VOGONS


First post, by Almoststew1990

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Hi there!

I have put together the following PC:

Windows 98SE 4.10.2222.A
ASUS P2B (1014 Beta 3 BIOS, 440BX Chipset drivers 2.9)
PII 450MHz
128MB PC-100 SDRAM
Riva TNT2 Pro 16MB (45.23, DirectX8)
160GB HDD with a 30GB primary partition from around 2004

I am getting poor performance in all games. I have put a few examples below (with their minimum requirements shown in brackets), when I play at low settings at 640*480 (Measured in FRAPS, which I appeciate takes up a few FPS):

Driver (200MHz / 32MB RAM / 2MB VRAM) = frequent drops to <10fps, manages 25 on open highway
Test Drive Le Mans /Le Mans 24h (266MHz / 32MB RAM / 8MB VRAM) = 15-25fps
No One Lives Forever (300MHz / 64MB RAM / 8MB VRAM) = 20-35fps
Delta Force 2 (400MHz / 64MB / Riva TNT) = <15fps

3DMark 1999: 3,628
3DMark 2000: 1,604
3DMark 2001: 606

It's a freshly install of Windows 98SE on a recently formatted HDD. Are my frame rates to be expected or has something gone wrong?

Last edited by Almoststew1990 on 2017-03-17, 21:36. Edited 2 times in total.

Ryzen 3700X | 16GB 3600MHz RAM | AMD 6800XT | 2Tb NVME SSD | Windows 10
AMD DX2-80 | 16MB RAM | STB LIghtspeed 128 | AWE32 CT3910
I have a vacancy for a main Windows 98 PC

Reply 1 of 9, by deleted_Rc

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Those are usually minimum requirements so it's to expected. Just incase get latest geforce drivers and update your windows.
I got a slightly more powerful build right now so I'll give it a try on my PII this weekend. What fps program did you use?
What's your benchmark score in the regular benchmarks?

Reply 2 of 9, by Almoststew1990

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Thanks for the help, i'll run 3DMark 99-2001 and see what I get. I'm using FRAPS 1.9D (although obviously I'll shut it down for the 3DMark runs!).

Richo wrote:

Those are usually minimum requirements so it's to expected.

Even though my PC has getting on for "double the specification" of some of those requirements?

Richo wrote:

Just incase get latest geforce drivers and update your windows

What W9x drivers do you recommend- I thought going above the version 40's was a bad idea under Windows 98?

Ryzen 3700X | 16GB 3600MHz RAM | AMD 6800XT | 2Tb NVME SSD | Windows 10
AMD DX2-80 | 16MB RAM | STB LIghtspeed 128 | AWE32 CT3910
I have a vacancy for a main Windows 98 PC

Reply 3 of 9, by Almoststew1990

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3DMark 1999: 3,628
3DMark 2000: 1,604
3DMark 2001: 606

Ryzen 3700X | 16GB 3600MHz RAM | AMD 6800XT | 2Tb NVME SSD | Windows 10
AMD DX2-80 | 16MB RAM | STB LIghtspeed 128 | AWE32 CT3910
I have a vacancy for a main Windows 98 PC

Reply 5 of 9, by Almoststew1990

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mrau wrote:

why not dx7? why did you choose this driver anyway?you really should try older ones, you can install newer ones later anyway if im wrong; ver 12 or so is imho the latest to try

I was on DX7 untill I installed 3DMark 2001 just now, which needs Dx8, so the game framerates are using DX7. I was indeed running version 12.41 for a while, but had the same performance (as I did in 6.18). Also, overclocking my GPU makes no difference to the framerate too 😒

Ryzen 3700X | 16GB 3600MHz RAM | AMD 6800XT | 2Tb NVME SSD | Windows 10
AMD DX2-80 | 16MB RAM | STB LIghtspeed 128 | AWE32 CT3910
I have a vacancy for a main Windows 98 PC

Reply 6 of 9, by Deksor

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I've got a PC with similar specs (128MB of ram, P2 400@496MHz) but with my voodoo 2 SLI I ran Driver at 1024*768 with all settings maxed out with no problems so the CPU (and probably neither the GPU) is the problem here.

Just a dumb question ... are you sure that L2 cache is enabled. I don't know why it would be, but it's the only thing that comes up to my mind at this point

Trying to identify old hardware ? Visit The retro web - Project's thread The Retro Web project - a stason.org/TH99 alternative

Reply 7 of 9, by meljor

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Grabbed an Asus P2B and put on a p2-450, 128mb sdram (fastest timings in bios), Diamond Viper v770 (TNT2 125/150mhz speeds, 32mb agp) and did run some benchmarks for you:

3dmark99 (800x600 default) 3852 3dmarks
3dmark2000 (1024x768 default) 1648 3dmarks

So yeah, your scores are fine. I'm running on a very dirty windows 98se on a testdisk with a lot of different drivers for voodoo's, Nvidia's and Ati's so on a clean install it might be a little bit faster.
I did this run on the old 7.76 driver which should be good for a tnt2. Your scores are a little bit lower as you have the 16mb version of the graphics card.

3dmark2000 (and higher) are hardware TnL benchmarks so the tnt2 will never perform great in these benchmarks.

If you want to decide on a small upgradepath for that setup i did some benchies with the same components and the same driver and a geforce2 mx400 64mb and a geforce2 GTS 32mb:

3dmark99: MX: 3759 3dmarks, GTS: 3839 3dmarks
3dmark2000: MX 3572 3dmarks, GTS: 3796 3dmarks

So my conclusion:

Older games up to 99/2000 should run fine on your system, later cards will not be much faster on normal game settings. Running those games on higher resolutions,AA or 32bit color i would prefer a geforce in that system.

Running games that support hardware TnL will be much faster on a geforce2/mx card. A geforce2 GTS (or later) card will not be much faster on your system compared to a geforce2 MX because of the cpu that becomes a bottleneck.

Good luck.

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Reply 8 of 9, by leileilol

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The framerates you mentioned on the OP are also fine. Delta Force 2's hardware acceleration is a joke (it's sitll a software renderer). NOLF is a CPU hog that will even bottleneck a Geforce2.

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Reply 9 of 9, by brostenen

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Almoststew1990 wrote:

3DMark 1999: 3,628
3DMark 2000: 1,604
3DMark 2001: 606

Sounds just about right.
Do you have any plans for upgrading you'r machine to the fastest P-III it can handle plus 512mb Ram?

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

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