branded, but as a starting point it looks possibly good?

Image showng what looks like a "i440BX COMPAQ 118053-001 SLOT 1 DESKPRO EP/EN" motherboard.

I don't know if it's just a bad time but (I'm in the UK), I'm struggling to find a lot of valid options on the UK site.

If it is what I think it is then this motherboard is very solid. It should be perfect for a 1998 PII 450 + Voodoo II build.

Compaq used a non standard PSU but I have used normal ATX PSUs with these boards and it has worked fine for me (YMMV).

The PSU dfference is that on some Compaq PSUs from this time period the "power good" signal is replaced with 3.3VSB (I doubt this motherboard uses 3.3VSB but it can probably accept a PSU with 3.3VSB on this pin) and the power on signal is "inverted". The inverted power on signal doesn't seem to make any dfference if this board even has it. When I power on the PSU the board starts automaticly the frst time but after one power cycle everything works just as with any other board from there on.

Perhaps it's only servers and server PSUs which actually have the inverted power on signal, the sources do not seem to agree with each other.

There are perhaps some minor other differences but they do not seem to matter at all and were not even listed at some other page I checked before hooking up a normal ATX PSU but they are indicated on the page linked below.

I think in this case the danger is hooking up a Compaq PSU with 3.3VSB on the "power good" pin to a normal ATX board and not the other way around but I can of course not guarantee it will work just because it worked with my boards and PSUs.

Here is a link to the Compaq PSU pinout.

http://pinouts.ru/Power/compaq_psu_pinout.shtml

edt

fixed some typos

Idk, GeForce 4 is a bit OP. Here is my build, which you can follow almost exactly if you like.

Slot 1, Intel SE440BX-2 motherboard. Intel mobos are usually safe on compatibility and capacitor side.

GeForce 2 MX, A GeForce 4 Ti is not TOO overkill, but that's the sorta think you'd be running Half-Life 2 with on a Socket A machine.

Sound Blaster Live! Value. This is controversial. If your DOS games work in DOS in Window, then it's fine. I know for a fact that Duke3D works 100% fine with DOS in Window. Set it to whatever MIDI device you want, load a great soundfont, and boom. For DOOM use ZDoom. Any Windows 98 machine can handle I think the most modern version (If not a very recent one) of ZDoom. Keep in mind, DOOM is VERY CPU intensive. You will LITERALLY get better framed in Half-Life 1 than you will in DOOM. The BIG Snafu with the AWE64 and ANY ISA card is there is no full DMA on ISA. Everything is through the CPU, so there will be greater overhead, and you can almost forget about a decent soundfont as AWE64 memory expansions are impossible. This card can load soundfonts up to 512MB large (If your memory can hold it). The decision is do you REALLY need 120% DOS compatibility, or can you deal with a few games not working? Because you are not giving up nothing with the AWE64.

The CPU is a Pentium 3 450mhz with 512k of cache on a 100Mhz FSB. This is your basic, cheapest P3. It will work fine, don't get me wrong, but there ARE faster cards if you want it. You can go up to around 1Ghz in speed with some boards, which may fit your GPU better, but faster the Pentium 3, higher the cost. Also keep in mind, some people will be dipshits and leave out the cooler for the card. If you want to buy one yourself and apply it, go ahead. Also be wary of OEM parts with no fans on them. I have one, and I have two high static pressure fans directed at them full tilt. It stays PERFECTLY cool, and you could do with regular fans, but keep some airflow on them.

I have 384MB of RAM from 1-800-4-memory (http://www.ebay.com/itm/330591601413). CHECK THE MEMORY YOU GOT IS WHAT YOU ORDERED. This happened to me before when I ordered FPM RAM and I got EDO. They took it back no charge, but BE WARY OF THIS!. But when they DO send you the right part, it works 100% fine. I love these guys because their prices are dirt cheap, and they are near me. Your location may vary. Some people say this board can take twice the RAM, but be aware that Windows 98 has a strange limit of 512MB for RAM. There may be a work around, IDK, look it up yourself, but keep that in mind.

As for a hard drive, I use a 40GB WD400. If you want to keep your sanity intact, DO NOT USE THIS DRIVE. It is the loudest drive I own, but it just happened to be around what I wanted in this case. You can use anything from a good 8-10GB drive, but for larger games, you can go all the way up to around 160GB. Don't break my heart and use an SSD plz, I will cry.

I also suggest a DVD+RW burner and that you get a cheapie spindle of DVD+RWs. I use these when I need to transfer file to and from this machine. Forget USB flash drives, USB 1.1 is slow af. Unless you have a firewire or USB 2 card and drive, DVD+RWs will work both ways perfectly fine. CDBurnerXP 3 for the 98 machine, and whatever you like on your main PC, you can store up to 4.7GB on a disc, and you will never hit the re-write limit as long as you life (If you do, they are cheap to replace). DVD+RWs tend to be better than DVD-RWs, but DVD-RWs have better communicability with some drives (Ignore this if your drive is DVD+/-RW

Your situation may vary. Nothing older than a Pentium 3 for Half-Life 1, it will not run well. My rig can pull HL1 on 100% playable frames max settings with no lagspikes 1280x1024, which is about as good as you can get. SB Live! has a bad rep for DOS, but it tends to work better with DOS in window, and it will run on several games. You COULD try DOSBox, but that is a bit dicey with such a slow CPU.

If you want to push a bit newer, Socket A is a good idea, and it will work with your GeForce 2MX better. ABIT is a good choice for Socket A as their caps on that platform have improved since Slot 1/A. ASUS, MSI, BIOSTAR, and other modern brands are fine too.

Another good sound card could be the YMF724. This sound card is PCI, but when you use the SB_link cable under MS-DOS, you get pretty munch the same compatibility as an isa sound card. This card contrains a real OPL3. Even the SB live or the AWE64 don't have one anymore. Under windows, the dos compatibility is a bit worse (duke 3D crashes for me when you use the sfx, but it's fine under DOS), but you get the Yamaha XG synth which also sounds great for games. Final Fantasy pc music was designed for it, so it sounds better on it. You also have the YMF719 which is almost the same thing except that it's for ISA and that you don't have the XG synth.

For the hdd, my pentium 2 rig has a maxtor single platter HDD. Yeah maxtor has a bad reputation, but I've never seen one of these single platter ones fail, and it is also super silent. Just one thing to take in account : if the bios of your motherboard is made by award and it's from 1998/early 1999, you won't be able to use any hdd bigger than 32GB unless you limit the capacity to 32GB with a jumper. To solve that problem, you'll have to update your bios