VOGONS


Reply 1020 of 1212, by Sphere478

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idk why you are duck duck going the version number printed in the middle of the pcb

I’m not deleting previous uploads. That isn’t how versioning works. If we need to track a problem or retrieve earlier elements those can still be useful.

It may just be easiest for you to take what I have uploaded and make a fork of it into what you want yourself. You can make a version you are happy with.

I’m canceling pi.0 as it is tainted by a previous commitment. I may begin working on a different version IDK. Kinda interested to hear community thoughts on what I should do here. As I have been put in a odd situation here. It is quite obvious I never wanted a license on my work and a inch given has turned into a mile taken. Maybe I should take my leave.

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 1021 of 1212, by pshipkov

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If this was a VCS where we can clearly see and track versions - it makes sense to keeping all iterations in place.
But this is a mere messy thread.
I guess that's what prompted Feipoa to suggest keeping the most recent (complete, best) design only.

retro bits and bytes

Reply 1022 of 1212, by ChrisXF

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If it was me, I'd upload everything into a GitHub (or something similar) and have versioning. I think Sphere is correct: being able to look back at even broken/buggy versions can be immensely helpful at times.

As for licencing details: pointless waste of time. The time spent discussing it is more valuable than anything some instantly ignorable words attached to a project like this will ever be, imho.

Reply 1023 of 1212, by feipoa

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rasz_pl wrote on 2023-07-12, 04:21:
feipoa wrote on 2023-07-12, 03:32:

Ideally, with the next release upload, all other revisions of the gerbers would be removed, not just because it would clash with licensing, but because you'd get a variety of individuals using outdated gerbers, generating confusion.

Older versions were already of a working design, what confusion would there be? I really dont understand that push for non-commercial for something with a whole world wide market for maybe 10 more units unless someone actively advertises it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_hardware

A few people messaged me about where's the latest version, not finding it, and grabbing the wrong files. I've seen other projects where people just update the original post with the latest variant to avoid such confusion.

Sphere478 wrote on 2023-07-12, 10:37:

I’m not deleting previous uploads. That isn’t how versioning works. If we need to track a problem or retrieve earlier elements those can still be useful.

As another poster suggested it may be more useful to keep them all together, and ideally dated, so everyone would know what version is the lastest.

Sphere478 wrote on 2023-07-12, 10:37:

idk why you are duck duck going the version number printed in the middle of the pcb

Sphere478 wrote on 2023-07-10, 21:22:

Feiopa, I will respect your wishes and use a license for pi.0

Because in my mind "license for pi.0" must have been some form of licensing scheme I wasn't familiar with. It never occurred to me that you meant the "vπ.0" silk-screened on the PCB; I've never paid any attention to this. Thus, the "license for pi.0" internet search took me to some Raspberry Pi Zero licensing page and I figured you were thinking to mimic this licence, which in turn was CC-BY-ND. NC and ND being visually close, I thought you had mixed up CC-BY-NC with CC-BY-ND. And the text that followed stemmed from this.

Sphere478 wrote on 2023-07-12, 10:37:

I’m canceling pi.0 as it is tainted by a previous commitment.

I don't follow the logic. A previous commitment would have existed before the intention to release the next PCB variant. If this commitment is to result in some form of commercialisation for profit, please do it on someone else's dime next time.

Sphere478 wrote on 2023-07-12, 10:37:

an inch given has turned into a mile taken. Maybe I should take my leave.

What inch was given for which a mile was taken? I expressed my point of view and it did not become broader from my first comment on the subject, namely my view of CC-BY-NC-4.0 stayed as CC-BY-NC-4.0. The remainder of the wording in the previous post was subsequently in reply to your post:

Sphere478 wrote on 2023-07-10, 21:22:

Upload the license file you wish me to include with the release. And I will do so, along with your guide. Also please specify which option I should select on vogons drop down

I don't have a lot of time right now to continue spinning the wheel. This matter is fairly trivial. Do what your gut tells you to do, then ideally you'd have no regrets, and nobody else to blame. As I've expressed my point of view, I cannot have any regrets for not having expressed myself. My grounding for this view would encompass a much larger topic and is not well fitted for discussion here.

If anyone is interested in the donation option mentioned earlier, please let me know; if there's sufficient interest, I may pursue it once the kids are back in school. To be clear, the donation would not go to me, but would go directly to the charity. The money and time I put into hobbyist activities are not for sale.

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 1024 of 1212, by Sphere478

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I’m no longer participating in the development in this thread. I’ll still be around though, may even buy one off ya.

All the progress saves are dated in their respective posts.

The commitment I referenced was telling you I would license pi.0

In order to not break that promise, I’m just not going to work on pi.0 anymore. I may make my own future version eventually or something, but I don’t currently have motivation or immediate intent. And there doesn’t seem to be a need.

This was fun, then it got weird, and is now no longer fun.

Make your own fork. We will go our separate ways with this project. No hard feelings. You just want to take it a direction I don’t want to take it. Feel free to use my uploads for your fork, and do with it as you like.

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 1025 of 1212, by Beerfloat

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So hey, sorry to see differences of opinion emerging from this here project...
but for the longest time it looked really promising and I've been reading through pretty much all of it.
And so I was wondering, if I wanted to build one of these alpha/beta or whatever one wants to call the latest version, which gerber file would be the best, and is there something like a BOM ready somewhere?

Thanks in advance!

Reply 1026 of 1212, by Sphere478

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Beerfloat wrote on 2023-08-14, 19:22:
So hey, sorry to see differences of opinion emerging from this here project... but for the longest time it looked really promisi […]
Show full quote

So hey, sorry to see differences of opinion emerging from this here project...
but for the longest time it looked really promising and I've been reading through pretty much all of it.
And so I was wondering, if I wanted to build one of these alpha/beta or whatever one wants to call the latest version, which gerber file would be the best, and is there something like a BOM ready somewhere?

Thanks in advance!

Re: Custom interposer module for TI486SXL2-66 PGA168 to PGA132 - HELP!

This is the one I ordered, built, and tested. It is the last version I uploaded. It has the round pads. Scroll to previous upload if you want D pads.

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 1027 of 1212, by Beerfloat

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Sphere478 wrote on 2023-08-14, 19:50:
Beerfloat wrote on 2023-08-14, 19:22:
So hey, sorry to see differences of opinion emerging from this here project... but for the longest time it looked really promisi […]
Show full quote

So hey, sorry to see differences of opinion emerging from this here project...
but for the longest time it looked really promising and I've been reading through pretty much all of it.
And so I was wondering, if I wanted to build one of these alpha/beta or whatever one wants to call the latest version, which gerber file would be the best, and is there something like a BOM ready somewhere?

Thanks in advance!

Re: Custom interposer module for TI486SXL2-66 PGA168 to PGA132 - HELP!

This is the one I ordered, built, and tested. It is the last version I uploaded. It has the round pads. Scroll to previous upload if you want D pads.

Thanks Sphere478, much appreciated

Reply 1029 of 1212, by Beerfloat

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ChrisXF wrote on 2023-08-14, 20:15:

Make sure you're sitting down before you see how much the BOM for this project adds up to!

Yeah I still have to figure out the surface mount components, haha. Thanks for the reminder..

But jlcpcb is running a $2 promo for 5 pieces of green 6 layers at the moment so total cost including slow 8-day shipping came out to only $3.44..
That part at least is amazing!

TI486SXL2-G66-GA on the way too. Because let's do this..!

Reply 1030 of 1212, by rasz_pl

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ChrisXF wrote on 2023-08-14, 20:15:

Make sure you're sitting down before you see how much the BOM for this project adds up to!

? its something like $10

Open Source AT&T Globalyst/NCR/FIC 486-GAC-2 proprietary Cache Module reproduction

Reply 1032 of 1212, by ChrisXF

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Right, I sort of gave up a bit on Mouser... Those regulators are like 6$ alone 🤣

Here's my SUPER HIGH QUALITY CHINA list instead:

Fan: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005453331843.html
Pin Strips: https://www.ebay.com/itm/134445310260
Regulator: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004487003686.html
Trimmer: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005171312713.html
Capacitors (100nf): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004555322632.html

The rest of the components I already had kicking around, sorry, but just search on Ali you'll probably find everything else you might need.

Next to find the PGA sockets somewhere at a decent price. I wonder if I'd have any luck building one from female pin headers much in the same way the male pins on the bottom are constructed?

Reply 1033 of 1212, by maxtherabbit

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ChrisXF wrote on 2023-08-15, 16:04:
Right, I sort of gave up a bit on Mouser... Those regulators are like 6$ alone lol […]
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Right, I sort of gave up a bit on Mouser... Those regulators are like 6$ alone 🤣

Here's my SUPER HIGH QUALITY CHINA list instead:

Fan: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005453331843.html
Pin Strips: https://www.ebay.com/itm/134445310260
Regulator: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004487003686.html
Trimmer: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005171312713.html
Capacitors (100nf): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004555322632.html

The rest of the components I already had kicking around, sorry, but just search on Ali you'll probably find everything else you might need.

Next to find the PGA sockets somewhere at a decent price. I wonder if I'd have any luck building one from female pin headers much in the same way the male pins on the bottom are constructed?

you sure you're actually saving money when purchasing from all these different vendors and paying shipping every time? particularly if you only want to build one unit...

Reply 1034 of 1212, by H3nrik V!

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maxtherabbit wrote on 2023-08-16, 04:55:
ChrisXF wrote on 2023-08-15, 16:04:
Right, I sort of gave up a bit on Mouser... Those regulators are like 6$ alone lol […]
Show full quote

Right, I sort of gave up a bit on Mouser... Those regulators are like 6$ alone 🤣

Here's my SUPER HIGH QUALITY CHINA list instead:

Fan: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005453331843.html
Pin Strips: https://www.ebay.com/itm/134445310260
Regulator: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004487003686.html
Trimmer: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005171312713.html
Capacitors (100nf): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004555322632.html

The rest of the components I already had kicking around, sorry, but just search on Ali you'll probably find everything else you might need.

Next to find the PGA sockets somewhere at a decent price. I wonder if I'd have any luck building one from female pin headers much in the same way the male pins on the bottom are constructed?

you sure you're actually saving money when purchasing from all these different vendors and paying shipping every time? particularly if you only want to build one unit...

Sometimes, it's a thing about principle rather than price 🤣

Please use the "quote" option if asking questions to what I write - it will really up the chances of me noticing 😀

Reply 1035 of 1212, by ChrisXF

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I'll build all five: I have five PCBs. 😁

But yes, the overall BOM even with a bunch of seperate shipping to Canada (free shipping on most of those links also, eh?) came to the same price as JUST five regulators from Mouser.

I know, it's nuts!

Of course with a bit of work you can mail the various sellers and probably get a lot of these parts from one seller with free shipping and a discount. When I built my NuXT I had a seller who basically went shopping to the Chenzen market for me and got a bunch of the parts for pennies on the dollar.

The downside of course is I have to wait longer for the stuff to come in, and there's always the chance I get sent a portable washing machine instead of regulators. 🤣 The joys of AliExpress!

But h3nrik is correct to a large degree: I spent more time building the BOM this way for sure, but I don't like to reward companies with high pricing and I'll do a bit of legwork finding another supplier, especially for a project like this that's just a hobby.

Reply 1036 of 1212, by iyatemu

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ChrisXF wrote on 2023-08-16, 09:07:

I don't like to reward companies with high pricing and I'll do a bit of legwork finding another supplier, especially for a project like this that's just a hobby.

I'd like to reward myself with in-spec products, especially when I'm relying on them keeping a 30 year old CPU running. Not to mention they'll get to me in three days rather than months. For me it seems like the central issue is the country you live in (shipping) over the cost of the parts themselves. Shipping from the US to Canada (especially express) is expensive to the point that I consider it robbery.

I'd only ever advocate getting parts from Aliexpress if it's totally impossible to get them amywhere else, like old memory controllers or ASICs or sound chips. They're usually the sources for those that then get sanded and relabeled by the ebay distributors. I'm never getting Chinese caps, though.

Reply 1037 of 1212, by ChrisXF

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No, that's cool: you can spend the 50% extra for the 'in spec parts', that's your choice and I do the same for things I'm in a hurry for or parts like capacitors.

Personally for this sort of thing, I'll run a burn in on the regulators for 24hrs before setting them loose on actual hardware and ohm out the resistors if their value is critical: first or second source that's good practice anyways. I'll then take the cash saved and spend it on my family, or save it for retirement. I wouldn't do that for a professional design like a medical pacemaker, but for my spare time hobby? Sure! 😀

30 year old CPUs tend to have much looser tolerances on what they'll accept in the way of spec drift than modern ones, btw. Compare an old regulators datasheet to a modern one and even a slightly out of spec modern regulator is way better than the one the cpu was designed to use originally. Look at the ESR on the caps of an older AT supply that runs great and imagine how they would fair in a modern PSU?

Mouser isn't too bad with the shipping to Canada (8bucks for a small package) but you're right: shipping here is generally robbery. Then there's the extortion of 'brokerage fees': the postman turns up with your $40 of parts and then demands $50 because the carrier had to automatically fill out a form for you? Ooft. One other good thing about the Chinese ordering: if the parts are faulty 99% of the time they refund and job done. In country and USA suppliers often ask you to send the parts back: more time and expense.

I've had great luck with AliExpress for components (except as you say capacitors: that's a hard no), but I only really use a handful of suppliers there and you're right it's a risk, and you can wait a long while for the parts to appear.

I've personally NOT had good luck with older chips from Ali: many of them are just remarked junk: like the time I bought a Commodore SID that turned out to be a re-labelled EPROM 🤣 It didn't sound too good, put it that way.

Anyways, I'm drifting us off topic, beg pardon! 😀

Reply 1038 of 1212, by Beerfloat

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ChrisXF wrote on 2023-08-15, 16:04:
Right, I sort of gave up a bit on Mouser... Those regulators are like 6$ alone lol […]
Show full quote

Right, I sort of gave up a bit on Mouser... Those regulators are like 6$ alone 🤣

Here's my SUPER HIGH QUALITY CHINA list instead:

Fan: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005453331843.html
Pin Strips: https://www.ebay.com/itm/134445310260
Regulator: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004487003686.html
Trimmer: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005171312713.html
Capacitors (100nf): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004555322632.html

The rest of the components I already had kicking around, sorry, but just search on Ali you'll probably find everything else you might need.

Next to find the PGA sockets somewhere at a decent price. I wonder if I'd have any luck building one from female pin headers much in the same way the male pins on the bottom are constructed?

The list was very helpful, thanks.

As this is just a one-off project for me (or well, five-off really) I figure I would just go with ready-made PGA168 females like these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/393079893830?hash=it … ABk9SR8yVofu_Yg
2 for $6.81 is not great, not terrible but ymmv.

I ordered the pin strips you linked but was also looking at whether it's worth getting PGA132 adapter ready-made as a terminal type like this:
https://www.mpe-connector.de/en/products/pga- … 1-107-M1NFX-XS0
Not sure about the ideal contact type pin thickness-wise.

The rest I just got from RS. About $50 including delivery for everything including some 0805 resistors.
RS Stock No. Qty Unit Price Goods Value Description
205-3267 150 KEMET, 0603 (1608M) 100nF Multilayer Ceramic Capacitor MLCC 16V dc 10% , SMD C0603X104K4RACTU
521-9647 6 10kΩ, Through Hole Trimmer Potentiometer 0.5W Top Adjust Bourns, 3296

Reply 1039 of 1212, by Beerfloat

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ChrisXF wrote on 2023-08-16, 12:53:

I've personally NOT had good luck with older chips from Ali: many of them are just remarked junk: like the time I bought a Commodore SID that turned out to be a re-labelled EPROM 🤣 It didn't sound too good, put it that way.

Been there, received 5x supposed Motorola MC68882 FPUs from Ali that were I don't even know what.
They didn't even fit properly in the PLCC68 socket, legs came off when trying to get them back out.