I guess there's no one answer here, but I don't absolutely need an _old_ keyboard. As no one mentioned specific trouble in games, I'm guessing I just need to replace mine with something decent. It is true that laptop keyboards feel lousy for everything, though, the most you can say is at least they beat smartphones and you _can_ type with them.

koverhbarc wrote:

I guess there's no one answer here, but I don't absolutely need an _old_ keyboard. As no one mentioned specific trouble in games, I'm guessing I just need to replace mine with something decent. It is true that laptop keyboards feel lousy for everything, though, the most you can say is at least they beat smartphones and you _can_ type with them.

If you want a good keyboard for PC. There are a few choices. Either go with a legacy 5 PIN DIN style from earlier IBM PC/XT/AT days. Mechanical. Use a 5 PIN DIN to PS/2 adapter and it works fine.
Now if you are dealing with AT and later then I'd get a Das Keyboard Professional. Those are as close to the IBM clicky keyboards and have a USB connector which you can hook to a PS/2 adapter to your motherboard.

These are what I would use and am using now for typing on and it's quite comfortable. It also has N-Rollover so some of the older DOS games where you are jamming keys all simultaneously it will not conflict and jam up. But you'll need to use the PS/2 port not USB for this to work.

You can find much cheaper alternatives to DOS but I always consider a good keyboard a good foundation for gaming. It doesn't have those LED night lights or any of that fancy stuff but that's not what you are paying for and most of they gimmicky keyboards are poor quality. Although I've heard the Das Keyboards stopped being made in Germany the quality is still better than common plastic ones you find these days.

Regarding laptop keyboards. They do plain suck for most gaming. Sometimes the Numeric keypad is butchered so you have the 4 arrow keys lined up or cramped somewhere. Then you need to use a USB to PS/2 dual input adapter for USB mouse and USB keyboard like the one I suggested. I hardly use the internal keyboard on a laptop unless it doesn't have enough USB ports. Usually if it has 3 USB ports or less and you need to hook an external hard drive you may end doing this. But get a laptop with at least 4 USB ports and it is unlikely you'll ever use the internal one as you will be using the external USB keyboard and USB mouse most of the time instead of the touchpad.

It's a shame but my brother wrecked two of my old Model M keyboards in anger while playing Sensible Soccer.

I just set up my old IBM Aptiva 486SX again (going to post a separate thread about that) and bought a slightly more recent IBM keyboard because I wanted one to work with my Pentium 150 Aptiva which has Windows 98 installed namely the IBM KB-8926. I did my homework and while it's rubberdomed, it's highly praised as being about the best non-mechanical IBM keyboard you can get and it IS satisfying to type on AND has Windows keys.

I paid €20 and it's in near perfect shape which is a good deal I think.

But yeah, if you don't want to shell out a small fortune for a Model M (and finding one in your keyboard layout of choice only makes it harder and more expensive I find), don't be afraid to look for alternatives like I did.

WTF is up with that layout though?

The Ñ suggests Spanish, but my MS-DOS 5.0 manual says the layout is for Latin America.

K1n9_Duk3 wrote:

The Ñ suggests Spanish, but my MS-DOS 5.0 manual says the layout is for Latin America.

Not to mention the upside question mark as another clue. 😕

Latin American layout.

firage wrote:

I use an old capacitive KeyTronic. It's the mushiest feel ever, but it's quiet and NKRO.

I actually passed on a KeyTronic AT keyboard (a Model M clone of some fashion) at a local thrift store today because I thought it felt too mushy... maybe its worth a trip back...

Here are the conclusions I personally arrived to (naturally, your opinion may differ):

1. A mechanical keyboard is a nice and fancy thing, but is not actually "required" for almost anything. Mechanical keyboard are said to improve typing experience greatly, which is true if you compare them to low-end rubber domes, but good rubber domes (like the aforementioned IBM KB-8926, or its later IBM/Lenovo incarnations) already feel great and the difference it minimal.
2. For single-player gaming on a keyboard, even a basic 3KRO keyboard will suffice most of the time. Heck, some keyboard are technically only 2KRO, and still suffice, because most 3-key combinations one actually might need work without jamming. This is something that most rubber domes can handle. Some don't, which just makes them bad keyboards; not all rubber domes are bad.
3. For 2-player keyboard gaming, yeah, you probably want a 6KRO/NKRO keyboard and only mechanicals can get you there.
4. The good thing about mechanicals is that fundamentally they are positioned as higher-end products, and command a higher base price, which means that they will also typically have other advantages - good layout, extra keys, backlighting, solid build, etc, which sometimes together provide for a bigger advantage than the mechanical nature of the keys themselves.
5. Mechanical keyboard tend to be louder than rubber domes in most cases; I think the Blue Cherry MX switches are the most quiet ones.

As for an "old keyboard" - that's pretty much like any other aspect of the "retro scene". You might want one because its an authentic archaeological exhibit, not because it's actually better in any way (typically it isn't). Modern mechanical switch technologies are better than the old ones, and the keyboard have more features. Even the Windows key is useful. It can be an annoyance when playing games in Windows, since it will throw you out of the game, and that's why many gamer-oriented keyboard have a hardware switch to temporary disable the Windows keys. If your keyboard does not have one, there are simple software utilities that can do so.

RJDog wrote:

firage wrote:

I use an old capacitive KeyTronic. It's the mushiest feel ever, but it's quiet and NKRO.

I actually passed on a KeyTronic AT keyboard (a Model M clone of some fashion) at a local thrift store today because I thought it felt too mushy... maybe its worth a trip back...

They're meant to be that way, but the foam pads in the construction also degrade over time, which may affect the feel. If you're coming across one untested, there's no guarantee all the keys still even register. Most of these 25-30 year old keyboards are due for new foam soon.

dr_st wrote:

Here are the conclusions I personally arrived to (naturally, your opinion may differ): […]
Show full quote

Here are the conclusions I personally arrived to (naturally, your opinion may differ):

1. A mechanical keyboard is a nice and fancy thing, but is not actually "required" for almost anything. Mechanical keyboard are said to improve typing experience greatly, which is true if you compare them to low-end rubber domes, but good rubber domes (like the aforementioned IBM KB-8926, or its later IBM/Lenovo incarnations) already feel great and the difference it minimal.
2. For single-player gaming on a keyboard, even a basic 3KRO keyboard will suffice most of the time. Heck, some keyboard are technically only 2KRO, and still suffice, because most 3-key combinations one actually might need work without jamming. This is something that most rubber domes can handle. Some don't, which just makes them bad keyboards; not all rubber domes are bad.
3. For 2-player keyboard gaming, yeah, you probably want a 6KRO/NKRO keyboard and only mechanicals can get you there.
4. The good thing about mechanicals is that fundamentally they are positioned as higher-end products, and command a higher base price, which means that they will also typically have other advantages - good layout, extra keys, backlighting, solid build, etc, which sometimes together provide for a bigger advantage than the mechanical nature of the keys themselves.
5. Mechanical keyboard tend to be louder than rubber domes in most cases; I think the Blue Cherry MX switches are the most quiet ones.

As for an "old keyboard" - that's pretty much like any other aspect of the "retro scene". You might want one because its an authentic archaeological exhibit, not because it's actually better in any way (typically it isn't). Modern mechanical switch technologies are better than the old ones, and the keyboard have more features. Even the Windows key is useful. It can be an annoyance when playing games in Windows, since it will throw you out of the game, and that's why many gamer-oriented keyboard have a hardware switch to temporary disable the Windows keys. If your keyboard does not have one, there are simple software utilities that can do so.

Good points. You can add that they are sturdier and much heavier. Although a cheap PS/2 keyboard for $10 at Target I found very lightweight but poor for N-rollover type games such as Mortal Kombat 2. It's much harder to perform the combos and in some cases the combos will not work or the reaction time is slower.

As for that Windows Key I actually found it an annoyance when it first came out. Back when playing Warcraft 2 Battle.NET I would frequently hit that Windows button by accident when going for the ALT key. Depending how fast your system was this could cost you 10-20 seconds Alt-tabbing back into the game. This felt like an eternity on a 90MHz Packard Bell.

I have a stash of old keyboards around for a few reasons.

1. I like a clicky keyboard. Most of the 90's I used a Northgate 102 on my main machines. After 2000 I switched to IBM Model M's as my main keyboard for work and play (USB to PS/2 adapters for my KVMs).

2. For old machines I tend to like using period correct keyboards so that means AT keyboards without the Windows keys. I even keep some XT ones around (Model F for my 5150).

3. Most modern keyboards are mushy junk.

One of the best things I did a few years back when I visited the local (now defunct) recycler was snag all the IBM Model M keyboards that came though, and all the decent AT keyboards. I should have enough to last forever. I should have saved the Unicomp (I think that's the company that IBM spun off their keyboard making division) keyboards too but they were more mushy.

I scored this old AT Philips keyboard for my 486 PC.
Its very well built, smooth and confortable. Uses rubber inside so it does not make a clicky noise, and does look very similar to IBM model M from the outside.

I prefer older keyboards. The only modern keyboard I really like is my Razor Black Widow that's on my Dell dual Xeon system. I do like my modern Logitech wireless as well and use it as the "quiet" option at night.

For the retro-systems, I have 2 rubber-domes for the night time, one was a new-old-stock AT Win95 keyboard, the other is the NEC 104 key PS/2 from the REady 9522.

But my preference is for mechanical keyboards which I have several including a Model "M", a Chicony and a BTC with Alps switches, one of those NEC AT keyboards that weighs as much as a model M, types like a Northgate, and apparently LGR had one on his woodgrain 486 for awhile.

Short answer: Yes