VOGONS


First post, by EdmondDantes

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So I've spoken of my "Mazinkaiser" before. In case you never saw those topics, here's what it currently has in it:

It's 700mhz AMD chip (I'm not sure which line, I think either Duron or Thunderbird)
a pair of 256mb Kingston pc133 ram chips
The motherboard (an Epox-8KTA) has like six PCI slots, one AGP (I think) slot, and one ISA slot.
The ISA slot has a Soundblaster 16 (pretty sure its a PnP edition)
My video card is a Voodoo 3 2000, PCI slot.

Now, like I said I'm thinking of making modifications but I'm not sure how worthwhile or dangerous they might be. Mazinkaiser's basic function is to handle pretty much any Windows 98(SE) game that doesn't require higher than DirectX 8 (after recent events I'm wary about trying DirectX 9 on Win98se again), as well as give me my choice of playing old DOS games in either a pure environment or Dosbox. So far the only game I've seen outright refuse to work outside of Dosbox is Alien Logic: Skyrealms of Jorune, which I think has the same "it absolutely requires an Intel Pentium CPU" problem that Wrath of Earth does, so there's no fixing that.

Anyway... first thing I'm wondering is if I should replace the sound card with an AWE64. Would I get any noticable improvement in either DOS or Windows? Some topics I've read seem to indicate that the AWE32 and AWE64 are basically just SB16s with more stuff attached and I've even heard rumblings that you can add memory or something to the SB16 to give it all the features the later cards have, though I'm not sure if that's true or not. The only actual technical issue I have is that in FPS games I feel like I hear the left speaker more clearly than I do the right, though that might be an issue with the speakers or even my own ears and nothing to do with the card.

(By the way, I have a question... how come when I'm using Dosbox, I can set a game--like Monkey Island or Wing Commnder--to use Roland sound and actually get Roland quality music? That seems just weird that an SB16 could even reproduce the sounds of a contemporary competitor).

Secondly I'm wondering if I should install a second PCI video card? I recently watched Phil's Computer Labs' video on the Voodoo 3 and while he praised the card he also showed some areas where its contemporaries outshone it. Also recently I tried to play The Longest Journey and its setup told me that Voodoo 3 does not support hardware acceleration with 32-bit colors. To be honest I don't see a lot of difference between hardware-rendered 16-bit and software-rendered 32-bit, but still it makes me wonder if I might be missing out on features. Or there's the opposite end of the spectrum--I can't remember names off the top of my head (perhaps Need for Speed 3: Hot Pursuit) but I've seen games claim they can support Voodoo 1 or 2 which I thought would mean they can do Voodoo 3 as well but then either they can't, or they can only do it in Direct3D mode or something like that. It's been awhile since I tested this so I may be remembering the circumstances wrong, but anyway I'm trying to ask if getting multiple video cards and plugging them in would give me the best of every world?

Finally... is there a way to make a ps/2 optical mouse work in a DB9 port? I had adapters that I got on ebay but the mouse would only light up for a brief moment. I'm guessing its because they can't draw power from those kinds of port. How can I fix that? (The actual ps/2 mouse port on the motherboard came loose, and I'm afraid if I mess with a soldering iron I may kill the motherboard so I'd prefer an alternative... though I've also heard you can add more ps/2 ports using PCI cards).

All info/suggestions/warnings are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Reply 1 of 6, by Jepael

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EdmondDantes wrote:

Anyway... first thing I'm wondering is if I should replace the sound card with an AWE64. Would I get any noticable improvement in either DOS or Windows? Some topics I've read seem to indicate that the AWE32 and AWE64 are basically just SB16s with more stuff attached and I've even heard rumblings that you can add memory or something to the SB16 to give it all the features the later cards have, though I'm not sure if that's true or not. The only actual technical issue I have is that in FPS games I feel like I hear the left speaker more clearly than I do the right, though that might be an issue with the speakers or even my own ears and nothing to do with the card.

AWE64 is like SB16 with an integrated wavetable sound module onboard. You can expand your SB16 with a wavetable sound module (there are several original ones and there are new Dreamblaster boards) if it has the wavetable module header, but SB16 can't be expanded with just memory (some AWE cards can accept memory to load your own instruments). A wavetable module plays MIDI data and it's kind of like having external Roland sound module connected but it's built in.

EdmondDantes wrote:

(By the way, I have a question... how come when I'm using Dosbox, I can set a game--like Monkey Island or Wing Commnder--to use Roland sound and actually get Roland quality music? That seems just weird that an SB16 could even reproduce the sounds of a contemporary competitor).

DosBox comes with software called Munt which provides Roland emulation. It gives you virtual sound module, it's using your CPU to generate the sounds like the physical Roland would play. This sound is played back from any sound card you have.

EdmondDantes wrote:

Or there's the opposite end of the spectrum--I can't remember names off the top of my head (perhaps Need for Speed 3: Hot Pursuit) but I've seen games claim they can support Voodoo 1 or 2 which I thought would mean they can do Voodoo 3 as well but then either they can't, or they can only do it in Direct3D mode or something like that.

Voodoo1&2 are only 3D accelerators and I recall not DirectX compatible, so DOS games and Windows games mostly used these with their own drivers if they used Voodoo1&2 cards. You still need a regular video card in addition to Voodoo1&2 cards, and the Voodoo1&2 card would be connected between your normal video card and monitor, so the extra loop cable can sometimes affect the video quality. It does not hurt to try if you come across Voodoo1 or 2 card, but take note which games even can use them.

EdmondDantes wrote:

Finally... is there a way to make a ps/2 optical mouse work in a DB9 port?

Yes, some mice are themselves dual protocol ones and can be used in either PS/2 or DB9 port with just an adapter. Those mice that aren't you need a device that will convert PS/2 mouse data to serial mouse data. Such hobby projects do exist, also here on Vogons.

Reply 2 of 6, by chinny22

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Jepael has summed it up pretty well.
In really, really, simple terms AWE32/64 is a SB16 with enhanced midi, I don't mind it but its not highly regarded vs other Midi cards such as Yamaha, Roland, dreamblaster.
You can find youtube videos with various recordings to hear the difference.

Win9x gaming has 2 main graphics standards, Glide and Direct3D
Your Voodoo 3 is great card for Glide, as well as been very good at DOS gaming
Direct3D was where Nividia dominated back then, so depends on which games you play.

Need fro speed for example is a glide game, and you are correct it doesn't support voodoo 3 out of the box, but only because the game was realesed before the card so doesn't detect it. A quick hack basically patches the game to support newer cards.

Quick Google of Epox-8KTA does show a AGP slot. I know Slot A motherboards have buggy AGP, Someone will know better if this is still the case for you.
Even then some low power AGP cards will still work, which will probably be easier then getting 2 PCI cards working together.
I know Slot A AGP motherboards are buggy?

If it was me, I would add a nicer soundcard for Windows, SBlive thought to Audigy 2 ZS. AWE 64 is nice card for dos gaming but bit basic/noisy for later Windows games

Reply 3 of 6, by Tetrium

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chinny22 wrote:
Quick Google of Epox-8KTA does show a AGP slot. I know Slot A motherboards have buggy AGP, Someone will know better if this is s […]
Show full quote

Quick Google of Epox-8KTA does show a AGP slot. I know Slot A motherboards have buggy AGP, Someone will know better if this is still the case for you.
Even then some low power AGP cards will still work, which will probably be easier then getting 2 PCI cards working together.
I know Slot A AGP motherboards are buggy?

If it was me, I would add a nicer soundcard for Windows, SBlive thought to Audigy 2 ZS. AWE 64 is nice card for dos gaming but bit basic/noisy for later Windows games

Wouldn't 3DFX kinda solve these issues in a similar way how it solved potential problems on ss7 AGP boards?

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My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
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Reply 4 of 6, by chinny22

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Tetrium wrote:
chinny22 wrote:
Quick Google of Epox-8KTA does show a AGP slot. I know Slot A motherboards have buggy AGP, Someone will know better if this is s […]
Show full quote

Quick Google of Epox-8KTA does show a AGP slot. I know Slot A motherboards have buggy AGP, Someone will know better if this is still the case for you.
Even then some low power AGP cards will still work, which will probably be easier then getting 2 PCI cards working together.
I know Slot A AGP motherboards are buggy?

If it was me, I would add a nicer soundcard for Windows, SBlive thought to Audigy 2 ZS. AWE 64 is nice card for dos gaming but bit basic/noisy for later Windows games

Wouldn't 3DFX kinda solve these issues in a similar way how it solved potential problems on ss7 AGP boards?

It would, But OP's already got a PCI V3 2000

Reply 5 of 6, by EdmondDantes

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Jepael wrote:

Yes, some mice are themselves dual protocol ones and can be used in either PS/2 or DB9 port with just an adapter. Those mice that aren't you need a device that will convert PS/2 mouse data to serial mouse data. Such hobby projects do exist, also here on Vogons.

I think I saw the topic about that, but I can't find it again... wanted to look at the particulars and if they're purchasable yet, because I'd really like to go back to using a real optical mouse (and just one mouse for both dos and windows) again.

@Tetrium... what do you mean about how 3dfx solved things?

@Chinny - I might do that too, but will it work without mucking things up? Is it a simple issue of just disabling the SB16 when in windows? Also do I have to have a different set of speakers plugged into both cards?

While I'm at it, thinking back to what I mentioned about how I think I hear better through the left, how can I test that and if it turns out to be objectively true, how do I fix it? Just buy different speakers?

Reply 6 of 6, by EdmondDantes

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So, I've got one more thing I'd like to ask:

I'm thinking I may get an expert to fix the ps/2 ports on the motherboard, but there's still the danger of them just going bad again, so I'm wondering how I can prevent that? Would it be a good idea to get one of those KVM switch thingies even though I (at the moment) only have one PC, since the KVM is replacable and ports on the motherboard really aren't?