VOGONS


First post, by 0101000000110101

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Greetings everyone, I have stumbled onto this fourm several times over the years, and have finally decided to become part of the community.

I have noticed a fine amount of Gateway 2000s being brought up here, which is nice.

In my situation, I'm trying my absolute hardest to give my Gateway 2000 P5-120 (Which uses the late 80s AT configuration) MMX capabilities, for running a far larger amount of programs and games, such as GTA III, Need For Speed Most Wanted, and newer versions of my favorite 3D animation software Blender.

Here is some useful information about my system;

Socket 5 (originally had a 120Mhz Pentium 1)

The BIOS always shows that CPU regardless of a CPU swap

It has 128MB of EDO RAM

Its new graphics card is a (poorly manufacturered) MSI PCI GeForce 6200 256MB

I have it running Windows XP SP3

So I began with a 166Mhz Pentim OverDrive, which in Windows showed up to run at 159Mhz, and when I launched a program that requires MMX instructions, my computer would restart. Some online sources point to a PSU upgrade, I have attempted this with two different power supplies, and the same result was given.

Today I tried a slightly older Pentium 1 MMX 233Mhz, which looks like the Slot 1 celerons that were re-engineered for socket 370 boards. The result was an apparent frequency of 119Mhz, and when MMX programs are launched, they now cause the system to blue screen, which is progress I guess.

Now that you have full context as to what I have and where I stand, perhaps you guys could share some input.

Thanks guys.

1995 Gateway 2000 P5-120
Intel Pentium P5 120Mhz
16MB EDO RAM
1MB Trident 3D capable GPU
250GB Western Digital IDE drive
OS(s): Windows 98/Windows 2000 SP1

Reply 1 of 27, by Jade Falcon

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P5, by chance did you change the FSB, clock multi and cpu voltage jumpers when changing the cpu?
Sounds like the cpu voltage is off crashing the system and the clock speed is likely off do to a low FSB or clock multi.

Also make sure you have a good clean OS install and no bad caps on the motherboard.
And XP is a little to much for a old Pentium 1 system, Id opt for 9x or 2k if I were you.

Reply 2 of 27, by 0101000000110101

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Thanks for the super quick reply.
I have never done this before, so I'm a little clueless in this area.

I'm pretty sure the first image is what I'm looking for, though I'm not sure, the only other jumper I found that I did not recognise was one in the second image
http://www.mediafire.com/view/cl88v8c1vsiee2l … DR372557541.jpg
https://www.mediafire.com/view/cl88v8c1vsiee2 … DR372557541.jpg

Assuming that the first image is indeed the voltage controller settings, what should I set each or a few to?

I would reffer to the manual, but there doesn't appear to be any for a model like this anymore.

As for Windows XP being a bit much for a Pentium 1, I'm aware. I selected Windows XP specifically for application compatibility reasons. In addition to that the OS runs fine, if not a little faster than a Willamette Pentium 4 if I'm being honest.

1995 Gateway 2000 P5-120
Intel Pentium P5 120Mhz
16MB EDO RAM
1MB Trident 3D capable GPU
250GB Western Digital IDE drive
OS(s): Windows 98/Windows 2000 SP1

Reply 3 of 27, by meljor

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Socket5 usually means 3,3v cpu's only, which means it's a bit too much for the mmx cpu's, they run at 2,8v.

It can be done stable if you use a good cooler and a layer of cooling paste. Running it without a cooler will give you real problems and can kill the chip, even the p120 needs a bit of cooling.

I don't know if the mmx portion of the cpu needs a bios update to really work well, if it does you're screwed as there wil not be an update for that socket5 (as it is a 3,3v only board). I think it will work just fine but will be recognized as a normal pentium.

The 233mmx needs the 3,5x66fsb setting (and the socket5 will not have that setting). 1,5x66fsb will also work as the 1,5x will be seen by the cpu as 3,5x. Your 120 runs at 2x60fsb. Your jumpers are still at 2x60fsb and that's why you see 119 or 120mhz as the cpu will not run faster, you need to change the jumpers.

Your blue screens are probably due to the fact that you are not cooling that 2,8v cpu running with 3,3v......

Xp on a pentium1 is a joke, it runs best with win95 but win98 is also fine.

Try and find that motherboard manual and read it, you lack the basic knowledge that you really need for these systems and the manual is where that wisdom is.... you can also try to find another socket5 manual from a board that has the same chipset to get the basic understandings, usually they are quite the same but will have different jumpers and/or jumper locations ofcourse.

Good luck!

asus tx97-e, 233mmx, voodoo1, s3 virge ,sb16
asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
asus p3b-f, p3-700, voodoo3 3500TV agp, awe64
asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1

Reply 4 of 27, by lazibayer

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0101000000110101 wrote:
Thanks for the super quick reply. I have never done this before, so I'm a little clueless in this area. […]
Show full quote

Thanks for the super quick reply.
I have never done this before, so I'm a little clueless in this area.

I'm pretty sure the first image is what I'm looking for, though I'm not sure, the only other jumper I found that I did not recognise was one in the second image
http://www.mediafire.com/view/cl88v8c1vsiee2l … DR372557541.jpg
https://www.mediafire.com/view/cl88v8c1vsiee2 … DR372557541.jpg

Assuming that the first image is indeed the voltage controller settings, what should I set each or a few to?

I would reffer to the manual, but there doesn't appear to be any for a model like this anymore.

As for Windows XP being a bit much for a Pentium 1, I'm aware. I selected Windows XP specifically for application compatibility reasons. In addition to that the OS runs fine, if not a little faster than a Willamette Pentium 4 if I'm being honest.

They are the same image 😀
It looks like a clear-CMOS jumper - REC = recovery, NORM = normal.

Reply 5 of 27, by Skyscraper

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If you want a real upgrade the P233 MMX is probably your best bet.

You need to set the jumpers on the motherboard to the setting for a Pentium 100 MHz (1.5x multiplier, 66 MHz FSB) and the P233 MMX (non Overdrive) will run at 3.5x 66MHz = 233 MHz as it interprets the 1.5x multiplier as 3.5x.

The CPU will get 3.3V instad of the 2.8V it's made for, this is not much of an issue if you exchange the heat sink with a larger one. The heat sink with fan that comes with Socket 370 Celerons and Pentium IIIs is good enough. It's also a good idea to add a quit fan that cools the VRM area of the motherboard as the P233 MMX takes a bit of extra power when fed with 3.3V.

Edit

Bah, others were faster

/Edit

Last edited by Skyscraper on 2017-06-15, 19:19. Edited 2 times in total.

New PC: i9 12900K @5GHz all cores @1.2v. MSI PRO Z690-A. 32GB DDR4 3600 CL14. 3070Ti.
Old PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6GHz, EVGA SR-2, 48GB DDR3R@2000MHz, Intel X25-M. GTX 980ti.
Older PC: K6-3+ 400@600MHz, PC-Chips M577, 256MB SDRAM, AWE64, Voodoo Banshee.

Reply 6 of 27, by 0101000000110101

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rip, trying to do all of this through mobile.

Anyways, the other image was supposed to be this-

http://www.mediafire.com/view/cl88v8c1vsiee2l … R372557541.jpg#

Edit;

I don't see any voltage jumpers on the board, or settings in the BIOS.
http://www.mediafire.com/view/4q9epiunto43qac … DR503386174.jpg

*sigh* freaking phone

THIS was the image I was trying to share that has way more settings;
http://www.mediafire.com/view/9jg3e7x614u71qf … R-393867096.jpg

Last edited by 0101000000110101 on 2017-06-15, 19:42. Edited 3 times in total.

1995 Gateway 2000 P5-120
Intel Pentium P5 120Mhz
16MB EDO RAM
1MB Trident 3D capable GPU
250GB Western Digital IDE drive
OS(s): Windows 98/Windows 2000 SP1

Reply 7 of 27, by meljor

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0101000000110101 wrote:

rip, trying to do all of this through mobile.

Anyways, the other image was supposed to be this-

http://www.mediafire.com/view/cl88v8c1vsiee2l … R372557541.jpg#

still the same image.. but it doesn't really matter when it comes to voltage: socket5 doesn't support 2,8v

asus tx97-e, 233mmx, voodoo1, s3 virge ,sb16
asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
asus p3b-f, p3-700, voodoo3 3500TV agp, awe64
asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1

Reply 8 of 27, by 0101000000110101

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Fixed in my last post. 10/10 Android OS

Also, I'm not trying to vastly improve the performance of this system, nothing like that at all. I'm simply trying to get the slowest Pentium CPU with MMX instructions running in here.

1995 Gateway 2000 P5-120
Intel Pentium P5 120Mhz
16MB EDO RAM
1MB Trident 3D capable GPU
250GB Western Digital IDE drive
OS(s): Windows 98/Windows 2000 SP1

Reply 9 of 27, by lazibayer

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The jumper block:

1, Fast ISA - not sure
2, VRE - core voltage: on = 3.4-3.6V, off = 3.135- 3.6V - better be off for MMX cpus
3, clear password
4, clear CMOS - so the previous guess of mine was wrong. 2nd guess: it's for BIOS flashing protection.
5, unlabeled
6, BF - this is the multiplier jumper. Pentium has 2 BF pins so I guess Pins 5 and 6 are both responsible for multiplier setting, but it's also common on early boards that only one pin is jumper-able.
7, 8, - they are bus speed jumpers: 75 = 50MHz, 90 = 60MHz, 100 = 66MHz. You want 66MHz for 166 or 233 CPUs. Note that there is one more combination without labeling; I guess it's 40MHz. Or 75MHz - in which case you luck out.
Are you sure the overdrive is MMX overdrive, not non-MMX overdrive? They both exist.

Reply 10 of 27, by 0101000000110101

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I tried each frequency jumper setting with core voltage set to off, it still restarts when launching anything that requires MMX, in this case GTA III

1995 Gateway 2000 P5-120
Intel Pentium P5 120Mhz
16MB EDO RAM
1MB Trident 3D capable GPU
250GB Western Digital IDE drive
OS(s): Windows 98/Windows 2000 SP1

Reply 11 of 27, by jheronimus

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In my situation, I'm trying my absolute hardest to give my Gateway 2000 P5-120 (Which uses the late 80s AT configuration) MMX capabilities, for running a far larger amount of programs and games, such as GTA III, Need For Speed Most Wanted, and newer versions of my favorite 3D animation software Blender.

You won't be able to run GTA III on P-MMX. Back in the day I tried playing it on a PII@233 and it was basically unplayable. Same goes for Most Wanted (it's a 2005 game, after all) and Blender. Here you can see it running on AMD K6-2@500 (a CPU that is somewhere between MMX and P2) and it's single digit FPS all the time. You really need something like a PIII for GTA3 and a much later platform for NFS.

MR BIOS catalog
Unicore catalog

Reply 12 of 27, by kanecvr

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0101000000110101 wrote:

In my situation, I'm trying my absolute hardest to give my Gateway 2000 P5-120 (Which uses the late 80s AT configuration) MMX capabilities, for running a far larger amount of programs and games, such as GTA III, Need For Speed Most Wanted, and newer versions of my favorite 3D animation software Blender.

That's just not gonna happen. You are greatly overestimating the capabilities of a pentium MMX. Even a pentium III will struggle with those games /apps.

0101000000110101 wrote:

The BIOS always shows that CPU regardless of a CPU swap

That is because you did not reconfigure the jumpers on the motherboard. FIrst off, socket 5 does not support MMX CPUs. Second, MMX will not give you any advantage. The games listed above will either refuse to run because they will lack other CPU features (minimum requirement is a Pentium III for both, so I'd imagine they both require SSE) and if they do run it will be a slideshow. A slow one.

0101000000110101 wrote:

It has 128MB of EDO RAM

Remove half of that. The chipset that gateway 2000 motherboard is running cannot cache more then 64mb. Using twice that will make it SLOW.

0101000000110101 wrote:

Its new graphics card is a (poorly manufacturered) MSI PCI GeForce 6200 256MB

It's gonna run like carp. Newer video card drivers expect newer CPUs to do some of the work. Sticking a 6200 in a pentium 1 will make it useless (I know out of experience).

Good luck with your "experiment".

Reply 13 of 27, by 0101000000110101

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Regardless of GTA III+s system requirements, I have tested and seen others run GTA SA on MMX, no, I don't see an advantage with MMX, it's just a requirement for most of the software I use. I'm greatly dissappointed that socket 5 doesn't support MMX CPUs, I was very excited to use my Gateway 2000 for some gaming and have some pretty mindblowing graphics running on it. Yeah I was pretty much expecting a maximum of 10FPS and lower in games.

As for the GeForce 6200, it's pretty much all I have laying around aside from the well constructed PNY 6200, from my experience in a pentium ii/Mendocino celeron system, it does fine.

I will go ahead and push myself to study C++ and build a game engine on IA-32, I have been wanting to for quite some time and now I have the time to do so.

In the mean time, I have my HP Pavilion 8275 with a 233Mhz Pentium ii to game on.

Thank you guys, I appreciate you.

1995 Gateway 2000 P5-120
Intel Pentium P5 120Mhz
16MB EDO RAM
1MB Trident 3D capable GPU
250GB Western Digital IDE drive
OS(s): Windows 98/Windows 2000 SP1

Reply 14 of 27, by gdjacobs

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The socket 5 not officially supporting MMX cpus is more a function of the supply voltage available. You can run it, but it will require additional cooling and be slightly harder on the CPU or an interposer to convert to the proper CPU voltage. To know for sure whether there's a compatibility problem, I recommend booting into pure DOS 6.22 and running Speedsys*. The memory copy benchmarks will test with MMX if it's available.
http://forum.benchmarkreviews.com/showthread.php?p=15023

FWIW, I suspect that Gateway system will be excellent for DOS gaming and well worth keeping.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 15 of 27, by 0101000000110101

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HOLD ON JUST A MINUTE,

My other computers were beginning to restart on certain applications as well. I was enraged, it was too coincidental to be true, and sure enough, after tearing out the stupid GeForce 6200 and using onboard graphics on a Mendocino Celeron system of mine, everything was stable, it was the bloody GeForce 6200. What a crappy grapics card. Well then, time to search for a different PCI graphics card. So my Gateway probably can run GTA III and stuff dangit. Any recomendations for stable PCI graphics cards that are about GeForce 4 performance or better guys?

Also, I will NEVER get rid of my Gateway 2000, it is my baby. I love it so much.

1995 Gateway 2000 P5-120
Intel Pentium P5 120Mhz
16MB EDO RAM
1MB Trident 3D capable GPU
250GB Western Digital IDE drive
OS(s): Windows 98/Windows 2000 SP1

Reply 16 of 27, by lazibayer

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0101000000110101 wrote:

HOLD ON JUST A MINUTE,

My other computers were beginning to restart on certain applications as well. I was enraged, it was too coincidental to be true, and sure enough, after tearing out the stupid GeForce 6200 and using onboard graphics on a Mendocino Celeron system of mine, everything was stable, it was the bloody GeForce 6200. What a crappy grapics card. Well then, time to search for a different PCI graphics card. So my Gateway probably can run GTA III and stuff dangit. Any recomendations for stable PCI graphics cards that are about GeForce 4 performance or better guys?

Also, I will NEVER get rid of my Gateway 2000, it is my baby. I love it so much.

TNT2 M64 is highly regarded for old PCI systems. Voodoo3 is probably better but much more expensive and rarer.
The bottleneck is at the CPU. Newer PCI card may also have hiccups with old PCI boards.

Reply 17 of 27, by ODwilly

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Geforce 4 mx cards can be found in pci. Overkill for your needs tho 🤣

Main pc: Asus ROG 17. R9 5900HX, RTX 3070m, 16gb ddr4 3200, 1tb NVME.
Retro PC: Soyo P4S Dragon, 3gb ddr 266, 120gb Maxtor, Geforce Fx 5950 Ultra, SB Live! 5.1

Reply 18 of 27, by feipoa

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Does the P166 overdrive have the voltage regulator onboard? If so, this is the CPU I'd try to get working first. When the jumpers and CMOS settings are optimised for this CPU, I would then begin experimenting with MMX CPUs.

Weren't there Socket 5 - to - Socket 7 VRM interposer boards? You might want to hunt one of these down.

For graphics cards, it sounds like you want to go overkill. TNT, TNT2, Geforce 256, GF2MX, and GF4MX came in PCI formats. Voodoo3, Radeon 7000, and Matrox G400 Max also come to mind. Very often, when going overkill on the graphics card, you must try out several driver versions to find the one which will function with older CPUs.

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 19 of 27, by 0101000000110101

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Yeah, overkill so that the GPU doesn't get in the way with compatability and performance of games so I can go strictly focus on CPU. I'm going to try a Radeon x1300 PCI, then if that fails try a GeForce 4 MX PCI

1995 Gateway 2000 P5-120
Intel Pentium P5 120Mhz
16MB EDO RAM
1MB Trident 3D capable GPU
250GB Western Digital IDE drive
OS(s): Windows 98/Windows 2000 SP1