Wow, that seems a poor showing for that CPU if you mean original Quake. It was made for mid-range Pentium.

Nothing obvious IMO, so you'd have to isolate things 1 by 1.
I would try video card first but you said you tried that...
Make sure all the CPU caches are OK. Run some benchmarks.

Well I tried swapping out the ram with a different stick of 128MB PC133 SDRAM and a 128MB PC100. Still nothing. Turned off AGP boost mode. Nothing. Reset CPU to 100 with a multiplier of 4 on the motherboard. Quake benchmark went from 20 fps to 24 fps (640x480). Quake benchmark at 360x480 is a whopping 30fps. Something is seriously wrong. I'm tempted to get a different CPU, this thing seems to be crap somehow.

Here are my speedsys readings.

CPU is in V86 mode: Yes
Processor : AMD K6(tm)III+ 400 MHz
Frequency via TSC : 400.91 MHz
External clock : 100.23 MHz x 4.0
CPUID (TFMS) : 05D0 Codename: Sharptooth(0.18um)
Feature : 008021BFh MMX(tm):Yes, IA SSE:No, IA SSE2:No
Extended CPUID : 06D0
CPU Name String : AMD-K6(tm)-III Processor
Extended Feature : C08029BFh 3DNow!(tm):Yes, 3DNow! Extensions:Yes
L1 Cache size : 64 KB
L2 Cache size : 256 KB
Write Allocate : Enabled
CPU speed index : 430.58

Total memory size : 128 MB (SDRAM PC133)
Memory Bandwidth : 224.30 MB/s

AGP Video : 3Dfx VooDoo3 GUI+3D Accelerator
Support AGP rate : 1x, 2x
Desired AGP rate : 2x
AGP Operations : Enabled
AGP SBA : Supported, Status: Enabled
AGP Fast Writes : Not Supported
AGP Status Reg. : 07000223h
AGP Command Reg. : 07000302h

VESA OEM String : 3dfx Interactive, Inc.
VESA video memory : 16384 KB (47883 KB/s)

Hard drive 0 : 1024C 255H 63S 7.84 GB
ÀÄÄÄÄÄ Model (SM): ST3160212A

Mainboard chipset : Acer ALI M1541 Aladdin V
Mainboard model : ASUS P5A
BIOS vendor : Award Modular BIOS v4.51PG (05/02/02)
OS version : Windows98(tm)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

ATA/ATAPI Device Information

IDE0ÄÂÄMasterÄ<ATAPI>Ä LITE-ON LTR-52246S
³ Firmware Revision : 6S0D
³ Maximum Transfer Mode : PIO 4, DMA 2, UDMA 2 (UltraDMA/33)
³ Selected DMA Transfer Mode : DMA 0
³ Maximum Transfer Speed : 9152 KB/s (52X)
³ Selected Transfer Speed : 9152 KB/s (52X)
³ Maximum Write Speed : 9152 KB/s (52X)
³ Selected Write Speed : 9152 KB/s (52X)
³ Cache Buffer Size : 2048 KB
³
ÀÄSlaveÄÄ<Empty>

IDE1ÄÂÄMasterÄ<ATA-7>Ä ST3160212A
³ Cylinders: 16709, Heads: 255, Sectors: 63 (128.00 GB)
³ Serial Number : 5LS3K3CV
³ Firmware Revision : 3.AAE
³ Maximum Transfer Mode : PIO 4, DMA 2, UDMA 5 (ATA-100)
³ Selected DMA Transfer Mode : DMA 2
³ Cache Buffer Size : 2048 KB
³
ÀÄSlaveÄÄ<Empty>

IDE2ÄÂÄMasterÄ<Empty>
³
ÀÄSlaveÄÄ<Empty>

IDE3ÄÂÄMasterÄ<Empty>
³
ÀÄSlaveÄÄ<Empty>
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Memory Modules Information

SMBus/i2c Host Controller : ALI M7101, I/O: E800h

<Slot 0>
ÀÄÄÄÄÄ SPD-EEPROM Checksum : OK
Memory Module Size : 128 MB
Memory Type : SDRAM PC133
Technology : 8x[16Mx8], 128 Mbit
SDRAM Cycle time (tCYC) : 7.5ns (133 MHz)
SDRAM Access time (tAC) : 5.4ns
Supported CAS# Latency : 3 (up to 133 MHz)
Supported CAS# Latency : 2 (up to 83 MHz)
Min. Row Precharge Time (tRP) : 20ns (2T up to 100 MHz)
Min. RAS to CAS Delay (tRCD) : 20ns (2T up to 100 MHz)
Min. RAS Pulse Width (tRAS) : 44ns (5T up to 114 MHz)
Label : PC133U-333-541
Manufacturer : SpecTek
Manufacturer's Part Number : Not Present
Serial Number : Not Present
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PCI/AGP Device Information [PCI 2.10, AGP 1.0 (2x)]

[00-00-0]
ÀÄÄÄÄÄ VEN_10B9, DEV_1541, REV_04, SUBSYS_154110B9
Acer Labs ALI M1541 Aladdin V/V+ AGP+PCI North Bridge
Class Code : 060000 - PCI to Host Bridge
Memory Base Range 0 : E0000000 - E3FFFFFF (64MB)
[00-01-0]
ÀÄÄÄÄÄ VEN_10B9, DEV_5243, REV_04
Acer Labs ALI M1541 PCI to AGP Bridge
Class Code : 060400 - PCI to PCI Bridge
[00-02-0]
ÀÄÄÄÄÄ VEN_10B9, DEV_5237, REV_03, SUBSYS_00000000
Acer Labs ALI M5237 OpenHCI USB Controller
Class Code : 0C0310 - USB (OHCI)
Memory Base Range 0 : DD800000 - DD800FFF (4KB)
[00-03-0]
ÀÄÄÄÄÄ VEN_10B9, DEV_7101, REV_00, SUBSYS_710110B9
Acer Labs ALI M7101 Power Management Controller
Class Code : 068000 - Other Bridge
[00-07-0]
ÀÄÄÄÄÄ VEN_10B9, DEV_1533, REV_C3, SUBSYS_00000000
Acer Labs ALI M1533 Aladdin IV/V ISA South Bridge
Class Code : 060100 - PCI to ISA Bridge
[00-11-0]
ÀÄÄÄÄÄ VEN_1102, DEV_0004, REV_03, SUBSYS_00511102
Creative Labs SB0090 Audigy Platinum Digital Audio
Class Code : 040100 - Multimedia Audio Adapter
I/O Base Range 0 : B800 - B81F (32)
[00-11-1]
ÀÄÄÄÄÄ VEN_1102, DEV_7003, REV_03, SUBSYS_00401102
Creative Labs Audigy Series Gameport Joystick
Class Code : 098000 - Other Input Device
I/O Base Range 0 : B400 - B407 (8)
[00-11-2]
ÀÄÄÄÄÄ VEN_1102, DEV_4001, REV_00, SUBSYS_00101102
Creative Labs Audigy Series Firewire Controller
Class Code : 0C0010 - OHCI FireWire Serial Bus
Memory Base Range 0 : DD000000 - DD0007FF (2KB)
Memory Base Range 1 : DC800000 - DC803FFF (16KB)
[00-15-0]
ÀÄÄÄÄÄ VEN_10B9, DEV_5229, REV_C1, SUBSYS_00000000
Acer Labs ALI M5229 EIDE Controller
Class Code : 01018A - IDE Controller
I/O Base Range 4 : B000 - B00F (16)
[01-00-0]
ÀÄÄÄÄÄ VEN_121A, DEV_0005, REV_01, SUBSYS_003A121A
3Dfx VooDoo3 GUI+3D Accelerator
Class Code : 030000 - VGA Compatible Adapter
Memory Base Range 0 : 14000000 - 15FFFFFF (32MB)
Memory Base Range 1 : 18000000 - 19FFFFFF (32MB)
I/O Base Range 2 : 3000 - 30FF (256)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

ISA PnP Device Information

Card Vendor ID Serial No ANSI ID String

1 CTL009E 11ECA368 Creative SB AWE64 Gold
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

End of report.

Given that it's a K6-III+ CPU, I have to ask:
Are you positive that you have a revision 1.04 board?
What is the Northbridge Chip Model? M1541 or M1542?

Edited to add: That is awfully high voltage for an ATZ @ 400.

My first other thought would be to remove the Audigy card. There could be a conflict of some kind.

For sure says rev 1.04 next to p5a on the motherboard. On the ALI chip it says M1541 A1 and yes the voltage is supposed to be lower but the lowest I can set the voltage on the motherboard is to 2.0v. I've read several places that that is acceptable though. I've uninstalled all sound cards but still nothing. Looking at the power management I noticed that the motherboard wants -5v but my power supply wasn't giving it. Swapped out the power supply with one that gives -5v but nothing. Double checked that the voodoo 3 wasn't the culprit and reinstalled my tnt2 pro but still essentially the same benchmarks in Quake. I'm really shooting at the hip here.

vikhr wrote:

For sure says rev 1.04 next to p5a on the motherboard. On the ALI chip it says M1541 A1 and yes the voltage is supposed to be lower but the lowest I can set the voltage on the motherboard is to 2.0v. I've read several places that that is acceptable though. I've uninstalled all sound cards but still nothing. Looking at the power management I noticed that the motherboard wants -5v but my power supply wasn't giving it. Swapped out the power supply with one that gives -5v but nothing. Double checked that the voodoo 3 wasn't the culprit and reinstalled my tnt2 pro but still essentially the same benchmarks in Quake. I'm really shooting at the hip here.

Ok. 2.0V is acceptable, but it will run hotter.

Asus Manual wrote:

CPU Slow Down: When CPU fans or system fans malfunction, the system will deactivate the CPU Clock line to decrease CPU utilizat […]
Show full quote

CPU Slow Down:
When CPU fans or system fans malfunction, the system will
deactivate the CPU Clock line to decrease CPU utilization to the speed upon
detection of system overheat. This will prevent CPU damage from system over-
heat. The CPU utilization will restore normal operations when temperature falls
below a safe level.

Check your BIOS settings for the fan monitor, if there is one.

Are you using GLQuake or the software renderer?

I don't think it's the CPU. Your SpeedSys rating is pretty close to on par with other K6-III+ benchmarks that we have on Vogons. Can you share what your dos.pif looks like when you're exiting to DOS? Does it just drop from Windows or does it actually reboot into Quake? What do your config.sys and autoexec.bat files look like?

I am suspicious of this as my own puzzling experience with my S939 W98/Late Dos machine has blazing benchmarks when I drop to DOS with the default config and "Restart in MS-DOS mode" from the start menu, but when I reboot into DOS from a pif file I get extremely slow VGA results -- PCPBench at 640x480 would go from 90 FPS down to 20FPS -- this all on a 2.4ghz Athlon 64 4000+ CPU. The problem for me is definitely something with the configuration for DOS and I suspect it is the same for you -- especially since your SpeedSys CPU rating is right on the mark.

Edit: Actually -- running the MTRRLFBE program (it's built into Phil's benchmark suite for DOS if you're using that) fixed my problem. For some reason the DOS config or setup was disabling write combining. Is yours enabled?

infiniteclouds wrote:

For some reason the DOS config or setup was disabling write combining. Is yours enabled?

More likely it didn't enable it - because write combining is off by default, if it isn't explicitly enabled by BIOS (and there may be no option for that), a windows driver or something like MTRRLFBE.

Nevertheless I think it's a good direction to start looking. Especially when plain CPU benchmarks show no anomaly.

infiniteclouds wrote:

I
Edit: Actually -- running the MTRRLFBE program (it's built into Phil's benchmark suite for DOS if you're using that) fixed my problem. For some reason the DOS config or setup was disabling write combining. Is yours enabled?

+1 or try Fastvid, you should get at a 30-50% increase in fps.

I do have the cpu fan connected to the motherboard but for some reason it doesn't read that one is connected. I've been setting it to ignore to boot through quicker. Haven't been able to get it to read the rpm. Could that be the issue? It is wanting a solid reading for the CPU and Power fan speed?
Other than that I guess I will look into MTRRLFBE but like I said Windows games like Descent 3 and Thief 1 don't run well and Thief 1 had low requirements compared to contemporary games of the time. The Voodoo 3 and TNT 2 Pro should handle them fine as well as this CPU.

I've been benchmarking a K6-3 450/100 MVP3 lately.
Quake 640x480 24.3fps
Quake 360x480 38.6fps
Quake 320x200 90fps
Results on these were the same with 3 different graphics cards, because it's software rendering under DOS.
This seems in line with your system. If this is unusually slow then I didn't know it. Software rendering at SVGA modes is slow.

If you're testing some Windows version of OpenGL accelerated Quake, then I agree it should be faster.

vikhr wrote:

Specs Asus P5A motherboard revision 1.04 bios flashed to 1011 K6III+ 400 ATZ CPU set to 2.0V 66fsb 6.0 multiplier 1 stick of 128 […]
Show full quote

Specs
Asus P5A motherboard revision 1.04 bios flashed to 1011
K6III+ 400 ATZ CPU set to 2.0V 66fsb 6.0 multiplier
1 stick of 128MB PC133 SDRAM
Voodoo 3 3000 using x3dfx drivers (also tried 1.04 and 1.05)
Sound Blaster AWE 64 Gold
Audigy EAX

For some reason anything not MS DOS doesn't run well. Descent 3 doesn't run well even using 640x480 especially outdoors. Thief 1 too. Quake benchmark topping out at just under 20 FPS! Not sure what is going on. I don't think it is the graphics card because the gigabyte tnt2 pro I have doesn't run either well either. Thought maybe the bios flash would do the trick but nada. Any suggestions to get this thing rockin?

Looking at the Ultimate 686 Benchmark Comparison, an AMD K6-III+ at 400 MHz scores 19.4 in software Quake at 640x480. If you are running GLQuake, then of course, the results will be significantly higher, perhaps in the 50-90 fps range. Even a Cyrix 5x86-133 with a Voodoo3 gets around 25 fps in GLQuake.

EDIT: Ran a few tests of systems I have setup
1) Cyrix MII at 300 MHz with Voodoo3 3000, GLQuake at 640x480 = 73.4 fps
2) AMD K6-III+ at 416 MHz with GF4 MX400 = 91.2 fps (used setmul to reduce the normal 6x multiplier to 5x on 83 MHz bus)

he said non dos in the first post - chipset driver? detach as many ata devices as possible? get the hd on primary master and enable dma (this is a must)
you did already try reset bios to safe defaults and then to performance defaults?

MTRRLFBE and FASTVID will not work with an AMD K6-III CPU. The first AMD chips that support the Intel compatible MTRR's are the Athlons. The K6-x has 2 non Intel compatible MTRR's for write combining feature but setting these registers requires different utilities:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_QTIadLd1w

Falcosoft wrote:

MTRRLFBE and FASTVID will not work with an AMD K6-III CPU. The first AMD chips that support the Intel compatible MTRR's are the Athlons. The K6-x has 2 non Intel compatible MTRR's for write combining feature but setting these registers requires different utilities:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_QTIadLd1w

That's a great vid by Phil, it really helped me boost my K6-III+ performance, I'll see if I can upload my own config.

Double post for the bump. Here are my settings with a K6-III+ 550 on a P5A-B (that's the baby AT version of the P5A), 128MB SDRAM, a Voodoo3 AGP and AWE32 (so, very similar setup to yours).

Autoexec.bat wrote:

@ECHO OFF GOTO %CONFIG% […]
Show full quote

@ECHO OFF
GOTO %CONFIG%

:WIN

GOTO COMMON

:DOSEMM

SET CTCM=C:\CREATIVE
SET SOUND=C:\CREATIVE
SET BLASTER=A220 I7 D1 H5 P330 E620 T6
LH C:\CREATIVE\AWEUTIL.COM /C:25 /R:30
LH C:\CREATIVE\MIXERSET.EXE /P /SE-
LH C:\DOS\Drivers\Mouse\CTM-21B4\BIN\CTM-EN.EXE
LH C:\DOS\Drivers\CDROM\MSCDEX.EXE /D:DARKCD01
LH C:\DOS\Drivers\CDROM\CDBQ\CDBQ.EXE -p1 -ds -s1200
BREAK ON
GOTO COMMON

:DOSFAST
SET CTCM=C:\CREATIVE
SET SOUND=C:\CREATIVE
SET BLASTER=A220 I7 D1 H5 P330 E620 T6
LH C:\CREATIVE\AWEUTIL.COM /C:25 /R:30
LH C:\CREATIVE\MIXERSET.EXE /P /SE-
LH C:\DOS\Drivers\Mouse\CTM-21B4\BIN\CTM-EN.EXE
LH C:\DOS\Drivers\CDROM\MSCDEX.EXE /D:DARKCD01
LH C:\DOS\Drivers\CDROM\CDBQ\CDBQ.EXE -p1 -ds -s1200
LH C:\DOS\System\K6WCX\K6WCX.EXE E6000000 128
BREAK ON
GOTO COMMON

:COMMON

LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\DOSKEY.COM
PATH C:\NC;%PATH%

IF %CONFIG%==WIN WIN

Config.sys wrote:

[MENU] MENUITEM=WIN, Start Windows 98 SE MENUITEM=DOSEMM, Start DOS+EMM386 MENUITEM=DOSFAST, Start DOS+Write Combining MENUDEFAU […]
Show full quote

[MENU]
MENUITEM=WIN, Start Windows 98 SE
MENUITEM=DOSEMM, Start DOS+EMM386
MENUITEM=DOSFAST, Start DOS+Write Combining
MENUDEFAULT=WIN,10
MENUCOLOR=7,0

[WIN]

[DOSEMM]
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM 16384 /I=B000-B7FF
DEVICE=C:\Creative\CTCM.exe /B
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\DRIVERS\CDROM\XCDROM.SYS /D:DARKCD01 /UX
REM DEVICEHIGH=C:\CREATIVE\CTSB16.SYS /UNIT=0 /WIN95 /BLASTER=A:220 I:7 D:1 H:5
REM DEVICEHIGH=C:\CREATIVE\CTMMSYS.SYS

[DOSFAST]
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF
REM DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM 16384 /I=B000-B7FF
DEVICE=C:\Creative\CTCM.exe /B
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\DRIVERS\CDROM\XCDROM.SYS /D:DARKCD01 /UX
REM DEVICEHIGH=C:\CREATIVE\CTSB16.SYS /UNIT=0 /WIN95 /BLASTER=A:220 I:7 D:1 H:5
REM DEVICEHIGH=C:\CREATIVE\CTMMSYS.SYS

[COMMON]
DOS=HIGH,UMB,AUTO
SWITCHES=/F
FILES=60
BUFFERS=20
STACKS=9,256
LASTDRIVE=F

Your Quake results are not that off to be honest. Last year, I did some tests and here's what I came up with (check the attachment). Granted, I did not have K6WCX setup at this point and it does end up helping a bit I believe. Can't be arsed to go and at the moment 😜.

I should also note that I was not running under pure DOS, but I was running version 1.08 of the Quake DOS executable under Win9x DOS Box. Hope that clarifies.

vikhr wrote:

Well I tried swapping out the ram with a different stick of 128MB PC133 SDRAM and a 128MB PC100. Still nothing. Turned off AGP boost mode. Nothing. Reset CPU to 100 with a multiplier of 4 on the motherboard. Quake benchmark went from 20 fps to 24 fps (640x480). Quake benchmark at 360x480 is a whopping 30fps. Something is seriously wrong.

wait, you are running software rendered quake at 640*480? i would say that 24fps is a great score for a k6-3-400 so don't panic.
i looked up my results and found that k6-3-300 scored 48fps, pmmx-300 scored 56fps. but that was benchmarked with native 320*200 resolution so 24fps is great for 640*480.

Yeah I didn't realize it was being rendered that way. Just redid the benchmarks and they are matching up with what you all are posting. I've never build a pc from this era so I'm not really sure what all was normal at the time. Just ran up GLHexen 2 and it runs very well. I may push those other games from the late 90's like Descent 3 and Thief to my 2002 build with the 4600TI. I really like the way they run on that machine. Thank you all!

first of all unless your on a p75 and under i would be playing or more worried about glquake performance. dos quake is like eh unless its a 486-p166 at most. my 2 cents. hell even my reg k-6 233 gets 14fps on dos quake with a voodoo rush. but why when glquake makes me happier.

I completely missed that you are trying to play at 640x480. That's the problem... That requires way better specs than what you have to get higher than 25-30fps, I think.